Michigan Armed Protesters
- Thread starter fallenarch
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08BusaKY
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If they were trying to intimidate voters it's worse. I don't think guns should be allowed at voting places. Here in KY guns are not allowed in federal buildings or voting places so if the MI thing would have happened here and they went in a federal building they would have been arrested.
08BusaKY
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It is judges jobs to follow the constitution and laws congress makes. These days they add their bios or political ideology influence or make their decisions. I see it all the time.
Mr Brown
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It's not about bowing to knowledge, it's about understanding the problem. We could work on a specific issue, but that would be like going to AutoZone and getting your check engine light read, and just buying the O2 sensor their reader says is bad. Yes, the sensor is bad, but why? Are there other things wrong which are related or perhaps causing the O2 sensor to fail? If we don't understand the whole problem, we can't address it and our fix will fail.
Ding ding ding...
Exactly. We must understand how issues are interrelated in order to solve them correctly.
Mr Brown
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A judge's job is to apply the law, to turn it into justice. How else can the law cover issues it doesn't specifically address? We can't just rely on the text of the Constitution, many problems in today's society are beyond the scope of it's actual wording. They're not beyond the scope of it's intent though. Judges have always reached such interpretation through means which personal bias and political ideology, the appellate system is the balance to that influence being too out of wack with society. The more conservative judges being appointed by this administration are hardly free from the influence of bias or political ideology, it just happens to be more right leaning currently.
08BusaKY
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Judges are not supposed to let their personal beliefs or political affiliations effect their decisions. Unfortunately that's not the case. That is why Mitch here in KY is trying to fill all the vacancies left by the last administration.
Mr Brown
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They weren't exactly just left by the last administration, many were blocked by the same guy who is filling them now. If you truly believe that McConnell is putting people in place who are not going to apply personal beliefs or political affiliation to their legal decisions, you're blind. That's exactly why they're being appointed. McConnell understands, probably better than anyone else in his party, and certainly far better than anyone on the left, where the power lies. In the courts. Stack them with similarly ideologically positioned people, and you retain power for far longer than an election cycle. Hell, you can determine the very outcome of elections if you can get your guys in high enough up the chain. Say by refusing to even hold confirmation hearings for the candidate chosen by the sitting president....
08BusaKY
Registered
The dems are delaying the process to approve judges as long as they can. Yes both sides would like to appoint their own judges. That is what I was saying above. "Judges are not supposed to let their personal beliefs or political affiliations effect their decisions. Unfortunately that's not the case"
If the dems get control they want to add members to the Supreme Court until the get more liberals. That is ridiculous. Since it is this way I for one am glad the republicans are appointing judges since I lean more right than you.
TallTom
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Umm how is Morgan Freeman less black than you? His views less black than yours? Now let's move on to Condolesa Rice. Colin Powell. Mr. Brown with all due respect. You can't cherry pick the black people that support your position, and discredit those that don't. Yes there are real racial problems in America. We can we not take into account the views of people like Morgan Freeman et all. He has been subjected to the same "racism" as every other black. They have risen above it. And then we can't ignore other "entanglements". Like the statistics that the number one cause of death in young black men are other black men. So yeah we have some issues in America. Yes there are systematic bias against blacks. Yes we can do better. On BOTH sides.
Mr Brown
Registered
I never said he was less black than me....or that his views were less black. I don't even know what that means.
I said he knows less about the study of race than me. Because he's an actor. Not a person who studies race. Which I am.
You put racism in quotes, as if it's a figment of the imagination of some black folk. It's not. It's documentable, empirically observable, intentional, and specific. Risen above it? You mean been successful in spite of it. The structural racism inherent to American society cannot be discounted because of a handful of successful black people, in the same way that it cannot be dismissed by a white person because of their own lack of racism. It's not about individual actions, successes or failures. It's about the likelihood of worse outcomes happening more frequently to specific groups. To look at racism on a micro level misses the point entirely.
We've discussed the cause of death argument before. Segregation effects that statistic. It only makes sense that young black men are a leading cause of death for young black men, when almost all the people they interact with on a daily basis are also black. Research hypersegregation. It's a real phenomenon. Unless you're one who chooses not to believe in evidence, and if that's the case then none of what I say matters, because you will simply deny it.
Here's the best quick way I can explain it: The poor are more likely to live in areas without resources because they can't afford to leave. Those who can, do. Black people are more likely to be poor, black women specifically. Single parents are more likely to be poor. Black women are also more likely to be single parents. Black men are incarcerated at higher levels than any other group. Incarceration leads to a higher likelihood of being poor.
Education is well documented as a way out of poverty, yet school funding is based on the value of the property in the district. Following this formula means that fewer resources are allocated to the people who need them the most.
Saying people need to do better on both sides implies that power and resources are evenly divided between the two. They absolutely are not. Any way you want to measure power: economic, legislative, social, legal, political, any way at all, the balance favors white men.
Every. Single. One.
Power is not equally accessible, never has been, wasn't intended to be. Please stop pretending it is.
SSGT_B
Registered
So, what defines a black man? What defines a white man? When will people as a whole, stop defining a man as the color or lack there of, of their skin? When will a man be defined by his actions and judged accordingly on that there of? Personally, I give a poop less what "color" you are. I care how you treat me and others. Don't be confused that I don't see the issues today or choose to act as if they are not there. IMHO, and take that for what you paid for it, change will never happen and we will never move forward until the cloud of hate is lifted and all are judged and seen equally.
Off rant
Time for pie
Off rant
Time for pie
Mr Brown
Registered
I agree. I just don't think the way to get to the equality you and I both want is by pretending not to see color. We do, we all do. It's what happens then that's important.
And yes, pie!
SSGT_B
Registered
I don't mean to imply not to see color, but not to define a man by color. Define a man by his actions and only that. We all end up in the same place in the end, you can not escape it.
Althou I gave you the "thumbs up" for your post Jeremy isn't it high time to to take a super scientific { Star Trek} approach to some issues and completely remove race,religion,gender,sexual preference,2nd amendment,etc from of some of the equations and move forward a tiny bit in an' effort to actually solve some of the issues at hand. How are we as the human race ever going to get anything accomplished if we continue to cloud every debate with underlying issues? Brought up every time their is a disagreement about the issue being tabled?
Isn't EVERY man,woman and child on this entire fuggin' planet discriminated against is some shape or form by someone.
I employ you to give me just one example.Somebody,any one person who does not in some way FEEL they have been discriminated against.
I'm as white as they come.What happens when I venture into ANY non-white "hood?" and visa versa. What happens when an over weight person joins a gym,who will befriend them when asked for a spot on their bench press? Aren't most folks praying that "fatty" doesn't ask them?
Millions of examples for that deal. Can't we take a scientific,logical,rational,feelings removed approach to OUR main issues,get them solved then hope and pray that the rest resolves itself ever so slowly as the generations become more tolerant of one another?
Would we not cure something like Covid-19 faster if we wasted less resources on underlying bullshid and focused on the BIG problem we all have. Another example of why the scientific,mathematical,logical approach is THE ONLY the way to go. "Stay home people"...faster way to victory.
"FUG NO" it's my right to do what ever the fug I want in the name of personal
If I was American and had a vote years back I would have insisted that Gene Roddenberry of Star Trek fame put his name on the ballot.
His type of forward thinking was absolute brilliance.
Mr. Spock for the Presidents chief of staff. (take emotion out of problem solving.)
Install a Russian (Checkov) to take charge of the greatest nuclear weapon on the planet. Let him drive.
We'll have a female from a minority handle the all important communication between all the different factions.
Hell,if you wanna get your sex from an' alien go for it,the president (Captain James T, Kirk) does.
Roddenberry...what an advanced evolutionary train of thought.
Have a crotchety old bastid find us the cure for Covid using nothing but the best science with no political ideology or economic gain to stand in his way of the goal,the ultimate prise,a cure. Ahhh pure science.
We NEED McCoy for that job.
Interracial couples,don't give it another thought...we'll have the President face plant his Communications expert on live T.V. Problem solved.
Now I know what yer thinkin'....could somebody please beam that fuggin nut-job RubberSideDown back to his own fuggin' planet.
Now back to what ever the heck the IMPORTANT agenda was.
Live long and prosper....I know,how can he ever expect to prosper wearing a dirty crew neck.
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Mr Brown
Registered
If only we could, and it would work. What I'd I told you that the way knowledge itself was affected by the things we want to move beyond? What we know, who knows it, how we know it, and what we do with it are all related to race, gender, religion, etc. One of the ways power reproduces itself is through the control of knowledge.
TallTom
Registered
I agree with most of your rationale for what leads to the problems. I'd also want to give recognition to those that rise above it. Morgan Freeman don't have to study "racism", to be subjected to it. And yes I again will state that the black community is subjected to a lot of intolerance. Perhaps they as a community create some circumstances that cause intolerance. Totally agree that socio economic circumstances contribute to bad outcomes. That isn't a "racial" thing, that's a socio economic thing. Poor Latinos don't burn down cities when the cops get off the hook for the killing of a Latino. Why do you suppose cops aren't killing poor disadvantaged Latinos in cars during traffic stops? I'm being rhetorical a bit in these questions. It just seems like America is being told that no matter what we do, it isn't enough to help them. Yet Asians assimilate into our society. Muslims assimilate. Latinos assimilate. Why is it the blacks take longer to assimilate, yet get all of the attention? Why can't we get more Morgan Freeman's, etc to provide leadership. Don Lemon is as black and probably as Rich as Morgan Freeman. Yet one understands racism and the other does not? As long as we have a Don Lemon telling us we are racist, we will have a pissed off portion of America that will prefer to ask Morgan Freeman to lead the way. I have ZERO problems making sure nobody gets penalized by the color of their skin. It's the character of the person that I will judge by.
Dude, put down the crack pipe. Are we talking about the same Muslims you guys blame every time a WS sets a bomb off or shoots up a mall? Are Latino gangs assimilated too? Did Italians assimilate or did we just start loving Godfather movies and pasta on our own? What about Irish, I suppose we all loved potatoes and whiskey on St. Patty's day on our own? For hundreds of years, immigrants have altered the DNA of America and added to our shared culture. Might I point out that Africans and Native Americans are the only groups forcibly integrated with White Europeans, maybe that's why they resist assimilation.
Remember the point and strength of America is freedom and individualism, the strength of a flock of sheep is that everyone is the same. I know many of us don't express ourselves in writing on subjects as touchy as this often, but man some of the goofy chit.....
If only we were driven by knowledge as our number one resource in solving our/the world's problem's eh Bro.
Easy fix. But that's not our chosen way...we are caught up in discrimination,anger,hate and bizarre ideology.
Don't you think emotion would be better left at home and not brought to the problem solving table?
Intellectual,real world science type thought processes versus emotional ones.
Rube.
Mr Brown
Registered
Experiencing racism and studying it are two different things. I've been on a plane, doesn't make me a pilot...
You appear to have either missed the point, or you're unwilling to accept it's validity. Either way, racism isn't a result of an individual person's action or inaction. This way of understanding it allows questions like "why is it the blacks take longer to assimilate" seem reasonable, when in fact the answers are clear. Obviously the circumstances of immigration effect outcomes, and none of the other groups you mentioned arrived here under those conditions, nor were the economic benefits of their labor controlled by them. Or their descendants. In fact, children were born into the same slavery as the mother. The law mandated this, for generations. I know you're a businessman, so I'll ask you this: If you could have just one person work for you for one year, doing whatever you told them to do, rent them out to others when you didn't need them, no vacation or time off, and all you had to do was provide them enough food, clothing, and shelter to remain productive, not thrive or enjoy life, just be able to work, how much capital would that generate for you? Now multiply that by hundreds of thousands of people over 200 years. That's the economic impact of slavery.
Slavery as an institution, and the social, economic, and legal fallout from it is largely the driving factor behind the inequality facing black people in the US.
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