if you look long enough...........

[aussiekeeper]

You will find answers. 4-5 weeks ago, I changed the oil in my steering damper to a heavier viscosity. And I forgot about it..............

Enter the last 5-6 rides. I have been getting the feeling that I will never really "get it" when it comes to cornering. After all, I have been riding non-sport bikes for over 40 years. But lately, I have noticed a heavy feeling when I turn into a sweeper. So, I'm thinking, maybe this "feeling" I'm getting is just me, you know, I'm just never going to get it. But, not too long ago, I was getting more comfortable with turning, tucking and all of that. I have been reading the books on how to handle the turns. I have been out by myself on the backroads pushing a little harder every time and getting more and more confident. I am not afraid, but I am also no fool. I'm not going to crash, so I have been doing increasingly more each session on the road. But lately it has not been working for me. I read a lot and try to learn as much as possible about everything that interests me. And, I have been very concerned about this cornering thing. Then I found this............Thanks Kirk, who ever you are..............





A lot of riders appear to have a phobia of wagging handlebars. To the point that they put thicker oil in their stock steering dampers or spend perfectly good money on an aftermarket damper and then screw in a bunch of damping.

Heck, I know of Hayabusa riders (who really ride), who have removed their stock dampers and run no damper.

The only purpose for aftermarket dampers is to allow people to run chassis geometry that they wouldn't be able to get away with any other way, and/or because they run Dunlop's front-line U.K. made racing tires, which are notoriously unstable. They are not intended to use as a crutch for bad riding habits, nor are they intended for use as a pre-emptive cure for anxiety attacks.

You don't need stiffer steering when you're trying to flip a 550 pound motorcycle from full lean one way to full lean the other as fast as you can in an S-turn.




This makes sense. And the time frame for the poor feeling from the bike is right there. Tomorrow, I will change the oil back to the stock weight. The heavy oil has been slowing me down some. Now the rest is up to me.

 

[BIG GUY]

A lot of it is up to the rider and their ability to take a corner.

 

[aussiekeeper]

True.........However, if the steering is resisting your input, that can't be good. Resistance to input will make one slower...no?

 

[sixpack577]

Each to there own, it's all preference. I drag knees, and don't feel as though the stock dampner does much anyway, but it's better than nothin. I had a bad tank slap years ago on a ZX7 , 6th gear, wide open. It was so violent it flipped the kill switch, I thought I blew the motorthank God I rode home. I'll never be without something there again. Most of the aftermarket ones are really cool now though, you can turn them down to almost nothing, and up to where thebars hardly move.
The pipes on the gen2 will drag road before you do, and as you know, it's all in your head. Good luck with it!

 

[NickSully]

Very interesting read! Thanks for the info!

 

[carlsbadbusa]

stop messing with the damper and light on the bars

 

[Takeuon]

I'd agree that is good advice. Personally I think the stock damper is more then adequate...for me anyways...and I ride fairly hard.

Proper form over function will improve your riding ability each & every time, but it's good to hear that you are becoming more "in tune" w/ your bike & recognized an issue that was hampering you.

 

[aussiekeeper]

Carlsbad...........Thanks for the ass-whoopin'. Changing the oil this week.

 

[aussiekeeper]

I'd agree that is good advice. Personally I think the stock damper is more then adequate...for me anyways...and I ride fairly hard.

Proper form over function will improve your riding ability each & every time, but it's good to hear that you are becoming more "in tune" w/ your bike & recognized an issue that was hampering you.

Worth a try.......I may never be Rossi, but that is OK with me, as long as I am having a good time. I really don't mind bringing up the rear on a ride, the public roads are not a racetrack and there are too many variables on the street also. I may sign up for a track session so I know the surface is safe.

 

[Scar]

Just to be sure everyone understands that after-market steering dampening is not just for cornering, I offer this...

Stiffer steering is extraordinarily beneficial on the freeway, for example, the effect of wind-whip from big-rigs is significantly reduced by dialing in a different setting...or at times when your tires are 'tracking' on seams, cracks or other pavement impurities.

In fact, when I'm in the twisties, personally, I dial my GPR to "0" or the lightest setting, so I can have the most effect on the bike without having to work harder for it.

Everyone has their own 'what-for' on Steering Dampeners.

Glad to hear you're doing your research and making changes for your ultimate 'busa riding confidence, Ron!

Well done!

 

[JDRiderCoach]

Have you taken any training? Sometimes having someone watch you through a turn can reveal what's really going on. Especially if that someone is a trained professional. As others stated, steering dampner is to prevent tank slappers and probably is not factoring much into your cornering, although it does smooth out bumpy turns some. You'd have more impact dialing in the forks for your weight. My 2 cents: take the MSF Experienced Rider Course. It'll reveal what's causing your cornering hangups and at least give you the tips to correct, even if you don't fix it in one day's worth of class. It may be just as simple as learning to trust your bike: it can lean WAY over and still be completely stable.

 

[aussiekeeper]

Just to be sure everyone understands that after-market steering dampening is not just for cornering, I offer this...

Stiffer steering is extraordinarily beneficial on the freeway, for example, the effect of wind-whip from big-rigs is significantly reduced by dialing in a different setting...or at times when your tires are 'tracking' on seams, cracks or other pavement impurities.

In fact, when I'm in the twisties, personally, I dial my GPR to "0" or the lightest setting, so I can have the most effect on the bike without having to work harder for it.

Everyone has their own 'what-for' on Steering Dampeners.

Glad to hear you're doing your research and making changes for your ultimate 'busa riding confidence, Ron!

Well done!

Thanks, Scar.....Yes, the resistance to input is what I have been getting. But I completely forgot about the oil change and thought it was just me loosing brain cells. Uh, well, that is happening too, but in another thread.

 

[aussiekeeper]

Have you taken any training? Sometimes having someone watch you through a turn can reveal what's really going on. Especially if that someone is a trained professional. As others stated, steering dampner is to prevent tank slappers and probably is not factoring much into your cornering, although it does smooth out bumpy turns some. You'd have more impact dialing in the forks for your weight. My 2 cents: take the MSF Experienced Rider Course. It'll reveal what's causing your cornering hangups and at least give you the tips to correct, even if you don't fix it in one day's worth of class. It may be just as simple as learning to trust your bike: it can lean WAY over and still be completely stable.

Your last sentence said most of it. Trust the bike. I see it being done, I am just not confident in the public roads, and blind right handers really freak me out. I don't like the feeling of going full bore into an unknown.........
I will look into the MSF advanced course, there may be one here in San Diego.

 

[JDRiderCoach]

That brings up another point: most riders have a strong and weak side. Just means you need to practice more and work harder on right turns. Mine was my left. Took years to get comfortable. So don't get frustrated about your righties. It's perfectly normal and it will come with patience and practice of proper techniques.

 

[IG.]

My guess is: I don't think your feeling has anything to do with a damper having a thicker oil. What oil did you put in there? Unless you try to turn the handlebars as quickly as Rossi, you won't be able to tell the difference. The natural resistance of the front wheel due to the bikes geometry trail is far greater than the resistance of a damper with the thicker oil.

Observe and time how far do you turn the handlebars and how long does it take to initiate the turn - I mean your countersteering effort. Then, lift the front of the bike so that the fron tire is above the ground and try turning the handlebars with the same effort and speed - see if that is as difficult as it seems.

As to the benefits of steering damper - it's main purpose is to prevent a tankslapper (not a headshake). The conditions causing a tankslapper are rare and may not occur for years. So, there is nothing you can observe or feel during normal riding that will confirm to you that steering damper is working or not working.

I had a thread a while back devoted to tankslappers. Search for it - some food for thought.

 

[IG.]

Have you taken any training? Sometimes having someone watch you through a turn can reveal what's really going on. ....

That's an excellent idea.

 

[aussiekeeper]

That brings up another point: most riders have a strong and weak side. Just means you need to practice more and work harder on right turns. Mine was my left. Took years to get comfortable. So don't get frustrated about your righties. It's perfectly normal and it will come with patience and practice of proper techniques.

I don't have any preference for right or left turns, it is the visual, not being able to see through the turn that gets me. Left turns, I can see through the turn, so, I guess it is the unknown that I am not willing to charge into willingly. I am going to look for an advanced course, even if I have to go out of town. This is like having a good tool and keeping it in the tool box.........By the way, thanks for taking the time with this, it took 40 years to do it wrong, but it will not take long to do it correctly.................

 

[JDRiderCoach]

Ok I gotcha. I know what you mean about visibilty in the turns. If you enter to the outside(the left side of the lane for right turns) you can see more of the turn ahead, then move to the inside for the apex and then exit to the outside. This maximizes visibility throughout the turn. If you can't find a class in SoCal your always welcome to ride out to Vegas and take the class from us. It's only 65 bucks for one day at the Community College. Give you an excuse to come to Vegas for a weekend. I can hook you up with schedules and such if you want. good luck.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Last week my friend and I rode my fav quick route.
He had called me out of the blue and was itchin to show me his cbr1000 would run .

Well we got to same place I always let her go and ran em up thru the gears.
His bike and mine were pretty much neck and neck when we shifted to fifth and I slowly rolled on .

Point is that this place has a little rise in the road where when you go over it the wheel lifts a few inches and comes down .
With the oem damper the wheel would always turn to the right a bit from drag forces , from me cranking on throttle and from the slight angle you go over it.

Ohlins damper five clicks back of full same place a bit faster the bike tracked straight right over it and never missed a beat.

All things were same or more extreme and the afm damper made a big diff.
Not saying when oem was there and it cocked a bit that anything else after that happened as she corrected and kept going but it was much more confidence inspiring to have the wheel stay straight at speed over a rise .

can't say anything as far as turns .

I was so impressed by this diff that I figured more is better and gave it two more clicks harder.
Yesterday while riding I kept feeling like I had a flat or something .
The wheel would not move at all . Then I remembered the two clicks .
Took two click back from hard to first position I had which was five back from all the way and it fixed it right up .

What a diff those two last clicks made.

At five back from all the way hard I'm fine as it tracked straight at speed .
No movement whatsoever .
Again I wont post the data cuz 2hip will spank me .

 

[aussiekeeper]

Ok I gotcha. I know what you mean about visibilty in the turns. If you enter to the outside(the left side of the lane for right turns) you can see more of the turn ahead, then move to the inside for the apex and then exit to the outside. This maximizes visibility throughout the turn. If you can't find a class in SoCal your always welcome to ride out to Vegas and take the class from us. It's only 65 bucks for one day at the Community College. Give you an excuse to come to Vegas for a weekend. I can hook you up with schedules and such if you want. good luck.

Sounds like a deal. When the weather warms up. Are there any other classes available?