Manning up and holding it down...

[Projekt]

It is an all too common site for there to be folks that respond to the question of: What you up to this weekend, wanna grab a brew? with, can't make it, got my kids for this weekend gonna do the family thing.

Step back and think about that and ask yourself:

Why does this seem so familiar to the point of normalcy?

Have humans lost the ability to maintain a family united?

What is the root cause that I can see and contribute to this conversation?

What can I do to prevent this in my family?

What can I do to recover the unity in my family if I have lost it?

How does this honestly and emotionally affect me to the core?

Why can't a man hold down a family and protect, support, love and provide for them in one home for a lifetime?

 

[ZRXMAX]

It is an all too common site for there to be folks that respond to the question of: What you up to this weekend, wanna grab a brew? with, can't make it, got my kids for this weekend gonna do the family thing.

Step back and think about that and ask yourself:

Why does this seem so familiar to the point of normalcy?

Have humans lost the ability to maintain a family united?

What is the root cause that I can see and contribute to this conversation?

What can I do to prevent this in my family?

What can I do to recover the unity in my family if I have lost it?

How does this honestly and emotionally affect me to the core?

Why can't a man hold down a family and protect, support, love and provide for them in one home for a lifetime?

Its doubtful I can answer all your questions though some are one in the same. It all comes down to priorities. What do you value the most? Are you in a career that keeps your financial strenth intact ?

The culture is changing and out of wedlock children are more common than ever. I have to think that women in the workforce has had the biggest impact on the American family for many reasons as compared to 40 years ago.

Not having the women at home raising the children has made Grand parents a vital aspect of child rearing these days. Yes, it is possible for a man to perform all the points you made with your last question, however, the desire to

fulfill ones desires doesn't leave as much time for the family generally speaking. Time is finite, balance is the key, resources must be availible for the family to function at the highest levels. Many families are struggling these days as

they witness the changes in America that has left many that could not adapt quickly enough in dire straits. Add to that the mortgage debacle and you are seeing many broken families that would have otherwise stayed together.
Their is a lot more to say, I just spoke to a few issues as a way to move the conversation forward.

 

[ZRXMAX]

It is an all too common site for there to be folks that respond to the question of: What you up to this weekend, wanna grab a brew? with, can't make it, got my kids for this weekend gonna do the family thing.

Step back and think about that and ask yourself:

Why does this seem so familiar to the point of normalcy?

Have humans lost the ability to maintain a family united?

What is the root cause that I can see and contribute to this conversation?

What can I do to prevent this in my family?

What can I do to recover the unity in my family if I have lost it?

How does this honestly and emotionally affect me to the core?

Why can't a man hold down a family and protect, support, love and provide for them in one home for a lifetime?

^^^^^

 

[Projekt]

All your points are absolutely spot on and it is up to the individual to provide a story to substantiate his experience and stance.

 

[fallenarch]

Basically the traditional definition of marriage was based on the woman having few options but to subjugate her desire to express herself to the well being of the family. Women did that because they had few options. The man was "The Man" because he was the bread winner, and that is absolute power in our society. We see the family break down in lower economic marriages first simply because the man could not reliably provide for the family, which frees the woman to seek other options to get the family provided for. As women have entered the work force and are quickly approaching equality (although not quickly enough for most women I'm sure), women are now free to leave a marriage, or raise a family on their own. So, women no longer look to their spouses to only provide, they want a more supportive relationship founded on a more equal footing. Most men have to struggle with this change because our vision of "love" is usually based on a decent looking woman who is supportive, basically I lead you follow. What this all means is that we are going to have to redefine marriage legally, emotionally, and in terms of the family structure (not to mention gender, although that's a totally different conversation).

 

[Fastfrog007]

Basically the traditional definition of marriage was based on the woman having few options but to subjugate her desire to express herself to the well being of the family. Women did that because they had few options. The man was "The Man" because he was the bread winner, and that is absolute power in our society. We see the family break down in lower economic marriages first simply because the man could not reliably provide for the family, which frees the woman to seek other options to get the family provided for. As women have entered the work force and are quickly approaching equality (although not quickly enough for most women I'm sure), women are now free to leave a marriage, or raise a family on their own. So, women no longer look to their spouses to only provide, they want a more supportive relationship founded on a more equal footing. Most men have to struggle with this change because our vision of "love" is usually based on a decent looking woman who is supportive, basically I lead you follow. What this all means is that we are going to have to redefine marriage legally, emotionally, and in terms of the family structure (not to mention gender, although that's a totally different conversation).

So basically women leaving the kitchen is the problem.

 

[fallenarch]

Obviously you aren't married. More men i know cook than women!

 

[m_ridgeway]

Basically the traditional definition of marriage was based on the woman having few options but to subjugate her desire to express herself to the well being of the family. Women did that because they had few options. The man was "The Man" because he was the bread winner, and that is absolute power in our society. We see the family break down in lower economic marriages first simply because the man could not reliably provide for the family, which frees the woman to seek other options to get the family provided for. As women have entered the work force and are quickly approaching equality (although not quickly enough for most women I'm sure), women are now free to leave a marriage, or raise a family on their own. So, women no longer look to their spouses to only provide, they want a more supportive relationship founded on a more equal footing. Most men have to struggle with this change because our vision of "love" is usually based on a decent looking woman who is supportive, basically I lead you follow. What this all means is that we are going to have to redefine marriage legally, emotionally, and in terms of the family structure (not to mention gender, although that's a totally different conversation).

I agree with some of your points, but I think alot of marriages come out of the instant gratification/irrational decision making in our society today. It seems things need to happen immediately. I.e. our home loan and personal debt. There was a time you'd have to been insane to take the loans people take now just to get that higher status in life.

I also think in lower income more children are born early and leads to people getting married "just for the kids"

And ultimately yes those with more financial issues see alot of stress that breaks down relationships. Alot of successful people I know are not fighting about money see the strains of success. I personally believe we are getting mentally weaker with all the conditions and medications we are taught we "need" to deal with life. Lifes just hard, we dont need medications and misdiagnosis we need a boot on the ass at times. Coping skills are almost a thing of the past it seems.

I also agree with you on the whole "marriage" premise. But like you said thats an entirely different thread.

 

[VaBusa]

So basically women leaving the kitchen is the problem.

Funny, I was thinking it's that there are so many simple men in society nowadays

BTW Rooster, you kinda suck...

 

[fallenarch]

I agree with some of your points, but I think alot of marriages come out of the instant gratification/irrational decision making in our society today. It seems things need to happen immediately. I.e. our home loan and personal debt. There was a time you'd have to been insane to take the loans people take now just to get that higher status in life.

I also think in lower income more children are born early and leads to people getting married "just for the kids"

And ultimately yes those with more financial issues see alot of stress that breaks down relationships. Alot of successful people I know are not fighting about money see the strains of success. I personally believe we are getting mentally weaker with all the conditions and medications we are taught we "need" to deal with life. Lifes just hard, we dont need medications and misdiagnosis we need a boot on the ass at times. Coping skills are almost a thing of the past it seems.

I also agree with you on the whole "marriage" premise. But like you said thats an entirely different thread.

You bring up some good points here too, I agree 100%

 

[fallenarch]

Funny, I was thinking it's that there are so many simple men in society nowadays

BTW Rooster, you kinda suck...

That can't be it. There were always a lot of simple men in society

 

[VaBusa]

That can't be it. There were always a lot of simple men in society

This is true...my bad

 

[kml]

No wife
no kids
no parents
no brothers or sisters
no grandparents
no aunts
no uncles
closest living relative, 4th cousin
one dog
beer in fridge...

"woof!"

"What's that Caesar? You say I should spend some quality family time with you by having another beer?"

"woof!"

"well alrighty then, that's what I'll do!"

"Woof!"

"You want some liver treats? You got it buddy!"

ahhh... Nice and simple family time, gotta love it!



cheers
ken

P.S. No mortgage or credit cards either.

 

[dadofthree]

Just look around, we have progressed

It just keeps getting better and there's no stopping it

 

[Projekt]

Basically the traditional definition of marriage was based on the woman having few options but to subjugate her desire to express herself to the well being of the family. Women did that because they had few options. The man was "The Man" because he was the bread winner, and that is absolute power in our society. We see the family break down in lower economic marriages first simply because the man could not reliably provide for the family, which frees the woman to seek other options to get the family provided for. As women have entered the work force and are quickly approaching equality (although not quickly enough for most women I'm sure), women are now free to leave a marriage, or raise a family on their own. So, women no longer look to their spouses to only provide, they want a more supportive relationship founded on a more equal footing. Most men have to struggle with this change because our vision of "love" is usually based on a decent looking woman who is supportive, basically I lead you follow. What this all means is that we are going to have to redefine marriage legally, emotionally, and in terms of the family structure (not to mention gender, although that's a totally different conversation).

This is spot on however, I hate to look at this in such a negative light. The world is built on a stable family and keeping that stability meant keeping the woman locked down at the house pregnant with a bunch of mouths to feed. Consider this, when the world was one in which humans only lived to the ripe old age of 36-40 and many many many women died in childbirth, a woman would have been happy to stay home in a well built, defended and stocked home with a man that would come home with a dead animal or with a bounty composed of X. These days, folks are not in a survival/subsistence lifestyle and live to the three figures regularly. The distractions of society allow for women to pick and choose the man that conforms to her particular set of personality characteristics and she finds love or find that no man can fully fulfill her requirements that may be based on a mental delusion and a poor socialization during upbringing in a home sans father. Sorry, there is no knight in shining armor bound to ride in a for a rescue at sunset..

 

[fallenarch]

It could be that we are following natures master plan. As we as a species live longer and more babies live to maturity, there is less of a need for procreation. Maybe women moving into non-childbearing roles is a natural result of the bounty humans have enjoyed here on this planet and the resulting over-population. I think we will eventually get to a point where it will be as natural for a woman to work and never want kids as it is for a woman to have several kids. Of course this begs the question what do we do with a family? Families are needed by people who are interdependent. Families are, along with marriage, a means of sharing resources that is based on a partner with means and a partner offering up support. It's going to be tough to adjust this centuries old cultural construct with something as effective at perpetuating the species. I don't have any answers here but I don't think many women are going to willingly go back to the fifties. We are going to have to redefine marriage to something because the chaos we are seeing now is very destructive.

 

[chrisjp]

Obviously you aren't married. More men i know cook than women!

so your in a support group? lol

 

[ZRXMAX]

Kids are optional. If you bring one into the world raise it like you care about it. Their are way to many kids not being raised by both parents these days. The culture is undergoing major changes and the media influences are having a strong affect on the values of our youth as they have for decades. It really is time for Americans to weed out the riff raff in DC and other corrupt places that poison our culture with fear based and handout based policies. As a nation we are getting pretty soft, especially around the middle as evidenced by all the fat people waddling around these days. A sluggish under powered body is a liablilty when it comes to having a productive and joyful life. Back to kids... I am glad I didn't bring any into this awful mess we find ourselves in today. The future generations are going to right the ship soon if they want to see America become what it was designed to be. The people running the world have one purpose in mind and that is having it all to themselves.
About 500,000,000 million is their objective to have a perfect world to live in. I ride because it is a great way to forget about it all.

Here is a glimpse of what goes on that we hear very little about.

America... overly entertained while woefully underinformed.

Welcome to the Most Powerful Place on Earth: Video - Bloomberg

 

[Projekt]

It could be that we are following natures master plan. As we as a species live longer and more babies live to maturity, there is less of a need for procreation. Maybe women moving into non-childbearing roles is a natural result of the bounty humans have enjoyed here on this planet and the resulting over-population. I think we will eventually get to a point where it will be as natural for a woman to work and never want kids as it is for a woman to have several kids. Of course this begs the question what do we do with a family? Families are needed by people who are interdependent. Families are, along with marriage, a means of sharing resources that is based on a partner with means and a partner offering up support. It's going to be tough to adjust this centuries old cultural construct with something as effective at perpetuating the species. I don't have any answers here but I don't think many women are going to willingly go back to the fifties. We are going to have to redefine marriage to something because the chaos we are seeing now is very destructive.

This is a very good conjecture. However, it begs the question, what will happen to the population if this trend continues?

 

[DevilDawg1]

Well lets just all face reality - The American Indians had the perfect way of life, ie... the men went hunting, fishing, and off to war, the women did everything else. And then the white man came along and screwed it all up forever.