Manning up and holding it down...

[fallenarch]

The next step is way above most people IMHO. If you have women who have kids and women who work, one could question who should be breeding from a genitic pool standpoint. Then things get really complicated. Poor women would be much more likely to have children as limits on education would make them less likely to chose a career path. While economic accomplishment has much more to do with birth class than personal intelligence (sorry, proven fact), more and more of the population would be coming from the lower economic classes.

If you are getting uncomfortable reading this imagine how our current societies would deal with this? We have just not developed as a species to a point where we can take control of natural selection. Further, the future of mankind may not depend on intelligence at all. It might depend on a resistance to a disease, or a certain physical trait like super hearing or something. So, there is no 100% sure way to manipulate the gene pool. A race of perfect humans with a 200 point IQ might think themselves into extinction.

I think the best way to go is diversity. Nature's grand plan is based on statistical probability - do it randomly over and over and the strongest option will eventually prevail. All Women must have options, so all women will have children; that way we don't get a genetic tree without branches. But having children is not all women can do, and the savior of the world may turn out to be a woman scientist or doctor. Cultural and societal norms that are based on oppression can produce temporary order but they are not sustainable. Sooner or later the oppressed will rise up against the oppressors. On the other hand, there is no proof that man can handle this responsibility, so we're better off to leave it to nature.

This actually gets to the source of my liberalism. We need the opportunity for everyone to flurish so the warriors don't kill everyone, the needy don't over-burden the privilidged, the greedy don't force irrational uses of resources, the powerful don't become dictators, and the smart people don't blow the whole planet up and go live on the moon.

I'm just not sure anyone can lead us through this mess. Man is the only living thing on the planet that is it's own predator. Maybe it wa splanned that way and we are supposed to kill ourselves off.

[Projekt]

Very interesting perspective and a riveting read. I will say then, to sum it up. "Live and let live.. Let God sort them out if they get out of control"..

There is an equilibrium in regards to most thing in the natural kingdom on earth. The predator-prey life-cycle and its effects on the environment. We are part of that greater life-cycle very much like you alluded to in your words. However, our focus is the impact of disunity on families.

Final question: Do you believe the trend of society is generally degrading, holding steady or improving due to the lack of "until death do us part?"

[fallenarch]

The direct answer to your question is yes, it will degrade. But traditional marriage and family won't save us. Society is failing because we have grown beyond the simplistic roles for the partners marriage presumes and we have not yet replaced it with a new definition of family. The degrading of society has always preceded an era of growth and enlightenment. Society will degrade until we can no longer tolerate it and we will evolve a new means of raising children and establishing social order. We are trying to be the only species that has abandoned our instinctive programming and replaced it with personal choice. As fascinating as this is I think we will find that nature knew best. However I also believe it is our destiny to rise above all other animals and follow our intellect, even if it leads to our ruin.

[Projekt]

Good insight. I know what is coming and am prepared for it. Do you know what that enlightenment is? How it already happened from 1300-500 years ago and who brought it to us, by what means and for what reasons?

[ZRXMAX]

Several interesting points there. My worldview includes the old cliche "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely". You only have to look at what is really going on... if.... you can peel back the layers of misinformation and gain some perspective. One of my favorite speeches was JFK's Secret Society speech back in his time. The ideology mentioned in this speech probably has more to do with him being assassinated than anything else that was going on at the time.

John F Kennedy Secret Society Speech version 2 - YouTube[/url]

[Projekt]

The Secret Societies that he talks about aren't so secret save for maybe the Feathermen that were covered in the movie: Killer Elite... His demise was due to his betrayal of the men who groomed him and allowed him to take office.

[ZRXMAX]

The Secret Societies that he talks about aren't so secret save for maybe the Feathermen that were covered in the movie: Killer Elite... His demise was due to his betrayal of the men who groomed him and allowed him to take office.

In other words... elections really arn't elections in this country... correct?

[Projekt]

In other words... elections really arn't elections in this country... correct?

It is debatable and that argument tangent depends on how high you are perched on the "pyramid". The fact of the matter is, no candidate is allowed to rise up unless there are certain conditions met in the form of promises or quid pro quo. If you agree to follow the agenda with a small allowance for deviation you may pass and be scrutinized by the populous and "we" will ensure you are viewed favorably by squashing any negative news even if it means imprisoning a disposable legionnaire (writing this comment) overseas on election day..

Yes... elections really aren't elections as much as they are comparable to shooting loaded dice through a gauntlet of scrutiny and for some reason, it is meant to divide the country on every bloody Super Tuesday. It sure was bloody for me. United stand but divided we fall... I united a prison days after election day which happened to be the day I was lured to a police station and beaten by 12 dirtbags in uniform with cuffs and batons..

[fallenarch]

Good insight. I know what is coming and am prepared for it. Do you know what that enlightenment is? How it already happened from 1300-500 years ago and who brought it to us, by what means and for what reasons?

I think our founders believed that religion removed the burden of thought from man and so limited mans growth potential. They were the first "implementers" of the enlightenment that swept parts of Europe during the 1300's when they founded this country based on individual freedom and freedom of religion. I believe what's coming is chaos, but it remains to be seen if its a structural chaos or a real break down of cultural order. There is an intellectual way to alter Christianity so it places the power back on man and I have spent many years studying & writing on this issue. But I don't preach and I won't go down that road in this forum. However since you know what is coming, why don't you enlighten us?

[fallenarch]

It is debatable and that argument tangent depends on how high you are perched on the "pyramid". The fact of the matter is, no candidate is allowed to rise up unless there are certain conditions met in the form of promises or quid pro quo. If you agree to follow the agenda with a small allowance for deviation you may pass and be scrutinized by the populous and "we" will ensure you are viewed favorably by squashing any negative news even if it means imprisoning a disposable legionnaire (writing this comment) overseas on election day..

Yes... elections really aren't elections as much as they are comparable to shooting loaded dice through a gauntlet of scrutiny and for some reason, it is meant to divide the country on every bloody Super Tuesday. It sure was bloody for me. United stand but divided we fall... I united a prison days after election day which happened to be the day I was lured to a police station and beaten by 12 dirtbags in uniform with cuffs and batons..

You don't need to rig an election. Less than 10% of Americans even vote, much less pay attention. The people trying to make America into a big "company town" were planning to just steal it right out from under a population that believed themselves to be powerless. We're not powerless, just apathetic.

[m_ridgeway]

You don't need to rig an election. Less than 10% of Americans even vote.

Where did you get that figure?

[fallenarch]

Where did you get that figure?

I heard it somewhere, that people who vote in all elections (not just for president) represent less than 10%. Whatever the current number is it's not the 80-90% even some backwards countries get. Obama has brought the population back into the process and already we see some of the people that thought they could steal the country un-opposed starting to squirm (I.e. Carl Rove on election night on FOX News). What we need now is a Republican that can do the same and actually make it through their primary where they face those 10% (or whatever the number is) voters.

[raydog]

Wow, fun read you guys!

[Poppy]

58.9% per wikipedia.....United States presidential election, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[fallenarch]

58.9% per wikipedia.....United States presidential election, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we can do like 2012 we will be in good shape. I was referring to the typical turnout, and for local elections too.

[Poppy]

If we can do like 2012 we will be in good shape. I was referring to the typical turnout, and for local elections too.

I always participate in elections, local and national, and I appreciate a good turnout, regardless of the outcome. Voting is one of the greatest acts citizens can participate in. A great way to make your voice heard. Just imagine if the other 41.1% had participated.....???

[Projekt]

I think our founders believed that religion removed the burden of thought from man and so limited mans growth potential. They were the first "implementers" of the enlightenment that swept parts of Europe during the 1300's when they founded this country based on individual freedom and freedom of religion. I believe what's coming is chaos, but it remains to be seen if its a structural chaos or a real break down of cultural order. There is an intellectual way to alter Christianity so it places the power back on man and I have spent many years studying & writing on this issue. But I don't preach and I won't go down that road in this forum. However since you know what is coming, why don't you enlighten us?

Happy to oblige but it would take a giant essay to cover it. I would rather talk with those interested in knowing in the first person. Also, this knowledge was gained through a lifetime of research that led me to be able to say confidently say I am a global trend analyst with global experience and a huge appetite for information in all spheres but of particular impact in global and regional politics. Just a hint in the form an answer: A religious doctrine originating from the area near Makkah in Saudi Arabia whose prophet existed in human form in the 600's and is said to have spoken in the regional language of fos-ha.

This one will be further discussed via PM and there will be a lot more questions from me before there is any elaboration.

[fallenarch]

Humm. Well sort of a cop out but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you have good reason to not spill your thoughts here. I will say that I don't think converting the world to the Muslim faith is the answer or the probable direction. On the other hand globalism is going to figure big in the future both because it has huge momentum and because we cannot continue to use such a disproportionate amount of the world's resources. In truth it is the right thing to do for the planet, if not for the USA in particular.

[Projekt]

The answer is not forcing a conversion. It is the conversion being so appealing that the faith is the fastest growing religion on earth.. Only a short matter of time before the truth about the tenets like obligatory peaceful coexistence and human stewardship becomes the predominant association with that religion and not a symbol of terrorism and radicalism as is unfortunately propagated to date.

[Projekt]

If you are getting uncomfortable reading this imagine how our current societies would deal with this? We have just not developed as a species to a point where we can take control of natural selection. Further, the future of mankind may not depend on intelligence at all. It might depend on a resistance to a disease, or a certain physical trait like super hearing or something. So, there is no 100% sure way to manipulate the gene pool. A race of perfect humans with a 200 point IQ might think themselves into extinction.

Or... the next Genghis Kahn may emerge and slaughter millions of men and impregnate their women... Food for thought.