Firearms/guns/weapons
- Thread starter proud dad
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I wish I knew the answer. The price has been up and down so much on these and I have not kept up the past few years. What brand AR-15 will be a big factor. There is some junk on the market.
I though the M4 had a 14" barrel. 16" is the minimum barrel length without a $200 tax stamp. It is possible for a flash suppressor to be permanently installed as well to get around it.
I have a couple of early 70s vintage Colts that shoot fantastic. A 16†Carbine and a 20†Sporter. Fun guns to shoot.
I though the M4 had a 14" barrel. 16" is the minimum barrel length without a $200 tax stamp. It is possible for a flash suppressor to be permanently installed as well to get around it.
I have a couple of early 70s vintage Colts that shoot fantastic. A 16†Carbine and a 20†Sporter. Fun guns to shoot.
Panther arms isn't bad, forget the Colt.
Rock River is the shitz. Best AR for the price out there, many features are standard such as a 1" moa @ 100 garuntee.
Rock River Arms
Beware of the junk though, find out what brand it is. The last thing you want to do is spend a good chunk of money and give junk, esecially when for a few hundred more you can get something really good.
Also watch the dealer, make sure he is reputable. A lot of dealer will say a gun is new, knowing the public has no clue one way or the other and charge top dollar.
good luck
Rock River is the shitz. Best AR for the price out there, many features are standard such as a 1" moa @ 100 garuntee.
Rock River Arms
Beware of the junk though, find out what brand it is. The last thing you want to do is spend a good chunk of money and give junk, esecially when for a few hundred more you can get something really good.
Also watch the dealer, make sure he is reputable. A lot of dealer will say a gun is new, knowing the public has no clue one way or the other and charge top dollar.
good luck
SPANKY482
Registered
I have two AR-15's the colt 7.62 cal was $1000 used because it was no longer made when I bought it.
I have just bought a Bushmaster 16in M4 with Izzy Flash Suppressor for $925.00 but my friend owns the gun store retail was 1200.00.
If you are going to buy a AR-15 stick with the big three
Colt
Armalite
Bushmaster
That price you got is a great if it was made by one of the three listed above.
I have just bought a Bushmaster 16in M4 with Izzy Flash Suppressor for $925.00 but my friend owns the gun store retail was 1200.00.
If you are going to buy a AR-15 stick with the big three
Colt
Armalite
Bushmaster
That price you got is a great if it was made by one of the three listed above.
In the market myself.... All good info, keep it coming!
I used to work part time at a gunshop for quite a while.
Colts, the newer the worse, are like buying a harley. You pay extra for the name and they are the victim of shoddy quality.
Bushmasters are o.k. but once the rock rivers came in, we could not hardly give the bushys away.
Rock River is very high quality and for the price of a standard bushmaster you get a two stage national match trigger (which is to die for) standard. You get a 1" moa @ 100yards garuntee...on their "standard" rifle. Ergo hogue grip standard, etc. etc. and more high quality options you could want.
My buddy who works at the shop got a RRiver with a 20" varment barrel. He put a hubble on it and spanked the bolt action guys every weekend in shooting matches at our club. It was brutal.
Armalite makes a nice rifle as well but again, it's pricey for what you get.
Rock River is the big dog.
Just my opinion...
Colts, the newer the worse, are like buying a harley. You pay extra for the name and they are the victim of shoddy quality.
Bushmasters are o.k. but once the rock rivers came in, we could not hardly give the bushys away.
Rock River is very high quality and for the price of a standard bushmaster you get a two stage national match trigger (which is to die for) standard. You get a 1" moa @ 100yards garuntee...on their "standard" rifle. Ergo hogue grip standard, etc. etc. and more high quality options you could want.
My buddy who works at the shop got a RRiver with a 20" varment barrel. He put a hubble on it and spanked the bolt action guys every weekend in shooting matches at our club. It was brutal.
Armalite makes a nice rifle as well but again, it's pricey for what you get.
Rock River is the big dog.
Just my opinion...
Make sure the one you are looking at has all the features that were made legal again after "sunset". It should have the collapsable stock and be able to get the 16" loveralll length barrel and 30rd clips. If you get a removable flash suppressor the barrel should be 16", if it is pinned, the barrel should be 14" plus the suppressor.
In my opinion the M4 barrel is better than the others because of the added metal or if you do not mind the added weight go with the "heavy" barrel. My Bushmaster Patrolman has the m4 barrel with the A3 upper.
Let us know how it turns out.
In my opinion the M4 barrel is better than the others because of the added metal or if you do not mind the added weight go with the "heavy" barrel. My Bushmaster Patrolman has the m4 barrel with the A3 upper.
Let us know how it turns out.
00Negative
Registered
Wish I would have done more research before buying my BM M4A3!
I paid around $900 total. Than you have to add in all the goodies... which adds up w/ a quickness.
I paid around $900 total. Than you have to add in all the goodies... which adds up w/ a quickness.
$700 is a good price for a standard AR-15 type carbine. The AR-15 type platform, much like our beloved 'busas, is very customizable to the point of becoming very expensive very quickly. The problem (and blessing) with the AR-15 type, is that there are at least 10 different manufacturers of each and every part, and different configurations for many parts. You also get a lot of misinformation and myths about them (and firearms in general) from so many "experts".
I get the impression that you wish to give a civilian version of the M-4 to someone who is likely carrying an M-4 on foreign soil. If that is your goal, many companies offer M-4 clones in civilian versions. Most offer a decent product. There will be differences between them and a military M-4. All will have a lower reciever(the part actually considered to be the gun by the U.S. govt.) machined internally different so that the complete selective fire trigger mechanism does not fit. The barrel length will be different as well. The military M-4 has a 14.5 inch barrel length. Rifles must have a barrel length of at least 16 inches in order to not be classified as "Short Barreled Rifles". There are two main non SBR options here: barrels that are 16 inches or longer (usually 16.1 inches), and barrels that are 14.5/14.7 inches long with a permanently attached muzzle device to bring the legal length to 16 inches or slightly over.
I'd consider products by the following manufacturers (in no particular order):
Bushmaster Firearms- Overall they are very good. Sometimes they've been known to let cosmetic flaws go out to the public. They use a non standard rifling twist (1 turn in 9 inches vs. the military 1/7) on most of their barrels. They have been known in the past,when they were smaller, to substitute plastic in place of aluminum on some of the non vital parts likethe trigger guard, handguard retaining ring, and magazine release button.
CMMG- They are a relatively new company that has developed a good reputation for good quality. They specialize in custom barrels in various profiles.
Rock River Arms-They have a reputation for good quality. They have a background in target shooting, and it shows in both good and bad ways (it depends on your point of veiw). Their barrels are usually heavier profile under the handguards. They do not chrome line their barrels as a standard feature (target shooting bias). They attach the front sight base with straight pins rather than the military standard taper pins (no biggie, IMHO). They also use non-millitary standard rifling twist rates.
Colt- They are considered the gold standard by many. If resale value is your main concern, Colt is the one to go with. I'm not a fan for political reasons.
LMT- Considered to be almost as good as Colt by many Colt snobs. They attach the front sight base with straight pins rather than the military standard taper pins. I have no experience with them.
Stag Arms/CMT- They were parts subcontractors for larger manufacturers for many years. They have a good reputation. I have no experience with them.
DPMS- They are a company that produces budget oriented versions of the AR. The earlier products were not known to be of good quality, and their reputation suffers from it. They have improved their quality to the point that I consider them a viable alternative. Some of their parts like the furniture seems substandard, and would have to be changed. They do not chrome line their barrels as a standard feature. I do not know what they use for twist rate, as no chrome lining, for me at least, means I'd plan on changing the barrel any way.
There are others to consider. I'm tired of typing.
Avoid Hesse/Vulcan, and Century International. Some would add SGW/Olympic to the list to avoid.
Karl
I get the impression that you wish to give a civilian version of the M-4 to someone who is likely carrying an M-4 on foreign soil. If that is your goal, many companies offer M-4 clones in civilian versions. Most offer a decent product. There will be differences between them and a military M-4. All will have a lower reciever(the part actually considered to be the gun by the U.S. govt.) machined internally different so that the complete selective fire trigger mechanism does not fit. The barrel length will be different as well. The military M-4 has a 14.5 inch barrel length. Rifles must have a barrel length of at least 16 inches in order to not be classified as "Short Barreled Rifles". There are two main non SBR options here: barrels that are 16 inches or longer (usually 16.1 inches), and barrels that are 14.5/14.7 inches long with a permanently attached muzzle device to bring the legal length to 16 inches or slightly over.
I'd consider products by the following manufacturers (in no particular order):
Bushmaster Firearms- Overall they are very good. Sometimes they've been known to let cosmetic flaws go out to the public. They use a non standard rifling twist (1 turn in 9 inches vs. the military 1/7) on most of their barrels. They have been known in the past,when they were smaller, to substitute plastic in place of aluminum on some of the non vital parts likethe trigger guard, handguard retaining ring, and magazine release button.
CMMG- They are a relatively new company that has developed a good reputation for good quality. They specialize in custom barrels in various profiles.
Rock River Arms-They have a reputation for good quality. They have a background in target shooting, and it shows in both good and bad ways (it depends on your point of veiw). Their barrels are usually heavier profile under the handguards. They do not chrome line their barrels as a standard feature (target shooting bias). They attach the front sight base with straight pins rather than the military standard taper pins (no biggie, IMHO). They also use non-millitary standard rifling twist rates.
Colt- They are considered the gold standard by many. If resale value is your main concern, Colt is the one to go with. I'm not a fan for political reasons.
LMT- Considered to be almost as good as Colt by many Colt snobs. They attach the front sight base with straight pins rather than the military standard taper pins. I have no experience with them.
Stag Arms/CMT- They were parts subcontractors for larger manufacturers for many years. They have a good reputation. I have no experience with them.
DPMS- They are a company that produces budget oriented versions of the AR. The earlier products were not known to be of good quality, and their reputation suffers from it. They have improved their quality to the point that I consider them a viable alternative. Some of their parts like the furniture seems substandard, and would have to be changed. They do not chrome line their barrels as a standard feature. I do not know what they use for twist rate, as no chrome lining, for me at least, means I'd plan on changing the barrel any way.
There are others to consider. I'm tired of typing.
Avoid Hesse/Vulcan, and Century International. Some would add SGW/Olympic to the list to avoid.
Karl
You get what you pay for with an AR. I like Rock River personally. The DEA uses them as do a few other agencies. I noticed that an earlier post referenced Colt as similar to Harley, I must agree. Plus Colt's policies about civilian ownership suck.
+1 on the Colt civilian ownership thing....A-holes and run by Suits that can't get their heads out of butts to save their life.
That's why just about every other company has passed them up in just about every catagory and type of firearm.
I will add that you should check to see what caliber the rifle is chambered for. Most people do not know this but .223 and 5.56 chambered rifles are not the same. Weapons chambered for .223 will not reliably fire 5.56. 2 of my buddies bought Rock Rivers chambered in .223, fired milsurp 5.56 out of them and ended up blowing them apart after a few rounds and the case had to be hammered out by pushing a cleaning rod down the barrel. Not sure if all RR's are chambered for .223 but it's food for thought.
The Rock Rivers I've seen have something called a "wylde chamber" that is supposed to fire both .223 and 5.56, you can read about it on their site. I don't remember if it is an optional thing. But it is good you mentioned it to give people the heads up ahead of time.
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