"FI Code Busting 101"

[JINKSTER]

Man..it's Marrisa's Birthday today and to date?...my poor O-Ren has been down for 3 weeks ever since i adjusted my valves (0ne exhaust valve) and i'm wanting to get'er up and running bad..so...after checking all the usual suspects for continuity?...i went ahead and jumper wired the diagnostics function and came up with the following...

At first start?..The engine "LOPES" and read out a C00 but the TPS sidebar was at the top..so i re-adjusted the TPS sensor until it read "-C00" with the sidebar in the middle as it should be...but it was still "Loping" at an idle..then?...I reved the engine a couple times to 4K rpm and as usual a couple pops and backfires later (which happened within seconds of revving it) here came the FI light..and got fault codes #...

"C24" (ignition coil #1)

and?...

"C27" (ignition coil #4)

anybody got any ideas of where i may've screwed up?

T.I.A. and L8R, Bill.

 

[JINKSTER]

c'mon man...nobodys got any thoughts or ideas here?

BTW...yes..i've already R&R'ed the coil signal wires and boots to make certain the boots are in fact ratcheting down good on the plugs and connectors are in fact "connected".

I'm wide open here folks.

 

[thebbbusa]

I have absolutely no clue. Sorry.

What about the wires, you've got the right ones on the right plugs right?

Did you pull the plugs? If you pulled the plugs could the gaps gotten bumped?

 

[GJoker]

Sorry Jinkster... it's your posts I look for when diggin into the unknown with my Strret Princess~ I wish I had the capabilities to help you out of this jam...  

 

[JINKSTER]

(thebbbusa @ Apr. 21 2007,09:55) I have absolutely no clue.  Sorry.

What about the wires, you've got the right ones on the right plugs right?

Did you pull the plugs?  If you pulled the plugs could the gaps gotten bumped?

Yep...i got the right connectors going to the right plugs...sorta hard to screw up there..they are labled.

I pulled the boots but i didn't bother pulling the plugs as i checked gap prior to installation and then used a sleeved plug socket that kept them centered on the way in...and all went well there so there's little to no doubt in my mind that the plugs are still properly gapped.

This sux as the "Inspect & Test" portions of trouble-shooting ignition faults is fairly intensive..and i'm no "Multi-Meter Electronics Whiz Kid"...my multi-meter skills are pretty much limited to continuity checks..after that?...i gotta start reading.

Somebody better help me get my shid together here quick cause if i don't get to get riding this weekend?...homeys gonna freaking implode...i needs me one of dem "stress relief" kinda rides..badly.

 

[JINKSTER]

For the love of god folks...nobody can help me out with this?

 

[cutter]

Sorry to hear about your troubles- that sucks.

Try swapping coils around. Maybe that can help you isolate the problem to the coil or wiring harness.

Would also make sure the gap is not closed on one of the plugs and that the connectors are not damaged or one of the wires pulled out a bit.

 

[BusaWhipped]

Make sure you have a good conection between the coil and the plug. Other than that, you in over my head.

 

[Red05]

Bill, the problem you had when you didi the turn signals....completely resolved? I remember you had an issue with the bike not running well that was evidently related.

 

[JINKSTER]

(Red05 @ Apr. 22 2007,02:43) Bill, the problem you had when you didi the turn signals....completely resolved? I remember you had an issue with the bike not running well that was evidently related.

yep...that looks like sumpt'in i'm gonna hafta go back and revisit...but i don't see how two turn signal flasher wires could be giving me ignition faults.

yet another beautiful sunday morning goes ripping by and my beloved busa is still...."down"

 

[Wag]

Some stuff from the service manual.

Also, if you look at the diagram, the cam position sensor is one of the devices which affects the ignition timing. Since that is probably the only item you would have messed with during the adjustment process, I would start there. Is it reinstalled correctly?

The other devices in the diagram are.

CKP sensor
Power source circuit
Throttle position sensor
Engine coolant temp sensor
Gear position switch
Engine stop switch
Side-stand relay
Fuse
gnition switch
Battery

Make sure none of the plugs have a crack in the ceramic insulator. If it grounds to the cylinder head, you're screwed. If you cross-threaded the plug, you're screwed no lube.

Battery must be fully charged, yada yada yada.

In my book, the ignition system stuff is on page 7-20 but back up to 7-17 for some other details, especially about the CKP sensor.

Hope that helps. I think your cam position sensor is the problem. Bummer it's buried so deep in the system!

--Wag--

 

[Burger King]

Since your cam position sensor was off are you sure you didn't get the cam gear one tooth off when you re-installed it?

My next guess would be the plug coils or wires.

 

[JINKSTER]

(Wag @ Apr. 22 2007,04:22) Some stuff from the service manual.  

Also, if you look at the diagram, the cam position sensor is one of the devices which affects the ignition timing.  Since that is probably the only item you would have messed with during the adjustment process, I would start there.  Is it reinstalled correctly?  

The other devices in the diagram are.

CKP sensor
Power source circuit
Throttle position sensor
Engine coolant temp sensor
Gear position switch
Engine stop switch
Side-stand relay
Fuse
gnition switch
Battery

Make sure none of the plugs have a crack in the ceramic insulator.  If it grounds to the cylinder head, you're screwed.  If you cross-threaded the plug, you're screwed no lube.

Battery must be fully charged, yada yada yada.

In my book, the ignition system stuff is on page 7-20 but back up to 7-17 for some other details, especially about the CKP sensor.

Hope that helps.  I think your cam position sensor is the problem.  Bummer it's buried so deep in the system!

--Wag--

Well?..I just pulled all 4 boots and plugs and all four brand new NGK plugs i just installed are BLACK as sin...which has me wondering if it's possible that this is a fueling related issue that's RESULTING in ignition faults as when i first start the bike up?..she idles relatively normal for like the 1st 3-5 seconds...and then the stumbling/loping/surging crap starts..but then?...the FI warning light doesn't come to life unless i wick on a few revs to about 4Krpms..and then?..when i have it jumped into diagnostic mode?..that's when i get the C24/C27 ignition fault codes...also?..i've done this a few times now and there's been a couple times where i'd just get a C24 (#1 coil fault) or?.."just" a C27 (#4 coil fault)..but not both all the time every time..which has me thinking that i'm missing sumpt'in that's affecting the fueling system and the bike is loading up and fouling out the new plugs which is in turn showing up as an "ignition fault"...which is just the snowball end of a fueling/vacuum issue that's fouling out the new plugs.

Is that possible?

Otherwise?..I had horrible thoughts about the CPS as well...but the thing is this...the cam position sensor is on the intake side...and i never removed the intake cam as it was an exhaust valve i adjusted...so i'm thinking the CPS is just fine as i never removed the intake cam nor did i dismount the sensor itself from it's original valve cover position...i just unplugged the connector..carefully.

But reality is...my bikes still down and i'm still at a loss...but next?..i'm going after my old IAT sensor relocation mod..i used crimp connectors when i did that mod but since then?..I purchased a "Cold Heat" soldering iron...it may not be the problem but...i'll still feel better trading the crimp connectors out for soldered and heat shrinked connections on my IAT relocation mod...which btw has worked just dandy for the past 10K miles..but who knows..maybe sumpt'in got inadvertently tugged on...grabbing at straws here.

 

[GPW]

I had a similar problem on another bike. The RPM (tach) feed from the ECU had backout (the pin cam loose). It gave me the same error codes you have. Track down the RPM feed wire which is the white/blue off the left side of the ECU. Be sure all is well with it from the ECU all the way up to coil pack number one. Just a thought.

Greg

 

[JINKSTER]

(Burger King @ Apr. 22 2007,05:01) Since your cam position sensor was off are you sure you didn't get the cam gear one tooth off when you re-installed it?

My next guess would be the plug coils or wires.

Man...you would hafta bring that up wouldn't you!

That's ALWAYS a concern and i'm just about to the point that i am going to yank the valve cover back off again and re-inspect my ignition timing lines..what the heck...i might as well do that now while i got the plugs and boots out anyways..fug...if that's what it is?...I'm gonna slam my head into a wall...then again?..that would be fantastic if that is "What It Is"..as i can fix that...and then finally do what i need to do so badly...

ride.

 

[JINKSTER]

Alrighty then!...the valve cover is off and i'm re-inspecting my cam timing marks...and in my own defense i need to say that when i dis-assy'ed it the first time?...I mentally noted where the marks where and they weren't what i'd call "exactly spot on" as the manual calls out...as even when my starterclutch/crank lines were lined up dead nuts?...my exhaust cam showed the "1 arrow" angled ever so slightly premature of lining up with the cylinder head plane..as in...is wasn't in perfect alignment as stock...but checking one tooth rearward or one tooth forward would have had it grossly out of position..so i could only assume that it was just a tad out-of-alignment as stock oem...and it still is...and that i was able to take before/after pix of...however...my exhaust cam?...it definantly appears that somewhere's between counting cam chain links and fussing with re-installing the exhaust cam and formulating a pictorial/tutorial as i proceeded?...it seems that somewhere's along the line my intake cam did jump a tooth..and i do recall things getting jilted a tad loose when the cam chain relieved itself after the tensioner was released and removed...the first time the cam chain jumped off the teeth..and then?..when i glanced at the intake cam timing mark (as i re-assy'ed everything) i think i paralexed it (looking from the side as it's difficult to see behind the frame spar) and my eyes mistook square to the engine with square to the world....as it was pointing striaght up...something the engine doesn't do and so much for "mental notes" from a senile old street hoolie.

Anyways...it appears that the intake may possibly be retarded (like it's owner

) by one tooth..with strong emphasis on the word "possibly"...but i don't think i'll hurt a thing by advancing it one tooth to see if that #3 arrow on my intake cam hits a more "Perpendicular" position unto my valve cover plane...which would be more in keeping with the manual if it does...just to see..so?..now i pull the CCT (cam chain tensioner) and top Damper and loose the cam chain and repostion the intake cam..and if that ain't it?..then i blow some weed..get drunk...stumble out into the back yard and take a dirt nap the rest of the afternoon....and wake up with a 1000 red ant bites...my luck.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions ya'll and especially to burger king who asked the very question that my ego has purposly been avoiding and...L8R, Bill.

 

[JINKSTER]

Well folks...the jury has returned and the "PRELIMINARY" trouble-shooting results are in...and after using my florescent drop-light and my oldest daughters cosmetic compact mirror to get in there and see better?..i loosened the cam chain and rotated the intake cam forward by one tooth and viola....the #3 arrow came into straight up alignment with the engine leaving little doubt that i fugged up the first time around and lost orientation of my intake cam sprocket by one tooth...which makes perfect sense as to why the other default signs came into existance..including the jet black carboned up new sparkplugs..as it appears my CPS (cam position sensor) had the ignition timing theoretically retarded by one tooth...and hopefully this is all my old 1/2 blind azz botched up.

Hey!...maybe if i bust my azz i can get a ride in tonight!

L8R, Bill.

 

[Burger King]

Glad you got it fixed. Have a great ride today!

 

[JINKSTER]

I just fire'ed'er up and...SHAAAZAAM!

And the cool parts (besides saving myself several hundred on a valve adjust) is...

1. Even though i screwed up a touch?..it turned out to be a good thing as it forced me to become very familiar with the busa's self diagnostic capabilities..which is definantly cool..(Note: Remember i'm an old school naked bike rider...and while i got CV carbs down pat?..this FI computer controlled shid is still relatively new to me.) but?..not anymore!

and?...

2. My throttle is NOTICABLY quicker responding since i did notice that the diagnostics showed my TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) to be a touch out of adjustment and damn is that thing sensitive to set and adjust properly...as in...very touchy with an extremely small "You Got It In The Right Position" zone..as in..there is no "zone"....it's either "spot on" or?...wrong...and it takes a little patience to get it there but well worth the effort accoding to my current throttle response..which is now triple tap worthy "Dead Bang".

So?...shortly after i remove the freaking shiddy azz defective Clear Alternatives led front turn signals and smash them to smithereens so no one else even sells them again to anyone and put the stock turn signals back in?...i can button'er up and ride....O-Ren...the badazz biotch from tokyo rides again!

Thanks ya'll and L8R, Bill.

 

[nitrousjunkie]

Youre becoming quite the busa technician there Bill.