Mark -
Points well recieved.
And being a fellow Marine gives you extra credit points
Points well recieved.
And being a fellow Marine gives you extra credit points
Moral Decay in our society – upcoming elections
- Thread starter thrasherfox
- Start date
thesnake
Registered
Your a class act Ron. There are two possibilities: 1) IF Kerry wins, he will HOPEFULLY guide our ecomony and military with more wisdom than Bush. And 2) IF Bush wins, HOPEFULLY he will have learned something about his past mistakes and becomes a stronger commander and chief. Either way, there's a leap of faith. The deciding issue for voters is which of these two potential outcomes is more likely. IMHO, it's #1.
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I've never understood one simple thing about politics...how can any American sit and watch any candidate spew so many lies about all they WILL DO FOR AMERICA when it takes (literally) and act of Congress and the processing of so much red tape to even get a damn law passed?
My point? I hate politics, and I listen to all of the campaign promises pretty much like I wish I would win the lottery...sounds good, nice to dream, but it's probably not going to happen...I'm far too cynical for that rhetoric from ANYONE...
I'm backing Bush...I've never considered myself a dem or rep; I vote who I think will lead this country for the next 4 years to the best of his ability and then hope for the best for America. Empty campaign promises do nothing for me...slandering one another does nothing for me...surrounding yourself with people that misused their authority (Clinton) does nothing for me...
I agree with Thrasher 100% on his views of Clinton's time spent in the White House. I've never understood his popularity, nor do I understand Hillary's. I lost all respect for both of them time and time again, and they'll forever be "jokes" in history...even if Clinton can take credit for doing great things for America, whenever I see him or see others accepting his backing, I see a weak person that just conveniently forgot all that he did wrong...
So, this gal didn't gain any respect for Bill...and I hate Hillary even more because I assume she's a weak woman for letting him get away with it all...
I'm done...fuggin' politics...
My point? I hate politics, and I listen to all of the campaign promises pretty much like I wish I would win the lottery...sounds good, nice to dream, but it's probably not going to happen...I'm far too cynical for that rhetoric from ANYONE...
I'm backing Bush...I've never considered myself a dem or rep; I vote who I think will lead this country for the next 4 years to the best of his ability and then hope for the best for America. Empty campaign promises do nothing for me...slandering one another does nothing for me...surrounding yourself with people that misused their authority (Clinton) does nothing for me...
I agree with Thrasher 100% on his views of Clinton's time spent in the White House. I've never understood his popularity, nor do I understand Hillary's. I lost all respect for both of them time and time again, and they'll forever be "jokes" in history...even if Clinton can take credit for doing great things for America, whenever I see him or see others accepting his backing, I see a weak person that just conveniently forgot all that he did wrong...
So, this gal didn't gain any respect for Bill...and I hate Hillary even more because I assume she's a weak woman for letting him get away with it all...
I'm done...fuggin' politics...
I will be voting for Bush also. While TheSnake brought up points for me to ponder, I still would prefer President Bush as president over Kerry by a long shot.
I have numerous reasons as to why I will vote for Bush, however one of them being I spent 10 years in the Corps and now have given over 6 years to federal civil service. And if Kerry voted against providing money in support of our troops I cannot in good conscious vote him to be president.
This is by far not the only reason, nor the biggest reason, just one of many.
I have numerous reasons as to why I will vote for Bush, however one of them being I spent 10 years in the Corps and now have given over 6 years to federal civil service. And if Kerry voted against providing money in support of our troops I cannot in good conscious vote him to be president.
This is by far not the only reason, nor the biggest reason, just one of many.
thesnake
Registered
http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0315/news-anderson.php
Ron, many vets would question Bush's support of troops. The above article is a decent read and one of many. Although Kerry may not fund certain weapon programs as Bush, I do feel he would attempt to address major issues with the VA and other Vet issues.
Ron, many vets would question Bush's support of troops. The above article is a decent read and one of many. Although Kerry may not fund certain weapon programs as Bush, I do feel he would attempt to address major issues with the VA and other Vet issues.
Good points VaBusa. I totally agree as well. It makes me mad just to think of how the Clintons disgraced America and American Government in general yet they both are more popular than ever.
I'm voting Bush but with some reservation. No way in heck am I voting for Kerry. He's of poor character at best and an untrustworthy two-faced traitor at worst.
I'm voting Bush but with some reservation. No way in heck am I voting for Kerry. He's of poor character at best and an untrustworthy two-faced traitor at worst.
SNAKE!! Stop it you are corrupting my mind!!
Mark, you might have missed it or forgot, but I will paste in something I wrote earlier in the thread, here it is
"The sad thing is, from every aspect of what I work with, our budgets have sucked. I wont go into why, but trust me when I say the department of Defense is barley getting the minimum, and if we get under Kerry, we will get even less than we are now."
I read the article you linked to.
You are right, funding sucks and it is getting tighter, in my department I have gone through at least 4 "Man power reviews"
All they are is head hunting routines, no matter what they tell you and how nice they try to be.
Each time when they were trying their darndest to cut my department I was able to provide black and white documentation as to my work load and was able to justify the need for 2 more bodies. I have never got them, but other departments that were not able to justify their bodies lost people within a year. They are doing everything they can to cut out what they can and CANT live with.
I am at a place right now where they have 60 civilian IT's, they are letting 34 of them go, within a week.
I wont and cannot go into other financial issues, but lets just say ordinance is not easy to come by, nor is anything else.
More base closures are on the horizon
And I am personally amazed at how bad my medical insurance is working for the government, my dental insurance sucks, I even joined the union at one time to get supplemental dental insurance which did not help any. My regular medical insurance isn’t too bad..
The ONLY reasons I stay working for the government is because I have job satisfaction, I feel what I do is important, the people I work with on a day to day basis is fricken awesome. Every supervisor I have had in the last 6 years (except 1) have been kick ass people..
Before I started working back for DOD again, I was working at a job where I was paid more, had better benefits, but I didn’t have the job satisfaction I have now.
My point for all this is to say, your right, the military is working on an extremely tight budget, all I can say is it is the way things are everywhere, even in the civilian sector companies are folding left and right, re-structuring.
And I am not saying president Bush is perfect.
What I am saying is what we need in the Whitehouse is someone who has not been corrupted by politics, who is of good moral character and does not have their own personal agenda. And I don’t see that ever happening. The political structure of our government would not allow for someone with no political background to become president. But I think that is what we need
I honestly do not think us going into Iraq was about oil, however if there was a personal motive in anyway, I would say Presidents Bushs’s father might have had regrets about not finishing the job on his shift and the current President Bush might be trying to finish the job his father started. And that is only a big speculation.
So I totally agree with you Mark, the financial support of our vets and our government sucks, trust me.. I know first hand it sucks. But also in the same way I know how bad it is sucking now is the same way I know how much worse it will more than likely be if Kerry becomes president.
As I said in an earlier post the government is already bracing itself for a possible change in the white house, and the perceived change by people who know more and better than I do are perceiving budget strings are going to get a lot tighter..
As someone pointed out earlier, we don’t have a lot off good options. And I wont guess at how much off the current situation is directly related to President Bush and how much of it is just due to the world environment and a situation that NO one president can get a handle on.
It is the lesser of two weevils
I think and I project, that if Kerry does become president people are going to be in for a rude awakening. We are in a different time with different issues. The terrorist threat isn’t going away and just because we have a change of presidents doesn’t mean we are going to get the support of the world.
If Kerry back tracks on our current course and pulls people out of Iraq and Afghanistan and gets out of everyone’s business, the US will look week and will be viewed as a prime target for attack and the prime time to attack.
If he doesn’t back track and he continues the course that Bush is going, then what difference would it have made on who was president. I can almost guarantee you the military will not get more support under Kerry than it is now under President Bush..
Ok Mark, your inputs have made me ponder decision made by the current administration. And have made me aware of some details I had not previously been aware of, however you still have not convinced me that I should vote for Kerry, keep trying, I am enjoying learning more about the issue, but it is going to take a lot more than you have provided to convince me to vote for Kerry.
thesnake
Registered
Ron, even though we may disagree on who the lesser of two evils is, we are in 100% agreement on the issues. The country could use a few more Ron's!
As for the budgets cuts, I feel for ya. It's tough to answer the call of duty in these challenging times, when politics is holding the pursestrings. But be it repubs or dems, they will be the first to point fingers.
As for Iraq, your "big speculation" is my guy feeling as well. I don't subscribe to the hogwash it was for oil.
As for terrorism, it certainly is not diminishing and will grow. What I think we need is a change in tactics from the bush and co's. methods.
As for the military at large, I agree-- active duty is typically conservative and favors repubs. They only become dems once their idealism is tarnished
As for persuading you to vote Kerry, I can't. I am not particularly thrilled with him myself. My only hope is that he would appoint the right people at the right posts. I don't think Bush individually has done a terrible job, but I think his administration at large has to go (rummy/chainey).
If Powell ran, he would have 100% of my backing and support. He is truly the only one who had displayed courage, conviction, diplomacy, and operated with an open mind. He is a great leader and would make an ideal commander and chief.
As for the budgets cuts, I feel for ya. It's tough to answer the call of duty in these challenging times, when politics is holding the pursestrings. But be it repubs or dems, they will be the first to point fingers.
As for Iraq, your "big speculation" is my guy feeling as well. I don't subscribe to the hogwash it was for oil.
As for terrorism, it certainly is not diminishing and will grow. What I think we need is a change in tactics from the bush and co's. methods.
As for the military at large, I agree-- active duty is typically conservative and favors repubs. They only become dems once their idealism is tarnished
As for persuading you to vote Kerry, I can't. I am not particularly thrilled with him myself. My only hope is that he would appoint the right people at the right posts. I don't think Bush individually has done a terrible job, but I think his administration at large has to go (rummy/chainey).
If Powell ran, he would have 100% of my backing and support. He is truly the only one who had displayed courage, conviction, diplomacy, and operated with an open mind. He is a great leader and would make an ideal commander and chief.
Ron, even though we may disagree on who the lesser of two evils is, we are in 100% agreement on the issues. The country could use a few more Ron's!
As for the budgets cuts, I feel for ya. It's tough to answer the call of duty in these challenging times, when politics is holding the pursestrings. But be it repubs or dems, they will be the first to point fingers.
As for Iraq, your "big speculation" is my guy feeling as well. I don't subscribe to the hogwash it was for oil.
As for terrorism, it certainly is not diminishing and will grow. What I think we need is a change in tactics from the bush and co's. methods.
As for the military at large, I agree-- active duty is typically conservative and favors repubs. They only become dems once their idealism is tarnished
As for persuading you to vote Kerry, I can't. I am not particularly thrilled with him myself. My only hope is that he would appoint the right people at the right posts. I don't think Bush individually has done a terrible job, but I think his administration at large has to go (rummy/chainey).
If Powell ran, he would have 100% of my backing and support. He is truly the only one who had displayed courage, conviction, diplomacy, and operated with an open mind. He is a great leader and would make an ideal commander and chief.
lol - ohh nooooo the country definatley does not need MORE RON's!! lol. I am more screwed up than most. that is why I DONT run for any kind of politcal office.. too many skeletons in my closet donthchya know. Heck if I even walk by my closet door within 4 feet I here the bones rattling trying to get out
I totallty agree on the Powell issue.
If Powell ran for President he would with out a doubt get my vote at this time. I do hold the man in hi regards
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It's my firm belief that President Bush respects and upholds the Office of the President and puts the needs of the country ahead of his own - he does what is best for the country despite the potential fallout to him and despite the histrionics, screaming, whining, drooling and drivel of the leftists. For this reason among many, my vote will be cast for President Bush.
At this point and as long as I'm in command of my mental faculties, there is absolutely nothing that could persuade me to cast a vote for the other guy - the self-serving, self-aggrandizing, despicable Snake. The man makes my skin crawl.
Steve
At this point and as long as I'm in command of my mental faculties, there is absolutely nothing that could persuade me to cast a vote for the other guy - the self-serving, self-aggrandizing, despicable Snake. The man makes my skin crawl.
Steve
thesnake
Registered
No offense to anyone, but I am always saddened to see discussions about an important event and one that is the cornerstone of our strength (yes the electoral process) be reduced to empty personal attacks and shallow labeling. This type of discourse is dominant regardless of the spectrum folks seem to come from (either left or right). It should be as simple as listing YOUR most important ISSUES and seeing which of the candidates align themselves with those ISSUES accordingly. I'm afraid that by resting on one's perceived notion of what a canidate image is or isn't is often a function of political spinsters and the media.
Sermon over
Sermon over
busabad
Registered
Politics, politics, politics...
It always a lose/lose to get into these discussions...however, I would like to make one point in agreeing with thesnake and identifying with issues.
My issue with W is where is Bin Laden...plain and simple.
If someone attacked my family(my country) and then made a videotape about how happy he was he did it...that MF would
have to go down...plain and simple! W should have sent
250,000 or more if need be into Afghanastan/Pakistan and
turned over every rock until his ass was fininshed...plain and simple. Now, that would have been the opening of our war on terror and after Bin Laden was done and Sadam was still talking sh** tell him he's next on the list...plain and simple!
Now, for that morality this and that, we all live in glass houses to some extent, one way or another soooo...be careful about those stones...uh, that may have been more than one point...
Ride safe...
It always a lose/lose to get into these discussions...however, I would like to make one point in agreeing with thesnake and identifying with issues.
My issue with W is where is Bin Laden...plain and simple.
If someone attacked my family(my country) and then made a videotape about how happy he was he did it...that MF would
have to go down...plain and simple! W should have sent
250,000 or more if need be into Afghanastan/Pakistan and
turned over every rock until his ass was fininshed...plain and simple. Now, that would have been the opening of our war on terror and after Bin Laden was done and Sadam was still talking sh** tell him he's next on the list...plain and simple!
Now, for that morality this and that, we all live in glass houses to some extent, one way or another soooo...be careful about those stones...uh, that may have been more than one point...
Ride safe...
You watched the coverage of the DNC too did you; it was truly a sad presentation...
Steve
Is it now. Personally I don't see any affectation of grandeur or absurd exaggeration - simply a statement of belief. Then again you're certainly entitled to your opinion...Aughtsix, proclamingthat someone is doing "what's best for the country" is a bit grandiose. That aside, what is dispicable about a Snake? they are highly evolved and predate humans by a long stretch
And if it is indeed your opinion, do you see it as more or less grandiose then a proclamation that he is not doing what's best for the country?
Also, no disrespect meant to your screen name. The snake, by the way, only predates mankind by one day - not exactly a 'long stretch'...
Steve
thesnake
Registered
gents,
order.. order... order...
"You watched the coverage of the DNC too did you; it was truly a sad presentation..."
I assume that is a question. Yes, I watched bits of it. I wasn't overly impressed, it had some speaches that were definetely geared towards a particular ideology, however there were several good speaches as well. Regardless of your beliefs, both Clinton's and Kerry's speach were very good in terms of public speaking and connecting with their audience (DNC). Personally, I would of liked to see all of them leave out the inuendo and stick to their own beliefs. I can't wait to see the RNC line-up and speaches...
03busaman-- great! I'm glad to see your voting regardless of fwhom you cast the vote for!
"Personally I don't see any affectation of grandeur or absurd exaggeration - simply a statement of belief. Then again you're certainly entitled to your opinion"
I interpreted your sentence wrongly as I saw it conisisting of two distict phrases, one of a belief/s and one more emphatic. My apoligies.
"And if it is indeed your opinion, do you see it as more or less grandiose then a proclamation that he is not doing what's best for the country?"
I would not proclaim anything to that effect, however I would be able to quite easily raise questions and present results. Cause and effect is another matter. My opinion is that Bush is a sincere person and truly believes in his policies. My opinion is contrary to his.
"Also, no disrespect meant to your screen name. The snake, by the way, only predates mankind by one day - not exactly a 'long stretch'"
Good to hear that. I's my nickname from freshman year in college (many moons ago) when I cleaned out the dorm most of the Friday Poker nights
As for my reptile compatriots, I'm not sure where you got your info. Check again. The first human fossil record is dated between 3.6 and 3 million years ago(Australopethicus). Homosapiens (you and I) have been around appx 900k years. Contrast that with one of the earliest snakes to appear in the fossil record (Lapparentophis defrenni). It was found in the Saharan Desert and has been dated to the early Cretaceous period, about 130 million years ago. Hell, vipers are a little older than 10 million years. That is indeed a 'long stretch'
-over n' out
order.. order... order...
"You watched the coverage of the DNC too did you; it was truly a sad presentation..."
I assume that is a question. Yes, I watched bits of it. I wasn't overly impressed, it had some speaches that were definetely geared towards a particular ideology, however there were several good speaches as well. Regardless of your beliefs, both Clinton's and Kerry's speach were very good in terms of public speaking and connecting with their audience (DNC). Personally, I would of liked to see all of them leave out the inuendo and stick to their own beliefs. I can't wait to see the RNC line-up and speaches...
03busaman-- great! I'm glad to see your voting regardless of fwhom you cast the vote for!
"Personally I don't see any affectation of grandeur or absurd exaggeration - simply a statement of belief. Then again you're certainly entitled to your opinion"
I interpreted your sentence wrongly as I saw it conisisting of two distict phrases, one of a belief/s and one more emphatic. My apoligies.
"And if it is indeed your opinion, do you see it as more or less grandiose then a proclamation that he is not doing what's best for the country?"
I would not proclaim anything to that effect, however I would be able to quite easily raise questions and present results. Cause and effect is another matter. My opinion is that Bush is a sincere person and truly believes in his policies. My opinion is contrary to his.
"Also, no disrespect meant to your screen name. The snake, by the way, only predates mankind by one day - not exactly a 'long stretch'"
Good to hear that. I's my nickname from freshman year in college (many moons ago) when I cleaned out the dorm most of the Friday Poker nights
As for my reptile compatriots, I'm not sure where you got your info. Check again. The first human fossil record is dated between 3.6 and 3 million years ago(Australopethicus). Homosapiens (you and I) have been around appx 900k years. Contrast that with one of the earliest snakes to appear in the fossil record (Lapparentophis defrenni). It was found in the Saharan Desert and has been dated to the early Cretaceous period, about 130 million years ago. Hell, vipers are a little older than 10 million years. That is indeed a 'long stretch'
-over n' out
I suppose it depends a great deal on your world view. Connecting with their audience? Sure, but realize that liberalism is a collective mindset while conservatism is an individual mindset. One can usually get a collective audience stirring with hatred for the opposition without too much effort.
And about your fossil dating, nice theory but I'm not buying. Junk science is comforting to some, I'm sure, and that's fine if it gets them to sleep at night. But before you try to bowl me over with modern evolution theory, if that's what you're intending, realize that you're starting in the middle which is no place to start. Begin at the beginnning - explain the origin of time, space, energy and matter - the initial singularity. See where that takes you...
Steve
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thesnake
Registered
Aughtsix,
Yes how one perceives leaders, speaches, etc is all founded on individual beliefs. I didn't speak to the content at the DNC, but more of a technical analysis as one who does a fair amount of speaking. Your points are well made.
Fossil dating is junk science? I wasn't trying to bowl you over with evolution theory, but made the assumption that in the 21st century you adhered to modern tenets of science. No offense to creationism. As for starting in the middle.. science starts with DATA, not conjecture or beliefs. The initial singularity has several hypothesis in physics, however no data to support those hypothesis, which are in turn why they are in fact hypothesis. Perhaps creationism has evidence to support their beliefs of initial singularity? If someone tells me their bike can beat my busa, I tell them show me-- not okay I believe you. Empirical evidence.
What one cannot prove, one cannot disprove-- I learned that long ago in philosophy. I fully respect your beliefs and well thought out response. Be safe.
-snake
Yes how one perceives leaders, speaches, etc is all founded on individual beliefs. I didn't speak to the content at the DNC, but more of a technical analysis as one who does a fair amount of speaking. Your points are well made.
Fossil dating is junk science? I wasn't trying to bowl you over with evolution theory, but made the assumption that in the 21st century you adhered to modern tenets of science. No offense to creationism. As for starting in the middle.. science starts with DATA, not conjecture or beliefs. The initial singularity has several hypothesis in physics, however no data to support those hypothesis, which are in turn why they are in fact hypothesis. Perhaps creationism has evidence to support their beliefs of initial singularity? If someone tells me their bike can beat my busa, I tell them show me-- not okay I believe you. Empirical evidence.
What one cannot prove, one cannot disprove-- I learned that long ago in philosophy. I fully respect your beliefs and well thought out response. Be safe.
-snake
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