Any point adding a power commander to a bone stock bike?



clean

Registered
Hi guys,

Is there any point adding a power commander to a bone stock bike?

At this point I'm not planning to change the stock exhaust. It's heavy, but it's quiet - I don't want them to hear me coming.... oh and it's way cheaper than buying a full exhaust package!


I know very little about tuning except that generally stock mapping can be lean and restricted due to regulations.

A few more ponies and faster acceleration would be nice, but also a smoother more linear power curve would also be desirable.

So any point in a power commander on a stocker? Or better off with the ECU Flash?

Which Power Commander would you recommend, or is there anybody you can send your ECU to have flashed for a stock bike?


What's the best way to go? Or just leave it alone?



Thanks.
 

Berlin Germany

Registered
hi 12 h later than me
here is germany, 12 h ahead
yes i learn - loool -


at clean - to your question.

from the year of construction 2001 until today, all busa have two basic limitations.
1. max speed = 298 km / h ~ 185 mph
2. a kind of rpm - limitation in 2nd and 3rd gear

point 2 is intended to comply with the environmental regulations for test drives for general approval for road traffic, which means that the exhaust gas values and the volume levels do not become too high.
as a result, a test bench diagram in the middle speed range shows these dents in terms of power and torque.
if you really want to smooth and optimize this torque curve correctly, you must change the mapping in the ecu - flash.
however, this is only possible from the year of construction 2002 and later.
to flash you need a computer program and a special usb-interface - PetriK from Finland e.g. developed something like that.
with this program, the overall behavior of the engine can be influenced in all rpm´s.
please note that the mapping of the ecu of the gen1 (00-07) can only be overwritten.
from year of construction 2008 (until today) you can even read out the existing mapping, then change / adapt it and import it again.

my opinion about it:
In contrast to flashing the ecu via pc, using a "power commander" means only scratching the surface.

and what is also important:
for really optimal performance, the mapping must be adapted to all technical conversions - ideally on the test bench.
the conversions include:
1. the type of air filter (standard vs. e.g. K&N, BMC, ...)
2. changing the intake manifold in the air filter
3. the replacement of the silencers / mufflers
4. changing the exhaust system from 4-2 to 4-1

for pretty much all possible combinations of these points (1 - 4) there are at least various mappings available for download here in Germany or via the German hayabusa forum (hayabusa.de).
but ALLWAYS it is necessary to specify the exact types of the other components used, because e.g. a complete akrapovic 4-1 requires a different mapping than a standard system with akrapovic silencers.
It continues with the air filter - which exactly is installed with which exhaust because depending on the filter and exhaust there is a different mapping, and so on

in general the following can be said:
if you really want to do it right, changing (flashing) the mapping, including the accompanying test bench, is the only choice.

and
the best way to save (a lot of) money is to leave the busa as it is.
 

Berlin Germany

Registered
happy new year to NZ ;-)

i´m already in 2020 for 12 h - you i think for arround 15 minutes, right?

and yes to your advice - same like mine in my last sentence
 
Short answer,nope leave as is.
Hi. +1 to that. If you want to keep it quiet and slow that is cool, it is still an OK bike. We all have to work with in our $ to play with. If I could spend $5,000.00 per pass down the 1/4 mile and a few $100,000,000.00 a year for an F1 team and a motor GP team I would,. I do not think I would ride the GP bike, just own the team. I know I would drive the F1 car and TF car. I know for sure I would get hurt on the bike,
 

Dopey

Registered
Hi guys,

Is there any point adding a power commander to a bone stock bike?

At this point I'm not planning to change the stock exhaust. It's heavy, but it's quiet - I don't want them to hear me coming.... oh and it's way cheaper than buying a full exhaust package!


I know very little about tuning except that generally stock mapping can be lean and restricted due to regulations.

A few more ponies and faster acceleration would be nice, but also a smoother more linear power curve would also be desirable.

So any point in a power commander on a stocker? Or better off with the ECU Flash?

Which Power Commander would you recommend, or is there anybody you can send your ECU to have flashed for a stock bike?


What's the best way to go? Or just leave it alone?



Thanks.
If your going to spend the money on having it dynoed along with the power commander then yes the bike will benefit from the power commander even being stock. If you don't plan on putting it on thr dyno then just send the ecu to be flashed.
 

clean

Registered
Thanks guys, who's the best in north America (or better yet canada) to flash the ecu for a stock setup? What kind of gains can one expect? Will my butt dyno know the difference? :thumbsup:
 

Mr Brown

Registered
Thanks guys, who's the best in north America (or better yet canada) to flash the ecu for a stock setup? What kind of gains can one expect? Will my butt dyno know the difference? :thumbsup:
What year bike? Rob has already been pinged in the thread, he'll be along to explain what your options are. He is who you need to send it to, but he'll need to know what year bike you have.
 

Notenoughtoys

Registered
Thanks guys, who's the best in north America (or better yet canada) to flash the ecu for a stock setup?
Am in the same boat - I am planning on packing my ecu well and sending mine south of the border to Boosted Cycle in the next couple of weeks - just not sure of cost, payment method and return shipping details. I sent a PM about a month ago but no response yet. My bike just has slipons and some minor lowering so nothing radical by any means
 

Mr Brown

Registered
Am in the same boat - I am planning on packing my ecu well and sending mine south of the border to Boosted Cycle in the next couple of weeks - just not sure of cost, payment method and return shipping details. I sent a PM about a month ago but no response yet. My bike just has slipons and some minor lowering so nothing radical by any means
His PM's stay full! Best way to get him is to @Boosted Cycle Perf him. He'll see this thread and respond I'm sure.
 

clean

Registered
What year bike? Rob has already been pinged in the thread, he'll be along to explain what your options are. He is who you need to send it to, but he'll need to know what year bike you have.
2008


Am in the same boat - I am planning on packing my ecu well and sending mine south of the border to Boosted Cycle in the next couple of weeks - just not sure of cost, payment method and return shipping details. I sent a PM about a month ago but no response yet. My bike just has slipons and some minor lowering so nothing radical by any means
Yes it would be nice to know the cost. A few years ago I sent my concours 14 ecu down to Florida to be flashed by the #1 concours guy in north america. He was adamant about insuring the return package for 1200 USD.....long story short the customs bill was ridiculous when it got back. would be really sweet if someone could do it in Canada to avoid all that customs BS, but if not oh well....most of the best guys will no doubt be in the USA.
 

Mythos

Registered
You probably have enough info on this but since I wondered the same thing when I first got into sport bikes ten years ago I thought I'd chime in. I ended up getting a PC5 for my 08 ZX-14 with flies out and otherwise bone stock. I put a flies out map in it from a reputable shop.

No difference from stock fueling.

Tried a DJ map.

No difference.

Tried a reputable tuner's map with full system, flies out and BMC Race Filter.

Small difference. I think it was the pipe more than the map.

I ran the bike on that map for eight years at which time I got into self tuning. Put in a new map from a respected friend/builder/tuner.

LOL No real difference!!!!

I used Autotune to adjust this map and I noticed a couple of nice nuances in small throttle response but no glaring improvement in power.

Long>Short-----AFR tuning is beneficial for tuning and in more extreme cases it is necessary for safety. You won't be floored by the improvement unless the bike was running poorly beforehand.

Next tuning adventure for me is timing and I hope that gets my attention more than the fueling did. I'm into it but at this point, I do not believe tuning makes as much of a change as many everyday riders claim.

a smoother more linear power curve would also be desirable.
I guess but the busa is exceptionally linear IMHO. It should be if it's running properly. There are a couple restrictions with flies and/or timing retard at certain speeds and rpm but dang this thing is just smooth and linear all the way from bottom to top. More so than my 08 ZX-14.

Which Power Commander would you recommend, or is there anybody you can send your ECU to have flashed for a stock bike?
If you get a Power Commander, get the PC5 with secondary flies harness for Hayabusa. Also research using the PC5+ignition. You will get all the capabilities of the PC and the Ignition Module. I do not know if the PC5+Ignition permits you to connect as many switches (if you get into it that much) but that would be the only con I can think of.

What's the best way to go? Or just leave it alone?
I'd get a flash when you are ready to get a full system exhaust. Might as well if you are running a full system. The tuner might recommend the use of a PC5 with his flash. Many do that. You might have to get a little familiar with the old school electronics even if you get a flash. It is not hard and you only need to bother with installing a map once.

2. a kind of rpm - limitation in 2nd and 3rd gear
I notice some kind of a restriction here when I'm on the gas hard. a sudden burst into full power after I reach a certain rpm.

Short answer,nope leave as is.
:thumbsup: If you are going to keep the bike stock for now, there's no need for a PC5. It might be a fun toy to get familiar with if you intend to mod but it really doesn't make a world of dif without mods and even after basic mods----not a hell of a lot of difference IMO. But cool and worthwhile if you're into the whole modding scene.
 

clean

Registered
You probably have enough info on this but since I wondered the same thing when I first got into sport bikes ten years ago I thought I'd chime in. I ended up getting a PC5 for my 08 ZX-14 with flies out and otherwise bone stock. I put a flies out map in it from a reputable shop.

No difference from stock fueling.

Tried a DJ map.

No difference.

Tried a reputable tuner's map with full system, flies out and BMC Race Filter.

Small difference. I think it was the pipe more than the map.

I ran the bike on that map for eight years at which time I got into self tuning. Put in a new map from a respected friend/builder/tuner.

LOL No real difference!!!!

I used Autotune to adjust this map and I noticed a couple of nice nuances in small throttle response but no glaring improvement in power.

Long>Short-----AFR tuning is beneficial for tuning and in more extreme cases it is necessary for safety. You won't be floored by the improvement unless the bike was running poorly beforehand.

Next tuning adventure for me is timing and I hope that gets my attention more than the fueling did. I'm into it but at this point, I do not believe tuning makes as much of a change as many everyday riders claim.


I guess but the busa is exceptionally linear IMHO. It should be if it's running properly. There are a couple restrictions with flies and/or timing retard at certain speeds and rpm but dang this thing is just smooth and linear all the way from bottom to top. More so than my 08 ZX-14.



If you get a Power Commander, get the PC5 with secondary flies harness for Hayabusa. Also research using the PC5+ignition. You will get all the capabilities of the PC and the Ignition Module. I do not know if the PC5+Ignition permits you to connect as many switches (if you get into it that much) but that would be the only con I can think of.


I'd get a flash when you are ready to get a full system exhaust. Might as well if you are running a full system. The tuner might recommend the use of a PC5 with his flash. Many do that. You might have to get a little familiar with the old school electronics even if you get a flash. It is not hard and you only need to bother with installing a map once.


I notice some kind of a restriction here when I'm on the gas hard. a sudden burst into full power after I reach a certain rpm.



:thumbsup: If you are going to keep the bike stock for now, there's no need for a PC5. It might be a fun toy to get familiar with if you intend to mod but it really doesn't make a world of dif without mods and even after basic mods----not a hell of a lot of difference IMO. But cool and worthwhile if you're into the whole modding scene.
Thanks @Mythos , ill probably just leave it for now, but If I do get a full exhaust system in the future isn't a AFR tune pretty much mandatory? don't bikes pick up 15-30 hp with a full exhaust and tune?....sounds like your saying even with a full exhaust a tune doesn't make a hell of a lot of a difference?
 

HayaWakened

Registered
Thanks @Mythos , ill probably just leave it for now, but If I do get a full exhaust system in the future isn't a AFR tune pretty much mandatory? don't bikes pick up 15-30 hp with a full exhaust and tune?....sounds like your saying even with a full exhaust a tune doesn't make a hell of a lot of a difference?
@c10 has multiple threads and experience on this topic for his Gen 2 (and maybe even a video or two). If I remember correctly, his 2014 Gen 2 has a full exhaust system with no AFR tuning except a basic flash to the ECU. He has logged a ton a miles in this config with no issues. A full exhaust does not mandate a change to the AFR. [Find the thread that discusses the OEM AFR for these bikes.) c10 and/or others will correct me if I'm wrong. I am currently running a similar config (421 Ti exhaust / Yosh R77 slipon / basic flash, and have logged about 1500mi so far with no issues and none expected. Again, if I remember correctly, you are not racing your bike, so I believe you are safe installing a full exhaust and not worrying about a matching tune.

Personally, a tune is on my bike's list, but I'm waiting (saving up) for a dyno tune to map the AFR through the ECU. I believe the consensus on this forum is that such a tune optimizes the bike's performance, but it is not requisite merely because of the addition of a full exhaust.
 

Sandow

Registered
Thanks @Mythos , ill probably just leave it for now, but If I do get a full exhaust system in the future isn't a AFR tune pretty much mandatory? don't bikes pick up 15-30 hp with a full exhaust and tune?....sounds like your saying even with a full exhaust a tune doesn't make a hell of a lot of a difference?
Long story short. Get the ECU flash. I had it done on all my busas so far and its a difference like day and night especially in the lower rpms. Also the fan comes on earlier which helps when you ride in high heat. (taking away the max restriction is just a bonus.)
I looked before to get it flashed - Nothing on vancouver Island and a few places offer it in vancouver but they charge you between 400 and 500 canadian dollars.(which is NUTS- I paid 60 US dollars!!)
I shipped my ECU to powerhouse last season. He is not a sponsor anymore on the forum- But like others mentioned- @Boosted Cycle Perf does it as well!
 


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