Michigan Armed Protesters

rubbersidedown said:
If only we were driven by knowledge as our number one resource in solving our/the world's problem's eh Bro. :thumbsup:
Easy fix. But that's not our chosen way...we are caught up in discrimination,anger,hate and bizarre ideology.
Don't you think emotion would be better left at home and not brought to the problem solving table?
Intellectual,real world science type thought processes versus emotional ones. View attachment 1618156
Rube.
Click to expand...
I don't know that we can remove all those things from what we consider knowledge. Think about what we call a container of asweetened, carbonated soft drink. How many terms are used in English alone to describe something so inconsequential? Which one is right? Which is currently acceptable? Which will reveal things your upbringing, or where you live?
It's complicated brotha Rubb, and I don't have the answers. I do however know that having open, honest and respectful conversations about things is helpful. Even if it's just pop cans....
 
Mr Brown said:
I don't know that we can remove all those things from what we consider knowledge. Think about what we call a container of asweetened, carbonated soft drink. How many terms are used in English alone to describe something so inconsequential? Which one is right? Which is currently acceptable? Which will reveal things your upbringing, or where you live?
It's complicated brotha Rubb, and I don't have the answers. I do however know that having open, honest and respectful conversations about things is helpful. Even if it's just pop cans....
Click to expand...
I hear you and understand fully big J.
It CAN be about how things are interpreted.
Oh,could you throw me a pop? No I don't want you toss your Dad off the balcony.
1618159


Like that right? It CAN be confusing.
Rube.
 
Personally I dont think the differences are the issue its peoples insistance that everyone fit into their expectations. I worry that what we are capable of is far in advance of most can manage. Bottom line is people are just not very smart in general so they spend a lot of their lives in animal mode. That with access to weapons that can kill on an industrial scale. Oops in meant hunt on an industrial scale (wink, wink).
 
Mr Brown said:
Experiencing racism and studying it are two different things. I've been on a plane, doesn't make me a pilot...
You appear to have either missed the point, or you're unwilling to accept it's validity. Either way, racism isn't a result of an individual person's action or inaction. This way of understanding it allows questions like "why is it the blacks take longer to assimilate" seem reasonable, when in fact the answers are clear. Obviously the circumstances of immigration effect outcomes, and none of the other groups you mentioned arrived here under those conditions, nor were the economic benefits of their labor controlled by them. Or their descendants. In fact, children were born into the same slavery as the mother. The law mandated this, for generations. I know you're a businessman, so I'll ask you this: If you could have just one person work for you for one year, doing whatever you told them to do, rent them out to others when you didn't need them, no vacation or time off, and all you had to do was provide them enough food, clothing, and shelter to remain productive, not thrive or enjoy life, just be able to work, how much capital would that generate for you? Now multiply that by hundreds of thousands of people over 200 years. That's the economic impact of slavery.
Slavery as an institution, and the social, economic, and legal fallout from it is largely the driving factor behind the inequality facing black people in the US.
Click to expand...
Except we abolished slavery what 200 years ago now? So how long can we hang our hats on that argument? Slavery was abolished. Then we used Chinese labor, Irish labor, Latino etc. All came after slavery. Yet they don't seem to be holding their race cards for their lot in life. Yes the slave trade was a worldwide business. Yes no doubt about it, they were treated like animals. Have we since given "blacks" more attempts at reparations than all the other labor forces that came after them?

As a businessman we invest in our workforce. I'll give you a current problem we are solving. Our plant in La pays no less than $12/hr for floor labor. No less and yes more. We have a waiting list of people wanting jobs at $12/ hr minimum.

We were designated an essential business on March 23rd. Our work never stopped. We have no Covid issues perse. That plant has a 70% black labor force. So we obviously have no problems offering work to minorities. And no shortage of people wanting our minimum wage. I was last there on March 13. On March 17th, 70% of our workforce called in sick. Not because they were sick, but because they heard if they lost their jobs they'd get bailout money. Before we even heard about it. They never imagined we were an essential company. It had not been determined at that point because we had no need to ask. We had never even heard about the Covid bailouts being discussed.

They hoped for government assistance. They assumed they were going to be laid off. They were all told by our plant manager that they had X days of paid sick pay. When that ran out, it would end paid sick for their year. The ones that stayed out, have since been fired for not showing up to work. They get no bailout. They get no unemployment. And they have all been replaced. It has nothing to do with the color of their skin. But I'm sure it will be before it's over with. They did this to themselves. Not whitey. Not racist tactics. Not discrimination. Their sense of entitlement. It is a culture. And it's not a race based culture. I have a segment of my family that have the same culture. And THAT is interchanged with the race card in the black community because of people that teach it to them. My worthless cousins that use the same system, were taught it by their equally worthless mother. 6 kids from 4 father's. All of which are long gone (sound familar?). They have no skin color that makes it accepted differently. They can't yell at anyone this wouldn't be happening to them because they are white. But I assure you they would take up arms to keep them coming in.

So my friend Mr Brown and Mr Fallen. I respect that you are both educated and successful. In areas I am not. I will try my best to find value in our different backgrounds and experiences to try enlighten both sides. I will also remind Arch that it was his father that taught him that all white men steal from the blacks. As educated as he is, his fathers teachings matter a LOT to what he feels about race. In his way, through no fault of mine, he believes in the bias he does based on my skin color. Much like there are ignorant Trump supporters that disgust me, I assure you I was disgusted at what voted on the other side before that. Racism is perpetuated by politics.
 
ottafish said:
Right, call me ignorant. Call me simple. Call me what ever you like... I don't give a rats arse.
But...

Nowhere in a civilised society, does a person need to show up to a peaceful protest armed to the teeth, looking like a reject from a movie set. Wtf are you trying to prove? That ya got a penis and you're a real mans man.. go home

(the idea a person can openly carry, carry concealed, and walk the streets armed just dumbfounded me. Yes the law states you can, but why do you need to? To what ends? And don't give me the "in case something happens" story. Are you really prepared to point it at a human, 100% certain you know better and end that persons life and live with the consequences, the nightmares)

So the government and the medical experts say, "stay home, distance apart, stay safe and lets get through this so we can return to normal" but no, these clowns protesting do nothing, and show nothing but ignorance and blatant disregard for other people's safety and wellbeing. Are they that blind they cannot see what's happening outside their own little piece of the world. Stop being so damn selfish and consider the fact some people may know more about this that you do.. that's why we don't let car salesman do brain surgery, they know more about it so we listen and trust them.

People comment, oh it's the flu or similar, and it kills 1000's. it may very well do, but when was the last time you saw refrigerated trucks filled with deceased people because we have no space left to store them. Mass graves in non war zones being filled up and bulldozed in because of the number of dead in such a short time.

Yes it's tough going at the moment. Yes it's not what we're used to. But man up, take stock of yourself and those around you. Consider what's best for the greater good and not be so ignorantly selfish.

Out.....
Click to expand...
Hi. I do, I have and I will if I have too. Yes I live with it every day too. It is because many people in this civilized world are NOT CIVILIZED.
 
Abolishing slavery did not do away with the effects of the institution. The emancipation of slaves wasn't a magic wand which made everything as if it never happened. Separate but (inherently un) equal was the law of the land until about 60 years ago. All the arguments you're making are refuted, in some cases have been for years. If you're truly interested in learning more I can point you in the direction of plenty of books and articles which will address each of them.
I know you're intelligent and capable of understanding the arguments that I'm making, and since you aren't acknowledging parts of them in order to refute them, I'm going to conclude that's because you can't logically argue against them. You still have yet to address the fact that power tilts in favor of white men. Always. Because that's who controls the mechanism making it tilt...
You're making a variation of the culture of poverty argument, which is itself a variation of blaming the victim. That ideological position fails to take in to account variances access to opportunity.
You're still using individual examples to try and explain macro level problems. That simply isn't how analysis works. We need to look at likelihood of a given outcome, not the specific outcomes themselves.
I respect your right to your opinion on this topic, you are free to believe anything you want, even in the face of piles of evidence against it.
 
08BusaKY said:
If the dems get control they want to add members to the Supreme Court until the get more liberals. That is ridiculous. Since it is this way I for one am glad the republicans are appointing judges since I lean more right than you.
Click to expand...
You literally made my point for me.
 
Speaking of armed change, does Vietnam ring a bell ? A rag tag group who were determined never beat a super power in the field, but beat our aholes at home. I’m not saying they were right or wrong (the aholes at home), but it certainly worked for the VC. Violence brings the most and fastest changes.
 
08BusaKY said:
If they were trying to intimidate voters it's worse. I don't think guns should be allowed at voting places. Here in KY guns are not allowed in federal buildings or voting places so if the MI thing would have happened here and they went in a federal building they would have been arrested.
Click to expand...
That's an assumption not a fact.
 
TallTom said:
Except we abolished slavery what 200 years ago now? So how long can we hang our hats on that argument? Slavery was abolished. Then we used Chinese labor, Irish labor, Latino etc. All came after slavery. Yet they don't seem to be holding their race cards for their lot in life. Yes the slave trade was a worldwide business. Yes no doubt about it, they were treated like animals. Have we since given "blacks" more attempts at reparations than all the other labor forces that came after them?

As a businessman we invest in our workforce. I'll give you a current problem we are solving. Our plant in La pays no less than $12/hr for floor labor. No less and yes more. We have a waiting list of people wanting jobs at $12/ hr minimum.

We were designated an essential business on March 23rd. Our work never stopped. We have no Covid issues perse. That plant has a 70% black labor force. So we obviously have no problems offering work to minorities. And no shortage of people wanting our minimum wage. I was last there on March 13. On March 17th, 70% of our workforce called in sick. Not because they were sick, but because they heard if they lost their jobs they'd get bailout money. Before we even heard about it. They never imagined we were an essential company. It had not been determined at that point because we had no need to ask. We had never even heard about the Covid bailouts being discussed.

They hoped for government assistance. They assumed they were going to be laid off. They were all told by our plant manager that they had X days of paid sick pay. When that ran out, it would end paid sick for their year. The ones that stayed out, have since been fired for not showing up to work. They get no bailout. They get no unemployment. And they have all been replaced. It has nothing to do with the color of their skin. But I'm sure it will be before it's over with. They did this to themselves. Not whitey. Not racist tactics. Not discrimination. Their sense of entitlement. It is a culture. And it's not a race based culture. I have a segment of my family that have the same culture. And THAT is interchanged with the race card in the black community because of people that teach it to them. My worthless cousins that use the same system, were taught it by their equally worthless mother. 6 kids from 4 father's. All of which are long gone (sound familar?). They have no skin color that makes it accepted differently. They can't yell at anyone this wouldn't be happening to them because they are white. But I assure you they would take up arms to keep them coming in.

So my friend Mr Brown and Mr Fallen. I respect that you are both educated and successful. In areas I am not. I will try my best to find value in our different backgrounds and experiences to try enlighten both sides. I will also remind Arch that it was his father that taught him that all white men steal from the blacks. As educated as he is, his fathers teachings matter a LOT to what he feels about race. In his way, through no fault of mine, he believes in the bias he does based on my skin color. Much like there are ignorant Trump supporters that disgust me, I assure you I was disgusted at what voted on the other side before that. Racism is perpetuated by politics.
Click to expand...
Just so you get it my father has 2 master degrees and quit working on his doctorate in the middle of his thesis when he found out it means nothing in the job market for a minority as we couldn't get those jobs. My dad was keeping it real brother.
 
busabobh said:
Speaking of armed change, does Vietnam ring a bell ? A rag tag group who were determined never beat a super power in the field, but beat our aholes at home. I’m not saying they were right or wrong (the aholes at home), but it certainly worked for the VC. Violence brings the most and fastest changes.
Click to expand...
You know a dog fights hardest when defending their turf. We should never risk a single soldier's life unless we are willing to vaporize the place.
 
fallenarch said:
Just so you get it my father has 2 master degrees and quit working on his doctorate in the middle of his thesis when he found out it means nothing in the job market for a minority as we couldn't get those jobs. My dad was keeping it real brother.
Click to expand...
I never questioned your father's education. Only what he taught his son about racism. None of us are born with a bias against a group of people. It's learned. In various ways. Just keeping it real brother. And yet his son did find a good job from his good education. So fortunately you didn't listen to him about everything.
 
TallTom said:
I never questioned your father's education. Only what he taught his son about racism. None of us are born with a bias against a group of people. It's learned. In various ways. Just keeping it real brother. And yet his son did find a good job from his good education. So fortunately you didn't listen to him about everything.
Click to expand...
What my Father taught me helped me weed my way through a lot of people who think like you. The experiences in my life have confirmed to me how many people think. My Father made sure it wasn't a surprise.
 
busabobh said:
Speaking of armed change, does Vietnam ring a bell ? A rag tag group who were determined never beat a super power in the field, but beat our aholes at home. I’m not saying they were right or wrong (the aholes at home), but it certainly worked for the VC. Violence brings the most and fastest changes.
Click to expand...

I did a lot of study regarding the Viet Nam war as a point of interest...a couple guys on this forum were there and fought in it...I can't remember if you were or not so my apologies in advance.

The Viet Nam war was a very complex operation which was never able to be won due to a political stance by the US government.

The NVA supplied the VC with the Russian and Chinese help.

Sanctuary counties were set up and the US forces weren't able to pursue the opposition into these areas due to political influence..it was an unpopular war fought at a time where the people didn't support the action...a very sad thing for the returning troops who were treated like garbage by their own civilian population...

Violence can bring about quick change but not always in a positive or productive manner...the old saying "earn their hearts and minds" comes to the forefront here. Piss off the local populace and you might as well pack up and go home because they know the terrain and will side with the enemy just to seek revenge on the occupying force...

This happens quite often and has happened in Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq more than once.

….but I digress back to the original thread topic.
 
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