5th to 6th False Neutral

[eynlai]

This is what I posted in response to BusaHaya's post:

'I read all about how to "shift like you mean it", "shift harder", "adjust your peg", already.

A while back on this same subject someone else DID post another response, that if it's only doing it in 5th to 6th, but not in any of the other gears, that means it's not problem with the rider's shifting habits.

The more I thought about it, the more it made sense. You're shifting the lever up, BUT that does not mean that the position of the lever itself is getting that much higher, if any at all, in relations to your rest peg.

I did bring this up to the Service Manager, Pete, at the dealer that I just got my 15000 service at, and it agrees that it doesn't sound right and doubt it's rider error, or badly adjusted rest peg/clutch peg. If it was, it should do it in at least one of the other gear transitions, or all of them, not just 5th to 6th. He thinks it might have something to do the the "bone" in the tranny. Busahaya and I was pondering what he was talking about and we guess it might be the shift fork since it looks like a wishbone in the manual.

He said his Suzuki Regional service guy is pretty cool and he'll ask him.

Oh, and that dispells the whole, it's the oil theory too.

I don't know how that got started, to just "shift harder", but it's not the answer.

By the way, I initially bought that whole "shift harder" myth too, and for a time was "setting" up to shift into 6th really hard. Worked for awhile then I started re-encountering the hole. '

 

[Mr Brown]

The shifter return location is actually a little higher for each gear, so shift it harder does work. If you consider for a moment that from 5th to 6th is the same distance as 1st to 2nd, but your starting place is a little higher, it makes sense. At least, it works that way for me.

 

[eynlai]

Here is my situation, but I don't think any of you need to be in the same status:

I have a 3 year extended warranty with First Extended Service Corporation until 3/5/07.

If the problem persists, and the So. Cal. Suzuki Regional service guy won't offer to fix it. I would like to formally bring this matter to Suzuki of America's attention by drafting and sending a letter with my information to ask for repair. After seeing so many other Busa owners that experience this problem (whether you believe in the "hard shift" myth or not), those that would like to be included in the letter should PM me. I'll likely need your information, probably nothing more than your Busa's VIN.

I'll of coarse submit a final draft to this board (or only those involved and submitted to me) for review before I send it off to Suzuki and CC my dealer's Service Manager on this matter.

Let me or BusaHaya know guys and gals.

 

[Mr Brown]

Just my .02, but don't you think you should gather some proof of a mechanical malfunction before taking it to the next level? I'm sure they'll require some.......
I've had the problem also, but I'm pretty sure that given the inconsistency of the problem mine was attributable to rider error.

 

[TIMMYDUCK]

My thoughts on the false nuetrals is that the pressure in the slave cylinder of the clutch decreases with use, thus not disengaging the clutch basket as well.
There is an o-ring in the slave that will wear and eventually fail as it did to me on my last 03 model.
unfortunatly the o-ring is not replacable and a whole new slave is required.
Just my thoughts, so no flaming .

 

[eynlai]

Just my .02, but don't you think you should gather some proof of a mechanical malfunction before taking it to the next level? I'm sure they'll require some.......
I've had the problem also, but I'm pretty sure that given the inconsistency of the problem mine was attributable to rider error.

Very true. Not taking to that next level yet. Just planning... Maybe a bridge that I won't have to cross since I'm still under warranty.

I have both the prepaid maintenance & extended warranty, so Pete (the service manager) is pretty sure I'm covered as long as I don't have modifications that they can blame it on. Which I don't.

If it does come down to it, where there's tear down and rebuild involved, warranty paid or not, I just want to make sure Suzuki knows and will be cool enough to fix those busa owners that are not in warranty.

 

[WWJD]

the fact that it has happened between 5th and 6th to SO MANY other decent riders, tells me there is room for design improvement

 

[bronc3]

Seems to have something to do with the shift into sixth also hitting the "stop" (lever won't click up after sixth). First and sixth are the only gears that you encounter this with, shifting down to first is generally a very low RPM operation, but sixth is a bit more RPM, even taking it easy. Also a little more difficult to pull up with your foot as opposed to pushing down. Wearing proper boots with top pads seems to help me alot.

 

[Lucky34]

after initial break-in i havent had any probs.

 

[DAB]

I did have some shifting issues when the bike's mileage was under 1,000 miles. The box has loosened up since then.

Have you tried adjusting the shift lever down a little?
If so, does it make any difference?
What kind of footpegs do you have?

I haven't had a shifting problem since I:

1) Ground the rubber down on my foot pegs.
2) Adjusted the shifter down/fitted it to my foot position.
3) Lubed the links on the shifter.
4) Put some miles on the bike.

Maybe I get a more positive shift because the rubber on my footpeg doesn't flex as much as it used to, and I get more of my foot under the shifter. Or maybe I've just got used to the way the 'Busa shifts, and I subconciously compensate for its shortcomings.

Either way I'm curious as to the outcome of your letter to Suzuki.

Just because I don't have the problem anymore doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.

I don't think I've read any magazine reviews that mention the problem though, and usually poor shifting vs slick gearboxes gets a mention in bike comparisons etc.

 

[busadad]

My 04 sometimes has a problem from 4'th to 5'th. It seems like the shift goes half way and then when you let the clutch out it "clunks" into gear. I just hit 3000 miles and went to a synthetic blend and things seem to be smoothing out a little. Has anyone else had this happen?

 

[lot boy]

hmmm-- i have an 05'--and in 1300 miles i have had 3 false neutrals--all in 5th to 6th. I thought that perhaps i didnt shift firm and forgot about it really-but after reading the posts im thinkin-maybe there is somthing to it?
Good news is that i work in a service dept
Believe me im gonna look into it --

 

[lot boy]

well so far nothing -may be a bit longer for problem to surface -i'll be watching tho

 

[busahaya]

WElcome to the board Lot Boy, thanks for going that extra mile for us

 

[The Big Red One]

This is what I posted in response to BusaHaya's post:

'I read all about how to "shift like you mean it", "shift harder", "adjust your peg", already.  

A while back on this same subject someone else DID post another response, that if it's only doing it in 5th to 6th, but not in any of the other gears, that means it's not problem with the rider's shifting habits.

The more I thought about it, the more it made sense.  You're shifting the lever up, BUT that does not mean that the position of the lever itself is getting that much higher, if any at all, in relations to your rest peg.

I did bring this up to the Service Manager, Pete, at the dealer that I just got my 15000 service at, and it agrees that it doesn't sound right and doubt it's rider error, or badly adjusted rest peg/clutch peg.  If it was, it should do it in at least one of the other gear transitions, or all of them, not just 5th to 6th.  He thinks it might have something to do the the "bone" in the tranny.  Busahaya and I was pondering what he was talking about and we guess it might be the shift fork since it looks like a wishbone in the manual.

He said his Suzuki Regional service guy is pretty cool and he'll ask him.

Oh, and that dispells the whole, it's the oil theory too.

I don't know how that got started, to just "shift harder", but it's not the answer.

By the way, I initially bought that whole "shift harder" myth too, and for a time was "setting" up to shift into 6th really hard.  Worked for awhile then I started re-encountering the hole. '

I have a few thoughts on this. I hit the false neutral twice on the way home from the dealership with about 15-20 miles on the bike...and I've never hit it again. I don't shift my Busa any harder than any other bike I've ever owned. In fact its the easiest bike to shift I've ever owned. What I do is move my foot farther up, and it shifts perfectly. I don't believe in pounding anything I own...just wears it out quicker. Just try lifting your foot a little farther during your shift...or bring your shifter down abit. You wanna ride a hard shifting bike, find a bigger Kawi....I've owned a few...loved'em but hated the box-o-rocks trannies.....the Busa trannnie's in a whole 'nother class

 

[BusaWhipped]

I have a 2005 with 3000 mile.  I still have the false neutral into 6th a couple of times a week.  It only happens when I'm taking it easy on the slab.  If I'm running it hard, no problem.  I'm sure I'm shifting different between the 2, but I'm wondering if there is a relationship between RPM and the false neutral.  When I am taking it easy, the shift into 6th feels like the 1 - 2 shift through neutral.  None of the other shifts feel this way.

 

[lot boy]

well i have asked all the techs at the shop and they all agree we would be seeing bikes comming in with bent shift forks ect...
we sell alot of busas and no 1 has reported the problem-im starting to think its a lazy shift thing

believe me if i think there is anything to it ill post my findings::

 

[busadad]

Thanks for checking LB. I also asked the techs at the local shop and they said many bikes have false neutral problems??? Let me know if you hear anything else.

 

[BusaWhipped]

I told the service guy about it when I took it in for the 600 mile service. They just told me to shift it "firmer".

 

[xyu]

I have a 2005 with 3000 mile.  I still have the false neutral into 6th a couple of times a week.  It only happens when I'm taking it easy on the slab.  If I'm running it hard, no problem.  I'm sure I'm shifting different between the 2, but I'm wondering if there is a relationship between RPM and the false neutral.  When I am taking it easy, the shift into 6th feels like the 1 - 2 shift through neutral.  None of the other shifts feel this way.

I know what you mean. My bike does the EXACT same thing. When I'm running it hard it never does it but when im just cruisin' it happens quite a bit.


It was worse when my bike was new but 4500 kms later and an oil change it hasn't completely gone away. I have had a couple of false neutrals racing down straight stretches but I wasn't using my clutch after second gear so that probably doesn't help any...