12 million mexicans cant be wrong.. some going home

[Projekt]

First of all, the term "allien" is for me disturbing. They are human, just like you and your family. All those people want is same thing as you and your family desire. They'd love to pay tax and be the part of this great nation.

Men and women crossing the border illegally, are the most driven, courageous, resourceful people from their native land. Can you imagine going to China without speaking a word of their language and be succesful?

People who try to improve their lives are not criminals, they are heros for their family. Stop criminizing innocent people, just because you fear for your well being.

They are here because our system allows them to be here. Our economic system depends on their cheap labor. If our system runs out of thir usefulness, they will be shut out. Trust me.

Next 50 years, most of California's social system will be financed by the tax paid by so called "Hispanic" constituency. Do you really think it's wase to allienate that segment of population by continuing to label them with such words as I mentioned earlier?
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Projekt]

That is why I am going to kill the other two people at work who are up for the same job as me. After all, I'm just trying to improve my life.

That is the most ridiculous post we have had here so far. ???
It just goes to show your perspective about these people.

 

[BusaWhipped]

Stop criminizing innocent people, just because you fear for your well being.

Stop vitimizing criminals. They knowingly and willfully committed a fellony. Regardless of what their intensions are, that makes them a criminal same as the guy that carjacks you becasue he wants a better life. Or are carjackers also a victims because they didn't have all of the same opportunities someone else in the courtry had?

And Projeckt, wanting the US to enforce the INS laws does not make me a Natzi. What does not knowing the differece say about you?

 

[BusaWhipped]

That is the most ridiculous post we have had here so far. ???
It just goes to show your perspective about these people.

No, you still have the honor of having the most rediculous post in the thread.

 

[BusaWhipped]

That is the most ridiculous post we have had here so far. ???
It just goes to show your perspective about these people.

I'm not sure how this is linked back to his perspective about illegal aliens. He is making a point about the argument set forth that its alright to commit a felony as long as you are doing it to better your way of life. Try to keep up here.

 

[Dino]

So Dino your compassion runs deep and there isnt a thing wrong with that but before you tell me that I should open my borders to allow anyone to come in to my country and mooch the free health care and food I suggest that you and pebbles sell your busas and offer that money the homeless and needy...

Yeah thats what I thought, I can see that your compassion only runs deep enough to allow them into the country, are you willing to sacrifice your shiny Hayabusa so that someone can eat? Come on man they are humans right?

Come into the country legally and learn the language, pay taxes and then you can reap the rewards our fantastic country has to offer, health care, food stamps, and education for your kids and I will welcome you with open arms. Cross the borders at night and take jobs and send the money back to your family in another country, use the tax dollars that I contribute without offering anything back into the system and I say ship them back....

What about all the people that are paying into the system in the US that can't get health care or support because they make too much money or they are not flat broke, should we cast those US citizens away so we can blow billions support the aliens that have infestitated our country...

The day you sell you Busa and offer the proceeds to the food shelter is the day you can begin to lecture me on the poor souls that don't have food. Your compassion is unrivaled but your convictions don't seem to run nearly as deep!

CAp

Cap,

First, you have no clue as to what we do for charity, nor what we have done in service to this great country.

You do know that we will step up for any member here in their time of need to the best of our ability. So it is very disappointing to hear you say something like: “Yeah thats what I thought, I can see that your compassion only runs deep enough to allow them into the country, are you willing to sacrifice your shiny Hayabusa so that someone can eat? Come on man they are humans right?

Frankly, it is beneath you. I have always thought you were better than that.

 

[Dino]

First of all, the term "allien" is for me disturbing. They are human, just like you and your family. All those people want is same thing as you and your family desire. They'd love to pay tax and be the part of this great nation.

Men and women crossing the border illegally, are the most driven, courageous, resourceful people from their native land. Can you imagine going to China without speaking a word of their language and be succesful?

People who try to improve their lives are not criminals, they are heros for their family. Stop criminizing innocent people, just because you fear for your well being.

They are here because our system allows them to be here. Our economic system depends on their cheap labor. If our system runs out of thir usefulness, they will be shut out. Trust me.

Next 50 years, most of California's social system will be financed by the tax paid by so called "Hispanic" constituency. Do you really think it's wase to allienate that segment of population by continuing to label them with such words as I mentioned earlier?
Posted via Mobile Device

Thankfully, I have seen a few other posts from members who “get itâ€. What is great about this country is the compassion we show to those less fortunate. It is a common thread through our history as a nation, one that seems to have been forgotten.

I have seen the use of the term “take jobsâ€. Who exactly are these people “taking jobs†from? Unemployment is at 9% there should not be this issue of taking jobs. Why are there not American citizens lined up to get these jobs? If they are why are they not getting them? Here is a thought, if you are so passionately against illegal aliens why not go after those that employ them? You know the ones who are actually giving them jobs. Lets strip out the humanity (which seems to be easier for a lot of us) and look at it purely in terms of supply and demand. If there were no supply of jobs then demand would go down and there wouldn’t be any incentive to risk everything by crossing the boarders. Right?

The “legal†argument is crap. Laws are passed and repealed all the time. So just because it is a law doesn’t make it right. As an example, think about being abortion. Abortion is legal, but is it right?

I understand that these people are an easy target, but doing the right thing is not usually the easiest thing. Attacking them is wrong, it is easy, but it is wrong. They, just like everyone else, are simply trying to feed their families just like you and me.

 

[Laylas_Mom]

I will not chime in my opinion on the subject but would like to suggest maybe it gets killed off asap cause I know from experience Dino can be relentless (no offense buddy).... Maybe we all should agree to disagree.... and get back the the busa talk

FYI, to be Christian is to be flawed...we do not claim to be perfect we just strive to be as Christ-like as possible. We are all a work in progress....

 

[captain]

you have no clue as to what we do for charity

We are not talking about you donating a couple of hours to the local food bank. If your claiming that you're military service was in any way to honor or serve the aliens in this country then I look forward to seeing your reply. You continue to post that these people are human and deserve better, they don't deserve anything. Natural citizens don't deserve anything either, they should work for it! Aliens have a legal path to obtain citizenship to enjoy the fruits that this country has to offer. They are cancer on society as long as they are not paying taxes and are not held to the same standards that any other citizen is held to. This has nothing to do with race, ethnicity or social standing, this has everything to do with being held accountable. How is it that you believe that it's alright for our tax dollars to go for health care for someone that puts absolutely nothing into the health system but they reap all the rewards as though they did. Do you not think that someone has to pay the bills, guess who it is, you, me, and the little old lady that is on a fixed income and paid into the system all her life. Why am I paying for foodstamps for someone that carries the flag of another country down the street telling me how they love their home country (Not America) and they fly that same flag in front of their house.

It seems incredibly hypocritical for you to preach that these people are human and they need help and then tell me from your perch that you have done your part in helping your fellow man. If you convictions ran as deep as you say then you would be living in the same neighborhoods as the aliens and you would share the pain and offer up the luxuries that you have, when you ran out of personal funds then you could ask the rest of us tax paying American citizens to pitch in. (At which time I will tell you No and hand you instructions to pass out on how to apply for citizenship)

As far as calling them Aliens it goes back way before you and I were born, SCI Fi was not around yet so stop thinking about ET.

In U.S. law, an alien is "any person not a citizen or national of the United States."[2] The U.S. Government's use of alien dates back to 1798, when it was used in the Alien and Sedition Acts.[3] U.S. law makes a clear distinction between aliens and immigrants by defining immigrants as a subset of aliens.[2] Although U.S. law provides no overarching explicit definition of the term "illegal alien," the term is used in many statutes[4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12] and elsewhere (e.g., court cases, executive orders). U.S. law also uses the term "unauthorized alien."[13][14][15][16][17] U.S. immigration laws do not refer to illegal immigrants, but in common parlance the term "illegal immigrant" is often used to refer to any illegal alien.[18]
In Latvian passports, alien is used for non-citizens (nepilsoņi): former citizens of USSR who have specific rights and privileges under Latvian law and international bilateral treaties while not possessing full Latvian citizenship.

 

[Dino]

We are not talking about you donating a couple of hours to the local food bank. If your claiming that you're military service was in any way to honor or serve the aliens in this country then I look forward to seeing your reply. You continue to post that these people are human and deserve better, they don't deserve anything. Natural citizens don't deserve anything either, they should work for it! Aliens have a legal path to obtain citizenship to enjoy the fruits that this country has to offer. They are cancer on society as long as they are not paying taxes and are not held to the same standards that any other citizen is held to. This has nothing to do with race, ethnicity or social standing, this has everything to do with being held accountable. How is it that you believe that it's alright for our tax dollars to go for health care for someone that puts absolutely nothing into the health system but they reap all the rewards as though they did. Do you not think that someone has to pay the bills, guess who it is, you, me, and the little old lady that is on a fixed income and paid into the system all her life. Why am I paying for foodstamps for someone that carries the flag of another country down the street telling me how they love their home country (Not America) and they fly that same flag in front of their house.

It seems incredibly hypocritical for you to preach that these people are human and they need help and then tell me from your perch that you have done your part in helping your fellow man. If you convictions ran as deep as you say then you would be living in the same neighborhoods as the aliens and you would share the pain and offer up the luxuries that you have, when you ran out of personal funds then you could ask the rest of us tax paying American citizens to pitch in. (At which time I will tell you No and hand you instructions to pass out on how to apply for citizenship)

As far as calling them Aliens it goes back way before you and I were born, SCI Fi was not around yet so stop thinking about ET.

In U.S. law, an alien is "any person not a citizen or national of the United States."[2] The U.S. Government's use of alien dates back to 1798, when it was used in the Alien and Sedition Acts.[3] U.S. law makes a clear distinction between aliens and immigrants by defining immigrants as a subset of aliens.[2] Although U.S. law provides no overarching explicit definition of the term "illegal alien," the term is used in many statutes[4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12] and elsewhere (e.g., court cases, executive orders). U.S. law also uses the term "unauthorized alien."[13][14][15][16][17] U.S. immigration laws do not refer to illegal immigrants, but in common parlance the term "illegal immigrant" is often used to refer to any illegal alien.[18]
In Latvian passports, alien is used for non-citizens (nepilsoņi): former citizens of USSR who have specific rights and privileges under Latvian law and international bilateral treaties while not possessing full Latvian citizenship.

I never said I have done my part but I do what I can for people in need. As for my service to my country it all goes toward living a life of service rather than one of mass consumption and selfishness. I do the best I can but as Layas Mom pointed out none of us are perfect. I provide for my family, I do not live an extravagant life of material consumption. I am happy to give what I can to support others. If I had the means I would give much more.

 

[skydivr]

We are all descended from immigrants. Even "Native Americans" are descended from people who crossed the land bridge across the Bering Strait thousands of years ago. And yes, the descendants of those people got screwed by Europeans and the descendants of Europeans.

As it stands today, the United States is a sovereign nation with legitimate laws and the duty to uphold and enforce those laws. The U.S., and every other nation, has the right to regulate the flow of people across its borders.

Due to geography and economic factors, the majority of people that enter the U.S. in violation of its laws come across the southern border. To the south of the U.S. lie areas that historically were colonized by Spain, thus the residents are referred to as "Hispanic" and the most common language spoken is Spanish.

On a side note, much of the western United States was once territory claimed by Spain. The residents of that area became "Americans" (in the U.S.A. sense) before the families of many of us who are of mostly European descent. There are still parts of the U.S. where most residents are naturally born U.S. citizens, and they primarily speak Spanish.

To express a desire to see the laws of the United States enforced is not a racist sentiment. If the economy Canada was as bad as Mexico's, many would feel the same about French and English speaking Canadian immigrants who entered the U.S. illegally.

The United States has several advantages. The colonists and Founding Fathers fought for independence from the colonizing nation. Through the efforts of Americans (in the U.S.A. sense) over the last 200+ years (and, unfortunately, including the mistreatment and abuse of several peoples), the U.S. has become what it is today - perhaps the best place in the world to live.

Perhaps those that enter the U.S. against its laws should direct their efforts toward making their native country a better place to live? Yes, that would frequently be a perilous path, but the U.S. is what it is today because of those who took up that yoke and faced the peril in their time so that their children could reap the rewards.

Any way you look at it, illegal immigration is an economic reality. I understand people wanting to live in the U.S. to make a better life for themselves and their families. I do not, however, think that illegal residents should have access to all the same government services as those who are natural or naturalized citizens, or services that are often not available to legal residents who are not citizens. People who enter illegally know they are breaking the law - they take that risk in order to obtain certain rewards.

I commend you for a well thought out and extremely well-written post without any associated vitrol

 

[outlawbusa]

cause I know from experience Dino can be relentless (no offense buddy)....
thumbsup:

Yeppas~!~

lease: Dino

 

[thrasherfox]

There is no need to go into gray areas on this issue.

It is really very simple.

Our laws state that coming into this country without legal permission and going through the correct channels and procedures is a felony. if you commit this felony you are a criminal in the United States.

It is not up to individuals to determine what laws we should abide by and which laws we do not have to abide by. we have to abide by all the laws.

It really doesn’t get any simpler than that. All the drama everyone is spouting about the poor people entering this country just to make a better life for themselves is irrelevant. The fact is it is illegal. Anyone coming into the United States illegally should be prosecuted and sent packing.

What I do not understand Dino is how you can work for the federal government and so willingly ignore federal law?

What other federal laws do you choose to ignore because they do not suit you? I hope you do not have a security clearance because it could be in jeopardy

 

[captain]

So let me add one little blurb here...

There isn't anything wrong with opinions, we all have them and we all should hold true to our convictions. I don't think any less of Dino this morning than I did yesterday. Our discussion going back and forth can be healthy, you never know he may sway my opinion about the situation. Conversations about tough subjects can get out of hand. I think that as long as we converse and not belittle others to prove our point then discussing them is Okay.

Dino, I still consider you a friend and your points are well taken but it doesnt sway our friendship in any way.....

Make no mistake folks we all won't agree all the time it is perfectly fine to disagree with the next guy but dont make personal attacks doing it....

I love this country....

and Dino.........

thank you for serving this country and doing what you have done. I had no intention of minnimizing your service for our freedom!

That goes for all the military service folks out there... nothing can trump the thankfullness I have for your protection for my family.

cap

 

[Projekt]

No, you still have the honor of having the most rediculous post in the thread.

You have the status of having the worst spelling in the thread.

 

[Projekt]

I'm not sure how this is linked back to his perspective about illegal aliens. He is making a point about the argument set forth that its alright to commit a felony as long as you are doing it to better your way of life. Try to keep up here.

Try to keep up with this:

It takes a particularly negative view of a group of people, call it a bias, to correlate the act of killing a person with the plight of the undocumented immigrant.

Bias: an unfair preference for or dislike of something

Correlate: transitive and intransitive verb to have a mutual or complementary relationship, or show that two or more things such as a cause and an effect have a mutual or complementary relationship

 

[Projekt]

What I do not understand Dino is how you can work for the federal government and so willingly ignore federal law?

What other federal laws do you choose to ignore because they do not suit you? I hope you do not have a security clearance because it could be in jeopardy

Threatening the man's security clearance because he has an independent opinion seems extreme to me. One can be patriotic and still disagree with some public policy.

 

[captain]

Threatening the man's security clearance because he has an independent opinion seems extreme to me. One can be patriotic and still disagree with some public policy.

Don't put words in his mouth, he didn' say that he was going to call the NSA.... He simply stated that with those opinions his security clearance could be in jeopardy, poorly worded maybe but no ill intentions were intended.

 

[Projekt]

I will not chime in my opinion on the subject but would like to suggest maybe it gets killed off asap cause I know from experience Dino can be relentless (no offense buddy).... Maybe we all should agree to disagree.... and get back the the busa talk

FYI, to be Christian is to be flawed...we do not claim to be perfect we just strive to be as Christ-like as possible. We are all a work in progress....

Come on.. Everybody knows that you're "Down with the Brown"!

 

[thrasherfox]

Threatening the man's security clearance because he has an independent opinion seems extreme to me. One can be patriotic and still disagree with some public policy.

I am not in a position to jeaporidize his security clearance so I do not have any ability to threaten his or anyone elses security clearance. just giving food for thought.