Mikey D
Registered
I knew thaere was something appealing about you!Hehehehe... I am a lesbian... trapped inside a man's body!
Moral Decay in our society
- Thread starter thrasherfox
- Start date
I think I sorta feel a bit sorry for ya . Althou I rarely give a fug what people's hang-ups might be . I just get the sense that you're awefully afraid . You mentioned that my head is in the sand , I'll have to dissagree with you there , I walk pretty tall , and very proud , and am always very aware as to my surroundings . I just don't seem to fear society the way you and some of your friends do .We CAN'T go with common sense because it is being bred out. And society IS on the downslide. If you don't see it your head's in the sand and that's NOT an opinion.
I just dont have the need for some Pastor/Priest/Shaman/etc
to show me the way . I can find my own way . I have typically found through my own life experiences that the churches are often filled with people who are'nt as strong as the average person . I mean mentally , and spiritully . I dont mean those who belong to some sort of religious belief will score lower on an I-Q test . I think the religions can help fill a void in a persons life. A void typically filled with family and good friends .
I find it VERY VERY egotistical and arrogant of people like yourself , too think that your way is the only way . That people praying to other gods are wasting their time .If people dont choose your god , or those who choose no religion might be part of some problem in society .
I find the attitudes of some "religious" people ....rude . I also feel that if they are stuffing any type of belief down a childs throat , before that child has had a chance to develop their own identity , and choose for themselves what ideologies they would like to uphold , I would have to call that CHILD ABUSE .
Religion WAS an exellent way of keeping the masses in line.
Problem is , people began to think for themselves . Thank god for that . hee hee hee .
I can't stand to see a picture of a supposed Jesus Christ hanging in someone's home . WHY IS HE ALWAYS PORTRAYED AS BEING A WHITE MAN ?
It's been proven without a doubt that life on earth(for homosapian type beings) began in a region that DID NOT sustain life for humans of fair skin colour . The human form first began near the Nile river . There just weren't any whitey's around . None . No honkeys . Just the black man.
How can I possibly put my faith into something that wont acknowledge that fact .
God created man in his own image...why are they always white images then ? How arrogant .
o ya , I'm caucasian in case you were wondering .
I have a question . Why is it that nobody ever runs to god on "Prom Night". Why is it that more often than not people run too , an'...."Turn Their Life Over To Jesus" after they have already horribly fugged it up. You know..... INMATES , child murderers, rapists....
If I was god , I'd tell them to fuggin' keep it . hee hee hee.
I'm sure you thumpers will come back with some awesome fits of pulpit pounding....I can hardly wait .
I find it very facinating that in countries , where the population is huge , and a very large percentage of the populas state quite succinctly that they belief in god , that the same country would have such high murder,rape,theft problems . I can only think of one country that boasts such a huge population of good "God Fearin' Folk" that has the highest(per capita) murder rate in the world .
but hey...what the fug do I know.....
"THOU SHALT NOT KILL " , unless your intended victim has been properly sighted between the cross-hairs of your M16.
hav a good 1.....if thats possible . RSD.
Wasn't directing that at you RSD... should have said "people in general" that think there's nothing wrong have their head in the sand.
Honestly, I love your ideas and am glad you voice them, AND am glad your back!! That's awesome! I'm not sure why you bring up all the stuff about about MY religion being the only way and such, I'm simply commenting on the moral decay part and the lack of baseline to measure with, and as a counter measure to it for lack of anyone else having a solution. There is ALWAYS a measure to use for comparison against, to decide whats right and wrong and what's going down hill. In the case of societal desensitization, the removeal of the baseline helps to confuse the lines, and generations later, people have no clue a baseline ever existed. I see where people thinking for themselves is taking us and it's the most pathetic thing I've ever seen.... creating fake digitized child porn, gay rights being shoved down OUR throats, government studies using brain scans to prove smoking is in your future? What kinda crap is that? That's people thinking. Yeah, I wanna be on THAT team [sarcasm 
]
So, is there any moral decay? If so, then what is the baseline to determine it actually exists, and how do you fix it? If not, this topic would have never been created.
Reading back there is a LOT of really amazing ideas and thoughts thrown in here. Yeah, this is a bike forum but Janet Jackson upset a number of people which was the root of this rant, but come on... she was wrong, took us down to a new low that future generations will NOT recover from, so she could make a buck... what's the definition of a whore again? As always it's cool we can all discuss this maturely, respecting everyone's thoughts idea's and opinions, and not taking it personally.
As for non-topic related question: why don't people run to God on Porm night? I think that is a valid question. My personal experience came from logical/scientific line of thought process and coming to grips with finding out there's things science can not explain. It was a long and deliberate road beginning with religious parents and me rebeling against their boring narrow minded religion and ended with me witnessing live, physical miracles and a TON of common sense around why people hurt themselves so badly. I've never been thru one of those tramatizing life changing experiences that some go through. Mine was all logic and reason, like Mr. Spock. The reason you HEAR about people becoming godly over some real life trama, is the very same reason the evening news shows dead bodies on TV... sensationalizm. It's much more moving and gossip worthy to talk about Mel Gibson almost throwing himself out of a window but finding God, than it is to hear about Mr. Plinkton across the street, finding God with no exciting life trama surrounding it. A trama might be what it takes to wake you [people in general] from this soul-coma designed by society to enslave your mind permently. So, people DO find God on Prom night and other boring times, ya just don't hear about it because we are trained to only seek trash, which is part of the soul-coma mentioned earlier.
"....it all happened so slowly that most men failed to realize that anything had happened at all."
*** note: no bibles were thumped in the creation of this post
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]So, is there any moral decay? If so, then what is the baseline to determine it actually exists, and how do you fix it? If not, this topic would have never been created.
Reading back there is a LOT of really amazing ideas and thoughts thrown in here. Yeah, this is a bike forum but Janet Jackson upset a number of people which was the root of this rant, but come on... she was wrong, took us down to a new low that future generations will NOT recover from, so she could make a buck... what's the definition of a whore again? As always it's cool we can all discuss this maturely, respecting everyone's thoughts idea's and opinions, and not taking it personally.
As for non-topic related question: why don't people run to God on Porm night? I think that is a valid question. My personal experience came from logical/scientific line of thought process and coming to grips with finding out there's things science can not explain. It was a long and deliberate road beginning with religious parents and me rebeling against their boring narrow minded religion and ended with me witnessing live, physical miracles and a TON of common sense around why people hurt themselves so badly. I've never been thru one of those tramatizing life changing experiences that some go through. Mine was all logic and reason, like Mr. Spock. The reason you HEAR about people becoming godly over some real life trama, is the very same reason the evening news shows dead bodies on TV... sensationalizm. It's much more moving and gossip worthy to talk about Mel Gibson almost throwing himself out of a window but finding God, than it is to hear about Mr. Plinkton across the street, finding God with no exciting life trama surrounding it. A trama might be what it takes to wake you [people in general] from this soul-coma designed by society to enslave your mind permently. So, people DO find God on Prom night and other boring times, ya just don't hear about it because we are trained to only seek trash, which is part of the soul-coma mentioned earlier.
"....it all happened so slowly that most men failed to realize that anything had happened at all."
*** note: no bibles were thumped in the creation of this post
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Reason for Edit: None given...|1077082728 -->
Mad_Otter
Registered
I'd ask you to prove this statement please.
It was mentioned in another thread, and 40+ posts later the poster could still not make a valid argument. The proof required is: a listing of all the wars of mankind throughout time and proof that over 50% of them were "spurred on in the name of religion".
Thanks!
NightStalker
Registered
Disregard, in the two hours it took me to write a decent answer, RSD pretty much summed it all up ...
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last I heard PEOPLE started wars, not God. Doesn't matter what the excuse.... religion, politics, PMS, skateboarders... whatever the war is blamed on is no real excuse for PEOPLE to war ....oddly, we're off topic again! hahahahahaa
I wouldn't get Mad Otter wound up about this, as he's a pro!
I wouldn't get Mad Otter wound up about this, as he's a pro!
You know...the original argument in this thread was that homosexuality is a major contributing factor in what some perceive as moral decay...
Those that feel it's okay to sit in judgment over a particular person or group of people because they find what those people do offensive and morally wrong should try to reel in their arrogance and not sit in judgment at all...it seems to fly in the face of what the bible preaches...I don't subscribe to those same beliefs, but if you do, how can you sit in judgment over others based on how they make you feel or what your religion says is wrong? How can you do that? Someone please answer that simple question...please...'cause I'm not getting it...
Those that feel it's okay to sit in judgment over a particular person or group of people because they find what those people do offensive and morally wrong should try to reel in their arrogance and not sit in judgment at all...it seems to fly in the face of what the bible preaches...I don't subscribe to those same beliefs, but if you do, how can you sit in judgment over others based on how they make you feel or what your religion says is wrong? How can you do that? Someone please answer that simple question...please...'cause I'm not getting it...
RSD, Just so's ya know i agree with most of your points.
btw. Jesus was of course middle eastern Jewish not white as many times portraid.
Otter, I will post but where should I begin? There's a ton of info out there just look up at any library history of war & religion... here's a sample starting with the crusades :
The Crusades—A ‘Tragic Illusion’
SOME nine hundred years ago, in 1096, the First Crusade was about to begin. If you had lived in Western Europe then, you might have witnessed large movements of men, wagons, horses, and ships. They were headed for Jerusalem, the holy city, which had been under the control of Muslims since the seventh century C.E.
That was the first of the Crusades. Many historians list eight major ones. These expeditions scarred the history of East-West relations. They were accompanied by massacres and cruelty committed in the name of God and Christ. The last major Crusade began 174 years later, in 1270.
The word “crusade†comes from the Latin word crux, which means “cross.†Members of the many expeditions sewed the symbol of the cross on their clothing.
The Causes
The declared motive for the Crusades was to take Jerusalem and the so-called holy sepulcher from the Muslims. But the causes ran deeper. Except for a few incidents, relations between the professed Christians living in the Middle East and the Muslims had been relatively calm. An important factor that led to the Crusades was the turbulent political, economic, and religious climate that prevailed in Europe.
In the 11th century, new rural lands were being given over to agriculture, in an effort to increase food production. City areas were enjoying new life. The population was growing. However, when a famine plunged large numbers of peasants into poverty, many poured into the cities, where unemployment and misery awaited them. Protests often erupted.
At the top of the social hierarchy were numerous feudal barons. These professional warlords wanted to take advantage of the political vacuum created by the breakup of Charlemagne’s empire and conquer new estates.
The church of Rome was also experiencing a period of turmoil. In 1054 it lost control of the Eastern Church. In addition, many of the clergy were being accused of immorality and of meddling in politics.
The Appeal at Clermont
In this climate the First Crusade was called by Pope Urban II. In his eyes military action to reconquer Jerusalem and Palestine would serve several purposes. It would consolidate the unity of Western Christendom and reaffirm the primacy of the Roman Church. It would provide a vent for perpetual disputes among the upper classes. In exchange for religious and, above all, economic benefits, these would put their military expertise to work for a “noble†cause, becoming the armed wing of the church.
On November 27, 1095, before a council at Clermont, France, Urban launched his appeal. The church painted a dark picture of their foes, as those deserving of divine retribution. Foucher de Chartres, a priest who took part in the First Crusade, said that the war was necessary to defend Eastern “Christians†from Muslims. An immediate remission of sins was promised for those who died on the road or in battle. The feudal lords could thus convert their fratricidal disputes into a “holy†war against the “infidels.†At that council, a cry resounded that was to become the motto of the First Crusade: “God wills it!â€
Mad_Otter
Registered
Hawaiibusa: thanks for the response and the info about the Crusades. Just a couple observations:
1) Telling me to look up information to support your argument doesn't work. I can just as easily say "less wars have been spurred on in the name of religion" and tell you to look it up. I already have looked it up, that's why I'm arguing against your statement.
2) Based on the information you give about the Crusades, it seems that the Crusades were done more for political reasons than religious (not making a judgement call, just an observation based on the proof presented). I mean, the text mentions how "professional warlords wanted to take advantage of the political vacuum created by the breakup of Charlemagne's empire..." That doesn't sound like a war that is "spurred on by religion", it sounds like warlords wanted more power and saw an easy way to get it.
3) The Crusades, even if counted amongst one of the wars that were "spurred on by religion" (which is arguable at best based on the evidence you present), it falls far, far short of the mark of 51% of all the wars over recorded history.
Please provide further proofs. Also, if you'd like to take this offline, please feel free to email (or we can start a new thread). Thanks!
WWJD: thanks for the kind words.
Everyone else: sorry for the threadjack
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1) Telling me to look up information to support your argument doesn't work. I can just as easily say "less wars have been spurred on in the name of religion" and tell you to look it up. I already have looked it up, that's why I'm arguing against your statement.
2) Based on the information you give about the Crusades, it seems that the Crusades were done more for political reasons than religious (not making a judgement call, just an observation based on the proof presented). I mean, the text mentions how "professional warlords wanted to take advantage of the political vacuum created by the breakup of Charlemagne's empire..." That doesn't sound like a war that is "spurred on by religion", it sounds like warlords wanted more power and saw an easy way to get it.
3) The Crusades, even if counted amongst one of the wars that were "spurred on by religion" (which is arguable at best based on the evidence you present), it falls far, far short of the mark of 51% of all the wars over recorded history.
Please provide further proofs. Also, if you'd like to take this offline, please feel free to email (or we can start a new thread). Thanks!
WWJD: thanks for the kind words.
Everyone else: sorry for the threadjack
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Reason for Edit: "Had to get a quote correct..."|1077123260 -->
Otter, I appreciate your points and just to clarify above is my quote, I didnt say religion has been the sole cause just heavily involved.
If you want me to pass on more info I can email you.
Thanx - Kent
OK. This thread is seriously hijacked. And I'm about to add to it. Sorry guys.
Religion doesn't in and of itself cause wars. Even the Crusades. There were many political and economic causes at work in all the Crusades. Even the Children's Crusade which served only to sell those children into slavery.
However, religion is often used as a means of justifying war or excusing it. Again the Crusades pop up as an example, though there have been others. By using religion or God as a reason to wage war, it is politically easier to convince warlords and individual fighters to risk their lives.
Now there have been cases in which religious leaders are among the first to endorse a war and to claim God is on their side. But such leaders may have been men of the cloth, but they were also political leaders who commanded fighting men. Times were different in the European Dark Ages than they are today and there was little if any separation between church and state.
It is far more accurate to say that the leaders of the day decided to consolidate their power and move potentially hostile armies against an invented foe far away; using their religion as the motivating force so that none could speak against it without being branded a heretic and losing political power.
This creates an interpretation in which it is easy to blame religion for the war. But in fairness religion was the afterthought used as justification, not the root cause. Another way of looking at it would be that the war would have happened anyway, since the issues driving it weren't inherently religious. Religion was just a convenient excuse then and now.
Religion doesn't in and of itself cause wars. Even the Crusades. There were many political and economic causes at work in all the Crusades. Even the Children's Crusade which served only to sell those children into slavery.
However, religion is often used as a means of justifying war or excusing it. Again the Crusades pop up as an example, though there have been others. By using religion or God as a reason to wage war, it is politically easier to convince warlords and individual fighters to risk their lives.
Now there have been cases in which religious leaders are among the first to endorse a war and to claim God is on their side. But such leaders may have been men of the cloth, but they were also political leaders who commanded fighting men. Times were different in the European Dark Ages than they are today and there was little if any separation between church and state.
It is far more accurate to say that the leaders of the day decided to consolidate their power and move potentially hostile armies against an invented foe far away; using their religion as the motivating force so that none could speak against it without being branded a heretic and losing political power.
This creates an interpretation in which it is easy to blame religion for the war. But in fairness religion was the afterthought used as justification, not the root cause. Another way of looking at it would be that the war would have happened anyway, since the issues driving it weren't inherently religious. Religion was just a convenient excuse then and now.
VA, I don't believe I am being judgemental or arrogant about anything here. What I am trying to point out is that when the desensatiation occurs, we will no longer be able to distinguish right and wrong... like the world of today. Physically, chemically, emotionally, sexually, mentally, and spiritually homosexuality IS wrong completely with backed up proof and examples for each instance. It's nothing to do with my religion. I will tell you SMOKING is wrong too but the bible doesn't even mention that.... yet we all know the wrongness of it even on all those same levels. That is not arrogant judgements, just truth. Homosexuality is not about love, as someone else has already mentioned, it's only about sex done backwards [pardon the pun], but with the MORAL DECAY that has already desensitived us, it's harder than ever for most to see truth through the noise. Do you think there is very little or no moral decay?
"....it all happened so slowly that most men failed to realize that anything had happened at all."
"....it all happened so slowly that most men failed to realize that anything had happened at all."
ya.....says you.
External Links Missing
I think what Va was trying to get across was that some of the verbal jousters in this forum seem to rely quite a bit on religion from time to time . I also sensed that .
But , moving right along...WWJD where do you get such interesting facts ? "Facts" is a term we will have to use loosely here . I'm sure we can all agree that Time post their facts . The Wallstreet Journal post their facts . People Magazine also post their facts . All of it doesn't add up to shid . You stated that homosexuality isn't about love . I'd have to say , how would you know . There isn't a little something in yer closet you'd like to share is there?? hint hint.
Kiddin'.
Just be carefull there dude. All of "The Greats" gave them something to hate . You know what I mean.
Hitler...the Jews.
Jim Jones....u name it.
etc etc etc....I know you get it, and I dont need to go on.
ITs a misdirection trick thats been around for years .
FEAR SELLS . IT SELLS BIGTIME . The nightly news is all about making them afraid . and so is religion .
Most ordinary upstanding people dont normally hate any particular group as much as you seem too . Yer quite a big GAY BASHER . Which for me , makes it really hard to figure you out . God does not impune any group . He supposedly loves all mankind . Thats why I find it hard to understand your fears an' hatred . Its in total contradiction of the belief in god . Am I making sense ?
The world according to you is in a huge downward spiral .
Totally understandable for you to think that . We are in fact dealing with a species that is totally illogical . My point thou....it that we are not any worse off,than we were thousands of years ago....in fact its better .
Sure...there is child porn .
years back thou....you could witness it in the street .
Sure ...there is murder .
years back thou.....the average person could have been murdered by their local villagers because they got the idea you were a witch .
Yes there is rape .
years back thou....it was nothing to witness a couple English soldiers having their way with yer sister , just cause she was Scottish . If you tried to interveene , you'd have been lucky to keep yer head .
You starting to see my point ? There will always be bad people .
You just wont seem to admit to the fact that religion has been tried....it doesn't work . Having a society run around in fear of something....anything....god,the devil,hell,etc....
is just so rediculas .
For me, I just cant handle the whole..."Holyier than thou" attitude taken by so many of the "Thumpers". not to impune you fine gentleman here on the board .
I could never be a traffic cop . How could I . I ride around everyday breaking the speeding laws of my country. How could I possibly go to work and persecute speeders for doing exactly the same thing I just did...on the way to work .
Does that make sense ?
How can you pick on one group . Fags are bad...ok, I'm with ya so far . Fags do this an' that . OK .
We as Hayabusa riders are destroying the enviroment . We ride around unessecarily everyday polluting the planet on huge displacement motorcycles . We could ride to/from work on 50 cc scooters . We dont . We ride big polluters . When the OZONE fails...its more our fault than the fags . WE , are killing our own children , and their children . Some people are over-fishing the seas....feeding their families...but ultimately killing ours . I know a fag at work who rides his bi-sick-l to work each day . He's less harmfull to the enviorment than I am . You want a cause to get behind....why not help mother earth . We constantly destroy the place in which we live . Am I making sense yet....no.....
WE ARE ALL GUILTY . Its just that some of us choose to chastise others.....and some of us don't .
END OF STORY .
I'd like to leave you with this thou...
I'll post it up in a second . Its the words of one of the all time great song writers . He was always on a mission . Especially in his last years . He was a huge fan of trying to promote WORLD PEACE . He was , in my opinion , smart ,and funny , and caring , gentle . He really had high hopes for mankind . I think he wished for all of us.....true Love , Peace, and Happiness .
He was gunned down in the street outside his home , by a man who professes to be....A MAN OF GOD .
hav a good night people.....may YOUR god...go with you.
I was done with this thread, but would like to respond to RSD with some answers. I've seen a blurred line of observation occur before and hope to correct it. I have absolutely NO HATE whatsoever for any gay people. I am not afraid of gay people. I have stated repeatedly that "homosexuality", the ACT [defined by the -ITY part], not the people themselves, is wrong. I see that's read that I am homophobic, but I am not. I oppose the actions, not the people. I don't have time to reread all my postings, but doubt I ever said HOMOSEXUALS are wrong, I always would have said HOMOSEXUAL-ITY. I am careful about that, because I am a caring person and TRY to be Christlike and really love everyone without conditions. Let me use the smoking example instead:
SMOKING is wrong. SMOKERS are not. We know smoking is wrong because of the damage it does and it is not something that generaly occurs in nature, naturally. Sure, lightening might strike a tree, light it on fire and some guy might inhale the smoke into his longs and perhaps enjoy it, but it WILL DO damage, and is not good for you. Everyone knows this. I would feel bad for that guy and the self damage he becomes addicted to, and would hope he recognizes it and gets some help. BUT that doesn't make me a smokER hater.
Same with Gays. Not NORMALLY an act of nature... you don't give birth to a homosexual, you give birth to a male or a female and that biped fits into the OPOSITE SEX biped naturally. Man can awlays twist nature... inhaling burning leaves as an example. We don't always do the best thing for us, but if it FEELS GOOD, we'll do it anyway... doesn't make it right. I've never tried Pot, PCP, Extacy, but I would bet money that my body might enjoy it, but that still doesn't make it right. [man I'm rambling on here!
] For facts of homosexuality being wrong, I am sure there's plenty available about all the differing damages to self esteem, identity, past incest, chemical imbalance etc to prove that, I have not spent enough time researching mental health sites to provide links, but you hear about it all the time even on the news if you REALLY LISTEN to it.
If religion doesn't really work, why is the 12 step program so successful? There are tons of other things religion works on too from broken homes to rebelious teenagers. I will not tell you religion is right for you, but it works great for many peeps these days. I can't apoligize for all those relgious nuts that bomb abortion clinics, and run off making people feel inferior and such, because I can't stand that crap either. They make it harder for the rest of us. But they are only human. Just like me. All I can do is my part to be a good example. I can almost guarentee, if you met me, you wouldn't feel that way around me at all. But I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND where that comes from.
But let me toss this out: me BEING a 'wwjd' religious dude can AUTOMATICALLY put people on the paranoid defensive. I've run into this over and over. Perfect example of that is drinking. Personally, I chose not to drink because a) alcohol tastes like skunk to me, and b) I observed all the damage it has done to peoples lives and decided it would be a bad path to do down [please see Logic and Reason in previous post]. That said, I NEVER, EVER EVER EVER say anything or condemn friends of mine for drinking. BUT, oddly enough, when I am around sometimes people suddenly get stricken with some kind of guilt about their drinking habits and start telling me they "don't drink much", or they're "only having one or something"... what the
?? I DON'T CARE! I can hope they aren't abusing themselves over it, but it's their life and they are allowed to do what they like... and I don't like them ANY LESS for it. So, if I'm standing on the corner minding my own business and you walk by knowing I'm a believer, suddenly get overcome with some kind of personal guilt, and end up dispising the way *I* made YOU feel, did I just make you feel inferior in some way... making me seem arrogant and judgemental? Like my drinking buddies... seems my presence and uninterest in drinking, makes them feel I am being arrogant and judgemental toward them when, in reality I am not. I'm just there to hang out with my friends, whether they smoke, drink or sleep with another guy. I have seen kind of thing happenign before, and it really is not based on my judgements of someone, as much as a persons personal feelings when comparing to a.....
wait for it....
a baseline measure of what defines moral corruption. don't read that saying *I* am perfect, remember, I am just standing there minding my own business. I don't shoot people accusing glances or shun anyone, I am very conscious to make people feel at ease with me as a knowledgable and freindly fellow homosapien. So, when I say homosexuality is wrong, believe it or not, I'm not even basing that on anything biblical. Heck, I'm not even very bible knowledged. I'm basing it on all the problems it causes, many were listed in others posts, and the natural existance of two complimentary sexes designed [or accidently evolved] to fit PERFECTLY together, and calling it wrong the way I'd call murdering wrong. And I don't hate the murderER person, just the act.
I hope that explained some of this big puzzle we call life and eases some minds about me being an over zealous religious type, or homophobic. I really would like to get away from this dialog as it sturs up very deep and potentially hurtful feelings in people that are best left off this forum, but if you want me to keep posting my INSANE ideas here, please ask and I will be happy to continue. I feel it is important for people to openly talk about things they might be uncomfortable with in the confines of friends and loved ones... even if they are online.
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SMOKING is wrong. SMOKERS are not. We know smoking is wrong because of the damage it does and it is not something that generaly occurs in nature, naturally. Sure, lightening might strike a tree, light it on fire and some guy might inhale the smoke into his longs and perhaps enjoy it, but it WILL DO damage, and is not good for you. Everyone knows this. I would feel bad for that guy and the self damage he becomes addicted to, and would hope he recognizes it and gets some help. BUT that doesn't make me a smokER hater.
Same with Gays. Not NORMALLY an act of nature... you don't give birth to a homosexual, you give birth to a male or a female and that biped fits into the OPOSITE SEX biped naturally. Man can awlays twist nature... inhaling burning leaves as an example. We don't always do the best thing for us, but if it FEELS GOOD, we'll do it anyway... doesn't make it right. I've never tried Pot, PCP, Extacy, but I would bet money that my body might enjoy it, but that still doesn't make it right. [man I'm rambling on here!
If religion doesn't really work, why is the 12 step program so successful? There are tons of other things religion works on too from broken homes to rebelious teenagers. I will not tell you religion is right for you, but it works great for many peeps these days. I can't apoligize for all those relgious nuts that bomb abortion clinics, and run off making people feel inferior and such, because I can't stand that crap either. They make it harder for the rest of us. But they are only human. Just like me. All I can do is my part to be a good example. I can almost guarentee, if you met me, you wouldn't feel that way around me at all. But I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND where that comes from.
But let me toss this out: me BEING a 'wwjd' religious dude can AUTOMATICALLY put people on the paranoid defensive. I've run into this over and over. Perfect example of that is drinking. Personally, I chose not to drink because a) alcohol tastes like skunk to me, and b) I observed all the damage it has done to peoples lives and decided it would be a bad path to do down [please see Logic and Reason in previous post]. That said, I NEVER, EVER EVER EVER say anything or condemn friends of mine for drinking. BUT, oddly enough, when I am around sometimes people suddenly get stricken with some kind of guilt about their drinking habits and start telling me they "don't drink much", or they're "only having one or something"... what the
wait for it....
a baseline measure of what defines moral corruption. don't read that saying *I* am perfect, remember, I am just standing there minding my own business. I don't shoot people accusing glances or shun anyone, I am very conscious to make people feel at ease with me as a knowledgable and freindly fellow homosapien. So, when I say homosexuality is wrong, believe it or not, I'm not even basing that on anything biblical. Heck, I'm not even very bible knowledged. I'm basing it on all the problems it causes, many were listed in others posts, and the natural existance of two complimentary sexes designed [or accidently evolved] to fit PERFECTLY together, and calling it wrong the way I'd call murdering wrong. And I don't hate the murderER person, just the act.
I hope that explained some of this big puzzle we call life and eases some minds about me being an over zealous religious type, or homophobic. I really would like to get away from this dialog as it sturs up very deep and potentially hurtful feelings in people that are best left off this forum, but if you want me to keep posting my INSANE ideas here, please ask and I will be happy to continue. I feel it is important for people to openly talk about things they might be uncomfortable with in the confines of friends and loved ones... even if they are online.
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