Is this a fair sentence?

[MoosesBusa]

Some of you guys should read the article.
Car = Pursuit Chevy Camaro.
Cop = 20 year NYC cop retired.
4 year FHP veteran.
Does his 20 gets full pension from NY.
Moves to Fla to earn more in good weather.

You forgot the FHP no chase policy. If we're gonna look at the details, let's look at all of them. The biker screwed up, the cop screwed up, and the judge is an idiot.

My exact opinion! 30 yrs. Is Stupid wrong. Veteran Officer made a bad decision ending tragically. Rider habitually made bad decisions and had the POPO's after him from priors. Mechanic made a bad decision by not changing tires in time. Porsche driver made a bad decision even thinking he could keep up with a motorcycle much less a busa. Bad deal all they way around and there is NO decision that will please everyone.

 

[Charlesbusa]

Suppose that this rider spooked one of the cagers by closing in at a high rate of speed, the cager changes lanes to get out of the biker's way, crashes into your mother who is also innocently driving along, and she is killed.  


 The biggest issue here is that too many people fail to accept responsibility for their actions.  "Let's blame the cop for chasing, let's blame the tire maker, let's blame the service crew that installed the tire."  

That is a completely different scenario.  Someone avoiding a reckless motorcycle is completely different than a cop pursuing(against dept. policy) and blowing a tire.

The motorcycle made the other car avoid him.

The tire blew.  Did the motorcyclists shoot it out, no.  Did he slash the tire, no.  Why did it blow, you have to investigate.  Tire manfacturer, the police shop, the cop himself for not checking air pressure.  




About responsibility;
what about the cop's??  Yes he is dead now and that is sad.  But it doesn't changed the fact that he made bad decisions.  Granted all this is based on the info provided here and there may be more involved that we don't know about.

The motorcyclists is NOT rsponsible for the cops tires.  And to say so is just riduclous. He is responsible for speeding and evading, but not manslaughter.

If an innocent driver had been killed instead.  You KNOW the motorcyclists wouldn't have been convicted of manslaughter.

My biggest question is who was on the jury that convicted him.  This is why we have jury of our peers, to keep law enforcement fair among other things.



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[Charlesbusa]

Wether or not the cop should have gone in pursuit due to the dept. ordinances is out of the question. That is what cops do, go after bad people or people breaking the law.

Cops are supposed to follow policy. If the enforcers of the law can't follow their own rules, than we're all in big trouble.

But you're right, the fact the cop pursued had nothing to do with it. Just like the motorcyclists had nothing to do with the tire blow out.

Yes the rider is guilty, guilty of speeding and evading.

Not mansluaghter!

 

[98vobra]

The whole point of this is that this would have never even been in the news and we would not be talking about it if the two guys speeding pulled over. A cop would not have lost his life and another man would not be going to jail, Period. It would just have been another ticket. People need to take responsibilty when they break the law.

I think 30 years it crazy, but what is this world coming to when people know that if they run from the police they can get away with murder? Noone on here can say if a armed robber came into your house and held you and your family up that you would not want the police to chase and catch the guys.

Its easy to say when the crime happened to someone else that the police should not chase them. Police officers can't win, people who get their car stolen want us to find their car but then other people don't want us to case them, WTF?

The bottom line is if the Fuckhead who just commited the crime doen't run then the police don't have to chase them, and noone gets hurt.

That guy took the chance when he was driving over 100mph now he has to deal with what choice he made. He has noone to blame but himself.

 

[ridercoach]

Call me the voice of indifference. But I believe that biker got every last bit of what he deserved. I live right down the street from where the FHP officer died, and I see his cross every day.

Boy there is a lot blame game here, from the cop to the jurors to the tires. The fact is that biker ran, they can't convince me he didn't know he was being pursued. The rider has done it in the past, he was not a model citizen. The office, a veteran from NY that decided to work down in sunny Florida, was doing his job. He was pursuing and individual that was racing on I-4 who was posing a danger to the public, which is not a pay road or by any means a race track. These racers could have caused a death. I wish they got the driver of the Porsche and gave him the same. I know what your going to say, there is a NO PURSUIT law in Florida, right? I can hear you thinking it....

"Vehicular pursuit of fleeing suspects presents a danger to the lives of the public,
officers and suspects involved in the pursuit. It is the policy of this Division to protect all
persons' lives to the extent possible when enforcing the law. In addition, it is the
responsibility of the Division to assist members in the safe performance of their duties.
To effect these obligations, it shall be the policy of the Division to strictly regulate the
manner in which vehicular pursuit is undertaken and performed.
Members are authorized to pursue suspects who are reasonably thought to be
violent and pose a danger to the public at large. Therefore, members may pursue a
suspect only if the member reasonably believes the suspect has committed or
attempted to commit a crime of violence. ALL OTHER PURSUITS ARE PROHIBITED.'

Given certain circumstances you can pursue, go ahead and tear it apart and throw blame on the officer. I don't belive the officer was pursing as to catch the Hayabusa, and officer of 20 years would know better. He was probably tracing, staying far enough away but not loosing all sight of him, needs to be there incase the rider killed someone at those speeds.

The simple fact that the motorcyclist would not pull over resulted in the death of the officer. Like in any case where a pursuit is involved the driver of the vehicle being pursued will get charged with things that occurred from there complete disregard of the law.

From being in pursuits my self, we have called of many pursuits when the danger level was to high, but the perp does not realize that or they do and figure they can get a further away and still insist on driving like aholes at high dangerous speeds.

So what should we do? See some someone speeding and just let them go because they might run and we cant have that.

Ok im getting off subject here, Rider F-cked up. Let him be the example, Make him the poster child for runners. Let them know if they run they pay. For all of you on this board that think running is fun and worth it, I just pray that you don't kill anyone or yourself due to your stupidity. Obey the law, yeah I know we all speed a little

and Ill take the ticket when I get caught, don't run from the cops, and don't be reckless by racing on city streets, take it the track.

If final thought. HE RAN THE COP FOLLOWED, COP WOULD BE HERE IF THE RIDER NEVER RAN. Ridder got every last bit that he deserved.

God Speed Officer Haywood, some of us down here know you were doing your job.

 

[Devious]

If final thought. HE RAN THE COP FOLLOWED, COP WOULD BE HERE IF THE RIDER NEVER RAN. Ridder got every last bit that he deserved.

I don't believe that completly. What if the whole issue had never occured and he blew a tire on the way home from his shitf and crashed. Or saw someone with a headlight out and had to turn around and he then ran it up to over 100+ to catch the vehicle and then blew a tire. Who would be to blame then, the person with a light out. Again, sorry for the Leo and his family. But it was an accident.


David

 

[TIMMYDUCK]

But the officer was in no way going to catch the racers.
They caught the dipstick because he stopped at a rest area to probably clean out his shorts.
Cop was in over his head and did it anyways.
The guy is not responsible for his poor choice or Death.

 

[WarBaby]

Obey the law, yeah I know we all speed a little[/QUOTE]

A "little" is okay but a "little more" (or a "lot more") is not. Right!

Perspective is a fascinating thing.

 

[eynlai]

I don't believe that completly. What if the whole issue had never occured and he blew a tire on the way home from his shitf and crashed. Or saw someone with a headlight out and had to turn around and he then ran it up to over 100+ to catch the vehicle and then blew a tire. Who would be to blame then, the person with a light out. Again, sorry for the Leo and his family. But it was an accident.


David

True to that.  What IF...  We kept forgetting that the tire BLEW OUT.  What if the LEO sped up to 100 mph to catch a speeder that was doing 85 mph or even 80 mph and the tire BLEW OUT?  And there was NO race?  Then should the mild speeder be held for manslaughter?

And we don't know if Williams knew he as being pursued.  We all ride and we all know the constraint of view by our helmet visors and our tiny sideview mirrors.

My first speeding ticket on my busa I had NO idea that the CHP was trying to catch up to me on the 101 fwy from Camarillo to Calabasses until he was right up on me and hit his lights, and this was at night!  So you can imagine it would've been hard to see the lights if it was daytime.

From the article, it didn't seem that the LEO, Haywood, got close enough in the "chase".  And how do we know that the Porche and Busa didn't go separate way simply because it was time for one of them to pull off or change freeways due to actual destination, and not intent to evade or run?

Think about it carefully, if I were to run, knowing I was being pursued, you think I would stop in the relative close vicinity to rest, use the can or to clean out my shorts?  I would ride as fast and hard from the area as possible until I have to stop for gas. I'll worry about my shorts later.

That's what I think is wrong here.  I'm no lawyer, and maybe one on this board can speak up to confirm or correct me.  But wouldn't it be necessary for Williams to KNOW that he was being pursued in order to get him on evading charges?  Much less manslaughter?

I'm not saying Williams is a saint, he took his chances, and he lost.  But what he lost was NOT what he intentionally betted on the table.  He was betting a heavy fine, impoundment of his busa, a few days of jail time, suspension of his license, and maybe a couple of hundred hours of community service.  But not manslaughter.  

Now if he KNEW and intentionally did things to cause the LEO, Haywood, to crash.  Then that's a different story, then they should fry his ass.

IF this ain't one of those cases that should be appeal and overturned due to unfair application of the law, then I don't know what would be.



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[Charlesbusa]

Ridercoach and 98vobra,

First I have never run and will never run from the cops, period.

I simply dissagree with your opinions.  I think the rider is guilty of evading and speeding, not manslaughter and vehicular homicide. And the rider got 30yrs because a cop died, if a regular joe had died. The rider would not have been charged with manslaughter and vehicular homicide.

The punishment should fit the crime and in this case it doesn't.



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[ridercoach]

We can speculate about headlights being out, turning around to go the bathroom, whatever you want, but it didnt happen that way. He was following a blatant speeder, racer, and runner. PERIOD. Spectulate again all you want, but thats not what happened. I can throw out what ifs all day long. But the facts are the facts and they are not going to change. I didnt post this to start any arguments, just telling it like I see it. I respect everyones opinion and I we are all entitled to them. I still stand by the fact that if the guy didnt run, the officer would still be here today.

 

[Turbo-Torch]

Think about it carefully, if I were to run, knowing I was being pursued, you think I would stop in the relative close vicinity to rest, use the can or to clean out my shorts? I would ride as fast and hard from the area as possible until I have to stop for gas. I'll worry about my shorts later.[/QUOTE]

He was at the rest stop because his Busa had a flat tire.

If there is one thing this situation has taught me, it's NEVER EVER admit anything to a cop. If things start to look serious, ask for a lawyer and keep mouth 100% shut.

 

[nitrousjunkie]

One of the reasons I left Fla.Too much of the "good ole boy" stuff going on.Fla sucks,their judicial system sucks,and the LEO got what he got! There are good lawyers in Fla.,apparently the guy DIDNT have one of them.All the choices made here were wrong, but the 30 yr. thing is ridiculous! When a judge interjects his personal whatever and disregards certain facts like the chase,he should be disbarred.I feel sorry for the LEO's family, but jeez,they have cams in their cars, this is not rocket science.He made a bad decision (adrenalin," I'll show him",what ever) Just plain stupid,Even here in the UAE they have a no chase law and it is STRICTLY enforced.WTF was he thinking? Now 2 families are torn apart when a simple ticket in the mail for willfull and wantin,fleeing,wreckless driving,aggrivated speeding and whatever else they want to pin on him would have been good enough.The ticket alone would have cost him his license for a year.

 

[TIMMYDUCK]

If there is one thing this situation has taught me, it's NEVER EVER admit anything to a cop.  

+ 1
I have the right to remain silent and I will.

 

[gm1300]

30 yrs is absurd . nobody forced the cop to chase the bike


.

 

[BUTTER2BOY]

+1

 

[98vobra]

Some of you guys have no Idea. The bottom line is if the two jackass guys racing pulled over the life of a police officer and the 30 years in jail would all be saved. Pass blame on the police officer all you want but that is the fact! I guess you guys think that when the police get into a shooting and get killed that it is the police officers falt because he should not have been in a shootout?

The fact is that the actions of the guys racing caused the poilce officers death! How can you argue with that?

 

[eynlai]

Some of you guys have no Idea. The bottom line is if the two jackass guys racing pulled over the life of a police officer and the 30 years in jail would all be saved. Pass blame on the police officer all you want but that is the fact! I guess you guys think that when the police get into a shooting and get killed that it is the police officers falt because he should not have been in a shootout?

The fact is that the actions of the guys racing caused the poilce officers death! How can you argue with that?

True to that if the LEO was close enough and one of the racers did something intentionally to run the LEO off the road. But you keep neglecting that it was a tire blow out, and from what I read, it wasn't even at a sustained speed. His tire blew out while TAKING OFF to start the chase. The LEO wasn't even in it yet.

So answer my earlier posting: What if it was just a mild speeder, and not a race involved? Come on, we've all driven or rider 80 mph to 85 mph on regular occasion. Yes, 80 mph is breaking the law. So is 70 mph in a 65 mph posted.... So would it be the mild speeder's fault that the LEO's tire blew out and the LEO got killed?

 

[Mr Brown]

The fact is that the actions of the guys racing caused the poilce officers death! How can you argue with that?

Because the fact that those guys were racing is not the only factor. If they hadn't been racing, the cop would still be alive. They didn't follow the rules. If he had not chased them, the cop would still be alive. He didn't follow the rules. It is a tragedy that should have been avoided, but the blame does not rest on only one party. I understand that cops are human, and susceptible to normal emotions, no matter what training and experience, and it seems to me that is exactly what occured here. The officer pursued when he shouldn't have, and the racers ran when they shouldn't have. We all make poor decisions sometimes, these two had tragic and fatal consequences. One guy out doing his job, another guy out screwing around. Neither guy making it home for dinner. A tragic accident.

 

[eynlai]

He was at the rest stop because his Busa had a flat tire.

If there is one thing this situation has taught me, it's NEVER EVER admit anything to a cop.  If things start to look serious, ask for a lawyer and keep mouth 100% shut.

Then I hate to say this, but all the "bad stars" were aligned in the universal that day for this tragedy to happen to both the LEO that died and the busa rider that got 30 years.

Imagine that... What are the chances of that? At that moment! If his tire went flat BEFORE the race then this wouldn't have happened. If his tire didn't go flat then likely he wouldn't have been found.