Org un-scientific poll >>>>> Obama Care <<<<<

[raydog]

I am for "Public Health", i.e. CDC, public clinics for all that need them, and don't mind paying for it through my taxes. I don't want to be forced on public health when I already have my own health care covered.If you are poor or indigent I have no problem helping you in time of need, my issue is the government (Federal) making me be subject of that racket which increases the power of the repubs and democrats over the final detail of our existence, our ability to breathe. I think you would be hard pressed to find any American that would be okay with letting anyone die because of lack of medical care, good care or bad care can be argued, but Government care tends to be bad or not as good as private care.
Its a simple issue of freedom, its okay to be free to choose to abort a 6 month old baby but not okay to be free to choose your own medical care?

The Constitution and it's amendments guarantee our rights from birth so there is no such thing as to "abort a 6 month old baby", that would be murdering a person 6 months AFTER birth. Next, the Affordable Care act doesn't take away a citizen's choice of which private sector health insurance program to use so that statement is untrue...it mandates about 1% of the population to GET insurance, and YOUR Supreme court said that was OK. And as to saying the publicly funded CDC, publicly funded clinics and the VA health system are all OK.....you don't get more "socialist" than that, why should they exist? I see little continuity in your argument.

[Tufbusa]

The Constitution and it's amendments guarantee our rights from birth so there is no such thing as to "abort a 6 month old baby", that would be murdering a person 6 months AFTER birth. Next, the Affordable Care act doesn't take away a citizen's choice of which private sector health insurance program to use so that statement is untrue...it mandates about 1% of the population to GET insurance, and YOUR Supreme court said that was OK. And as to saying the publicly funded CDC, publicly funded clinics and the VA health system are all OK.....you don't get more "socialist" than that, why should they exist? I see little continuity in your argument.

Doyle, you left out a very important part of your argument. The same 1% of the population that doesn't have health insurance now is going to be the same 1% who won't pay for their health insurance once Obama Care is implemented, you and I will be paying for it. However, you being a public employee you don't have any worries as the tax payer will be paying for your health care whether Obama Care is implemented or not. When you don't have a dog in the hunt it skews one's views.

You are correct that Obama Care does not restrict your right to purchase your own insurance as long as it's available but it does require you to purchase an "Approved" plan so those of us who would choose a catastrophic plan will now be forced to buy the Obama approved plan at a substantial increase in cost of course.

As a side note, my friend whom is self employed just got his monthly statement from his health insurance company. The front page of the the statement was a letter which explained that due to the Affordable Care Act that has been approved by the supreme court that forces coverage of birth control and the pre-existing conditions at no additional costs to the customer rates would be adjusted. The new rates which were substantially increased of course was listed on the back. Unfortunately, for the rest of us who aren't employed by the tax payer best hang on to their wallets because our lovely leaders (Obama, Reid & Pelosy) are about to suck it as dry as they possibly can. Us "Payers" have one more shot at killing the beast and that will only happen if there are enough sane working folks left to vote in a new administration to the white house, hold on to congress and gain control of the senate. If the country fails to gain control of either branch of government, it's going to be a long rough ride for most Americans.

I agree that health care needs to be overhauled but this fiasco affectionately known as Obama Care is going to change the standard of living in this country that most are not going to be pleased with and may not recognize. Obama care is 2200 pages of which covers all sorts of things that has nothing to do with health care. 22 new taxes are hidden among those pages. This alone should make even the most loyal liberal take a long look before offering their support.

I love you Doyle but I wish I could take your blinders off. lease:

[Gpmo]

If the whole federal government is taken over by republicans I'm moving to Canada, talk about the country going to hell.

[fallenarch]

I am for "Public Health", i.e. CDC, public clinics for all that need them, and don't mind paying for it through my taxes. I don't want to be forced on public health when I already have my own health care covered.If you are poor or indigent I have no problem helping you in time of need, my issue is the government (Federal) making me be subject of that racket which increases the power of the repubs and democrats over the final detail of our existence, our ability to breathe. I think you would be hard pressed to find any American that would be okay with letting anyone die because of lack of medical care, good care or bad care can be argued, but Government care tends to be bad or not as good as private care.
Its a simple issue of freedom, its okay to be free to choose to abort a 6 month old baby but not okay to be free to choose your own medical care?

Should you be free to steal healthcare? That's right when you are laid out on a slab and a hospital saves your life they are going to do it whether or not you paid your share. Claiming this is about "freedom" is really pretty silly. How is a relatively samll tax making you less free than being cut off by a healthcare corporation right when you get diagnosed as having a serious, life threatening problem?

[moloko]

i think all health insurance companys need to just be wiped out and soley the government provide free healthcare to ever RIGHTFUL citizen. but even now we the tax payers are paying for all these illegal immigrants to have their babys here in america cause of course the doctors wont do it for free!(20gs a pop btw) and we are to kind hearted to just shut the door on them. america made the mistake along time ago by letting immigrants overrun our congress. this place is now total caos. the government nearly gets 50% of our check anyway, the least they can do is give us free healthcare. allls i got to say is if things dont start looking up im headed to thailand. the majority of the population speaks english and you can be filthy rich for a fraction of the price of here. Im no longer proud to be an american . congress is supposed to work for the people but gradually over time they have turned the tables

They need that money to buy more bombs!! pshhhhht, take care of our citizens hahahahahahaha bwahahahahahahahahahaha whoa hah hehe yeah, hahahahahahahahahaahah right that'll happen hahahahahaha whooooo that's a good one. Free health care. hahahahahahahahahaahahahahaha oh I can't stop, my side... it hurts. seriously, what were you thinking? It's way more important to have a larger military than the rest of the planet combined...

[skydivr]

If the whole federal government is taken over by republicans I'm moving to Canada, talk about the country going to hell.

Promise?

[Gpmo]

Promise?

Yes I promise that the country will goto hell if one political party ran the entire show. I promise.

[masterblaster]

One party does run the country, the DEMOCRAT / REPUBLICAN party, how is that working out? Not too good from where I sit.

Yes I promise that the country will goto hell if one political party ran the entire show. I promise.

[raydog]

Doyle, you left out a very important part of your argument. The same 1% of the population that doesn't have health insurance now is going to be the same 1% who won't pay for their health insurance once Obama Care is implemented, you and I will be paying for it. However, you being a public employee you don't have any worries as the tax payer will be paying for your health care whether Obama Care is implemented or not. When you don't have a dog in the hunt it skews one's views.

You are correct that Obama Care does not restrict your right to purchase your own insurance as long as it's available but it does require you to purchase an "Approved" plan so those of us who would choose a catastrophic plan will now be forced to buy the Obama approved plan at a substantial increase in cost of course.

As a side note, my friend whom is self employed just got his monthly statement from his health insurance company. The front page of the the statement was a letter which explained that due to the Affordable Care Act that has been approved by the supreme court that forces coverage of birth control and the pre-existing conditions at no additional costs to the customer rates would be adjusted. The new rates which were substantially increased of course was listed on the back. Unfortunately, for the rest of us who aren't employed by the tax payer best hang on to their wallets because our lovely leaders (Obama, Reid & Pelosy) are about to suck it as dry as they possibly can. Us "Payers" have one more shot at killing the beast and that will only happen if there are enough sane working folks left to vote in a new administration to the white house, hold on to congress and gain control of the senate. If the country fails to gain control of either branch of government, it's going to be a long rough ride for most Americans.

I agree that health care needs to be overhauled but this fiasco affectionately known as Obama Care is going to change the standard of living in this country that most are not going to be pleased with and may not recognize. Obama care is 2200 pages of which covers all sorts of things that has nothing to do with health care. 22 new taxes are hidden among those pages. This alone should make even the most loyal liberal take a long look before offering their support.

I love you Doyle but I wish I could take your blinders off. lease:

Yes, I know, whenever someone disagrees with us they must be wearing blinders. Guess what Steven, some of us actually think that taxation can make for a better Country and future. I hope Grover Norquist falls into a pothole the size of a Harley.
When I see fresh paint and no rusty rivets on bridge girders, when I don't have to take unpaid furlough days as a teacher, when fire stations are fully staffed across this country, then maybe I'll have a different outlook. Until then, while our Country crumbles beneath us I will continue to think the real "freeloaders" are the anti-tax, strip the government fanatics, not the powerless, uneducated poor.

[skydivr]

I offer for rebuttal...

[fallenarch]

Why was everyting paraphrased and not just the actual text?

[Gpmo]

Why was everyting paraphrased and not just the actual text?

Because that's not how propaganda works. .

[skydivr]

Because that's not how propaganda works. .

Because you read all 2000+ pages....

[Gpmo]

Because you read all 2000+ pages....

Get off it man. That video was put together with propaganda 101. Some or all of his points maybe true. But the way it is presented is in such a fashion as to inspire emotional response and not encouraging full understanding of each point by limiting the information given.

I will be fact checking his points because it is worth my time. But open your "blinders" and realize everyone is limiting what they are saying so "you" don't have all the information.

[raydog]

I am so pleased that some of my bro's on the org look deep into issues, have humanitarian values, understand how money has become the "blue blood" of our heretofore great Nation and understand the intoxicating effects of both sound bites AND out of context communication. Peel away the onionskin and Limbaugh, Hannity, fox and friends, Cantor, Boehner and Krautheimer have offered/done nothing to help bring us together over the past few years. It seems "attacking the individual" has trumped honest disagreement and discourse. And on that style, I believe the right has the market cornered.....but that's just how I see it, and for all my adult life, I'm pretty much known for getting along with all types of folks.

[Tufbusa]

Yes, I know, whenever someone disagrees with us they must be wearing blinders. Guess what Steven, some of us actually think that taxation can make for a better Country and future. I hope Grover Norquist falls into a pothole the size of a Harley.
When I see fresh paint and no rusty rivets on bridge girders, when I don't have to take unpaid furlough days as a teacher, when fire stations are fully staffed across this country, then maybe I'll have a different outlook. Until then, while our Country crumbles beneath us I will continue to think the real "freeloaders" are the anti-tax, strip the government fanatics, not the powerless, uneducated poor.

You are not alone Doyle, most everyone who spends money produced by the tax payer from the welfare recipient to the public employee feels the same way. If you are consuming tax dollars you want more, if you are the one producing tax dollars you are reluctant to pay more. I don't mind paying more if my government would clean up the waste and fraud to some degree "FIRST"!

[SLO MO]

Get off it man. That video was put together with propaganda 101. Some or all of his points maybe true. But the way it is presented is in such a fashion as to inspire emotional response and not encouraging full understanding of each point by limiting the information given.

I will be fact checking his points because it is worth my time. But open your "blinders" and realize everyone is limiting what they are saying so "you" don't have all the information.

Dude, I say this all the time, a simple Google search for information provided from multiple sources can give you the truth. I just picked a random point in that video about page 58 where it supposedly says "the Govt will hand out national ID cards and have access to your finance". But here is an easy listing from another fact checking site of the True or False in that video and emails with the same message that are being circulated. The people that create this stuff know that their target market will not dig into it and find out if it its true or not.

The entire list of facts can be found here FactCheck.org : Twenty-six Lies About H.R. 3200

Summary
Our inbox has been overrun with messages asking us to weigh in on a mammoth list of claims about the House health care bill. The chain e-mail purports to give "a few highlights" from the first half of the bill, but the list of 48 assertions is filled with falsehoods, exaggerations and misinterpretations. We examined each of the e-mail’s claims, finding 26 of them to be false and 18 to be misleading, only partly true or half true. Only four are accurate. A few of our "highlights":

The e-mail claims that page 30 of the bill says that "a government committee will decide what treatments … you get," but that page refers to a "private-public advisory committee" that would "recommend" what minimum benefits would be included in basic, enhanced and premium insurance plans.

The e-mail says that "non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services" but points to a provision that prohibits discrimination in health care based on "personal characteristics." Another provision explicity forbids "federal payment for undocumented aliens."

It says "[g]overnment will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals." This provision isn’t about children with learning disabilities; instead, it pertains to restricted enrollment in "special needs" plans, a category of Medicare Advantage plans. Enrollment is already restricted. The bill extends the ability to do that.

It claims that a section about "Community-based Home Medical Services" means "more payoffs for ACORN." ACORN does not provide medical home services. The e-mail interprets any reference to the word "community" to be some kind of payoff for ACORN. That’s nonsense.

Analysis
This chain e-mail claims to give a run-down of what’s in the House health care bill, H.R. 3200. Instead, it shows evidence of a reading comprehension problem on the part of the author. Some of our more enterprising readers have even taken it upon themselves to debunk a few of the assertions, sending us their notes and encouraging us to write about it. We applaud your fact-checking skills and your skepticism. And skepticism is warranted.

[Gpmo]

You are not alone Doyle, most everyone who spends money produced by the tax payer from the welfare recipient to the public employee feels the same way. If you are consuming tax dollars you want more, if you are the one producing tax dollars you are reluctant to pay more. I don't mind paying more if my government would clean up the waste and fraud to some degree "FIRST"!

I think you are 100% correct in needing to clean up the waste and fraud and have it done as a priority.

[kml]

Why was everyting paraphrased and not just the actual text?

FactCheck.org : Twenty-six Lies About H.R. 3200
American politics is so much fun! Greatest spectator sport ever.

Twenty-six Lies About H.R. 3200

A notorious analysis of the House health care bill contains 48 claims. Twenty-six of them are false and the rest mostly misleading. Only four are true.Posted on August 28, 2009


Summary

Our inbox has been overrun with messages asking us to weigh in on a mammoth list of claims about the House health care bill. The chain e-mail purports to give "a few highlights" from the first half of the bill, but the list of 48 assertions is filled with falsehoods, exaggerations and misinterpretations. We examined each of the e-mail’s claims, finding 26 of them to be false and 18 to be misleading, only partly true or half true. Only four are accurate. A few of our "highlights":

• The e-mail claims that page 30 of the bill says that "a government committee will decide what treatments … you get," but that page refers to a "private-public advisory committee" that would "recommend" what minimum benefits would be included in basic, enhanced and premium insurance plans.
• The e-mail says that "non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services" but points to a provision that prohibits discrimination in health care based on "personal characteristics." Another provision explicity forbids "federal payment for undocumented aliens."
• It says "[g]overnment will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals." This provision isn’t about children with learning disabilities; instead, it pertains to restricted enrollment in "special needs" plans, a category of Medicare Advantage plans. Enrollment is already restricted. The bill extends the ability to do that.
• It claims that a section about "Community-based Home Medical Services" means "more payoffs for ACORN." ACORN does not provide medical home services. The e-mail interprets any reference to the word "community" to be some kind of payoff for ACORN. That’s nonsense.

Analysis

This chain e-mail claims to give a run-down of what’s in the House health care bill, H.R. 3200. Instead, it shows evidence of a reading comprehension problem on the part of the author. Some of our more enterprising readers have even taken it upon themselves to debunk a few of the assertions, sending us their notes and encouraging us to write about it. We applaud your fact-checking skills and your skepticism. And skepticism is warranted.

[kml]

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m.../30/e-mail-analysis-health-bill-needs-check-/