Cop shoots first ask questions later

[Dino]

First off, and it has already been stated, too many missing details here. Sounds as if the kid was armed

If he ran outside with a gun that changes many things.

As for the statement that most cops use the Taser first. A Taser is considered a less than lethal weapon which has limited range and allows for one shot. There is nothing that states an officer must use a Taser before a firearm. The situation at hand will always dictate tactics. Would you expect an officer to attempt an arrest on an armed gunman with pepper spray before ever drawing his sidearm? When it comes to most department policies, most put pepper spray and use of Taser on the same level on the use of force scale. In many situations where a Taser is deployed in a high risk situation the officer using the Taser has lethal force cover in the event the Taser does not work.

So what you are saying is: If I legally have a gun on my property and I attempt to defend my property (which is a stretch because we see no evidence of a weapon or defensive posture in the article) then I can expect to get shot by the police? Citizens should be allowed to protect themselves and should not have to rely upon law enforcement should someone come knock their door down nor fear getting shot by the police if they go outside to prevent them from getting in.

When an officer accepts a weapon he must also accept responsibility for using it. This guy is a 10 year veteran and should have been fully trained to deal with this type of situation.

Sorry, given the little we know, criminal charges against the officer, manslaughter at a minimun, 2d degree murder max.

Wrongful death lawsuit against the officer and agency certifying the officer, city and state. That should ensure the child is well provided for.

 

[fastblackblur]

sounds like you were taught well. Never shoot to wound, never shoot to kill, never shoot to warn, only shoot to stop the threat and continue shooting until the threat is no longer there. temperature!

Shooting center mass is shooting to kill. Center mass is aiming for the heart and lungs.

The cop made a mistake in this situation no way around it. If the guy was armed it just makes it a very understandable mistake. Everybody loses in a situation like this. I wonder if the burglars were caught? If they were they should have charges brought up on them for this crap.

 

[jefferycarman]

So what you are saying is: If I legally have a gun on my property and I attempt to defend my property (which is a stretch because we see no evidence of a weapon or defensive posture in the article) then I can expect to get shot by the police? Citizens should be allowed to protect themselves and should not have to rely upon law enforcement should someone come knock their door down nor fear getting shot by the police if they go outside to prevent them from getting in.

When an officer accepts a weapon he must also accept responsibility for using it. This guy is a 10 year veteran and should have been fully trained to deal with this type of situation.

Sorry, given the little we know, criminal charges against the officer, manslaughter at a minimun, 2d degree murder max.

Wrongful death lawsuit against the officer and agency certifying the officer, city and state. That should ensure the child is well provided for.

Are you serious?

There is no reason to exit your home to confront the burglar(s), especially if you have already phoned the police. No reason. If he heard the police arrive there is even less reason to leave the house. You have every right to protect yourself and your family. Property is a different story. Shoot someone in your yard for stealing your TV and you will be in jail.

Bottom line is, don't go outside if you know the police are on the way. The only time I have ever exited my home with my weapon drawn was when a car f'ing exploded behind my house. Yeah, it happens. As soon as my wife was on the phone with the police I went back inside. Not just for my safety, but for the officers safety.

An officer arriving on the scene of a violent crime does not need the "assistance" of the home owner in most cases. It is almost always better to be iin your home. Multiple reasons why it is. First it's more defensable then outside, you know it better. Second it all but eliminates that "shot by a cop" scenario. They don't shoot as much in the house if they know there is a family or occupants there.

No one said anything about not defending your home, unless it was some hidden message. Just be smart about it. Going outside in that scenario is bad. It doesn't help you, it doesn't help the police.

 

[jefferycarman]

Shooting center mass is shooting to kill. Center mass is aiming for the heart and lungs.

The cop made a mistake in this situation no way around it. If the guy was armed it just makes it a very understandable mistake. Everybody loses in a situation like this. I wonder if the burglars were caught? If they were they should have charges brought up on them for this crap.

Shooting center mass is not to kill. Shooting at the head is to kill. Center mass is, in our current day and age, for the most part a survivable wound. Obviously it can kill, but it's not a definite kill. The reason for shooting there is that it takes the fight out of jsut about anyone, and it's the largest portion of the body, thus minimizing the chance you will miss. Stray bullets always seem to find a target.

 

[NCpanther01]

Man this is tough! So many questions need to be answered!!! God Bless both families. Truly a sad story with no good to ever come from it!!!

As for the Taser it's a compliance tool to assist an arrest! My biggest question is why did the young man go outside if he called the police? I know 911 told him to stay inside and they asked him if he had a weapon.

 

[teamorion22]

There is probably more to the story BUT this is unacceptable, period

 

[Warchild]

Sorry, given the little we know, criminal charges against the officer, manslaughter at a minimun, 2d degree murder max.

Wrongful death lawsuit against the officer and agency certifying the officer, city and state. That should ensure the child is well provided for.

???

While I tried to find a way to say this politely, I have failed. You are simply ridiculous. You are ready to incinerate the LEO, yet by your own admission, you don't know díck about what really happen.

This behavior is a textbook definition of a forum troll.

Then again, I could never understand why someone would join a motorcycle-specific forum, but then primarily only talk politics and/or assume a contrary stance on every subject. It's not like there aren't countless web forums, blogs, email lists, etc for this kind of divisive crap, where one who is addicted to political tripe can spew forth their view of the world 24x7.

I suppose some folks just like to read their own print.... whatever..... have a blast, if that's your thang....

 

[WWJD]

Sounds to me like it was a mistake. Is everyone no longer permitted to make mistakes in our perfection-obsessed society? No wonder we're all up tight and over stressed. But a sad situation for sure

 

[Professor]

Shooting center mass is not to kill. Shooting at the head is to kill. Center mass is, in our current day and age, for the most part a survivable wound. Obviously it can kill, but it's not a definite kill. The reason for shooting there is that it takes the fight out of jsut about anyone, and it's the largest portion of the body, thus minimizing the chance you will miss. Stray bullets always seem to find a target.

Your statements are for the most part spot on with a couple of clarifications needed. An officer is taught to shoot center of mass because it is a far larger target than a head shot. It allows for more of a margin of error than a head shot. The trunk of the body is also thicker and there is less of a chance to over-penetrate. “Shooting at the head is to killâ€￾ is not really an accurate statement. Modern police training does not include shooting to kill. An officer is taught to shoot to stop the immediate threat to themselves or to those they have been sworn in to protect. They are also taught to shoot until the threat is over. Common handgun rounds usually do not immediately stop the threat with a single shot even if in a vital area. There are other training incidents that involve headshots to stop the threat when needed.

The is a very tragic situation, one of an Officers worst nightmares, and like others have mentioned, there are many missing details. Regardless of these details, the police officer had to react in accordance with his training. I’m putting my money that he was at that point in survival mode. He made a decision to fire in a spilt second. Had the homeowner been one of the ones he was chasing, the officer might not have survived in the same situation had he not reacted in the split second he did. Regardless the officer had to make his decision in a split second. Now all the Monday morning quarterbacks will play should’a, would’a, could’a based on hours of going over rumors, news reports and maybe even a few of the many facts of the case.

My sympathy out for officer, his family, as well as the victim’s family.

 

[Mr Bogus]

I wanna live in SJ's world... it is a fantasy land and I always wanted that...

and you gotta love the title of the thread.. "cops shoot first ask questions later" ignorance at its best... I can see it now.. "Hi law breaker, did you have your heart set on killing me tonight? or should I just wait to find out myself? You know I love running around dark homes with 4 guys possibly armed with this little questionnaire to see if I should shoot or not".. joke right?

A guy runs outside to confront criminals when the police are on site, what is he John Wayne?.. or just S-T-U-P-I-D... maybe his parents bred him just for this reason.. get him shot and then make a buck off his dead azz...

The cops have NO idea what they are up against and frankly I think they get the benefit of the doubt because I do not think we pay them enough to get killed..

SJ, your credibility stands at such a low level that I am beginning to look at your posts as just senseless rants..

I look at that the same way as this thread is titled.. already biased and trolling for a debate...

all I can do is shake my head and feel bad that the country is getting more and more miss-informed, miss-guided people... I sure hope you are more level headed when riding...

 

[jefferycarman]

Your statements are for the most part spot on with a couple of clarifications needed. An officer is taught to shoot center of mass because it is a far larger target than a head shot. It allows for more of a margin of error than a head shot. The trunk of the body is also thicker and there is less of a chance to over-penetrate. “Shooting at the head is to killâ€￾ is not really an accurate statement. Modern police training does not include shooting to kill. An officer is taught to shoot to stop the immediate threat to themselves or to those they have been sworn in to protect. They are also taught to shoot until the threat is over. Common handgun rounds usually do not immediately stop the threat with a single shot even if in a vital area. There are other training incidents that involve headshots to stop the threat when needed.

The is a very tragic situation, one of an Officers worst nightmares, and like others have mentioned, there are many missing details. Regardless of these details, the police officer had to react in accordance with his training. I’m putting my money that he was at that point in survival mode. He made a decision to fire in a spilt second. Had the homeowner been one of the ones he was chasing, the officer might not have survived in the same situation had he not reacted in the split second he did. Regardless the officer had to make his decision in a split second. Now all the Monday morning quarterbacks will play should’a, would’a, could’a based on hours of going over rumors, news reports and maybe even a few of the many facts of the case.

My sympathy out for officer, his family, as well as the victim’s family.

Thanks for clarifying that Professor! Was in a rush and just not happy with some of what was put up.

If work would quit bothering me I could get more focused on the topic.

It's a tragic situation no matter how you look at it. The arm chair Monday morning qb's don't help. If you never have been in a situation where it's a split second decision on whether to shoot at a person or not you have no idea. Wait for the facts. Get the whole picture, then make a decision.

 

[Dino]

I wanna live in SJ's world... it is a fantasy land and I always wanted that...

and you gotta love the title of the thread.. "cops shoot first ask questions later" ignorance at its best... I can see it now.. "Hi law breaker, did you have your heart set on killing me tonight? or should I just wait to find out myself? You know I love running around dark homes with 4 guys possibly armed with this little questionnaire to see if I should shoot or not".. joke right? <=== We don't know why he left his house.

A guy runs outside to confront criminals when the police are on site, what is he John Wayne?.. or just S-T-U-P-I-D... maybe his parents bred him just for this reason.. get him shot and then make a buck off his dead azz... <===Again we don't know what the guy knew or even if he had a weapon
The cops have NO idea what they are up against and frankly I think they get the benefit of the doubt because I do not think we pay them enough to get killed.. <===Agree but we should trust that they will think before they shoot

SJ, your credibility stands at such a low level that I am beginning to look at your posts as just senseless rants..

I look at that the same way as this thread is titled.. already biased and trolling for a debate...

all I can do is shake my head and feel bad that the country is getting more and more miss-informed, miss-guided people... I sure hope you are more level headed when riding...

Seriously you are assuming A LOT in your post. Try reading the story and making a comment based on the information given.

 

[Dino]

???

While I tried to find a way to say this politely, I have failed. You are simply ridiculous. You are ready to incinerate the LEO, yet by your own admission, you don't know díck about what really happen. <== I freely admitted that my judgement was based on the information given, should more information come out I will surely adjust.
This behavior is a textbook definition of a forum troll.

Then again, I could never understand why someone would join a motorcycle-specific forum, but then primarily only talk politics and/or assume a contrary stance on every subject. It's not like there aren't countless web forums, blogs, email lists, etc for this kind of divisive crap, where one who is addicted to political tripe can spew forth their view of the world 24x7. <=== It is a shame that when confronted with an opposing view you resort to a personal attack
I suppose some folks just like to read their own print.... whatever..... have a blast, if that's your thang....

Keep trying

 

[Dino]

Are you serious?

There is no reason to exit your home to confront the burglar(s), especially if you have already phoned the police. <=== I Missed where this guy called the police No reason. If he heard the police arrive there is even less reason to leave the house. <=== DIdn't see this in the article either You have every right to protect yourself and your family. Property is a different story. Shoot someone in your yard for stealing your TV and you will be in jail. <===Depends on your state
Bottom line is, don't go outside if you know the police are on the way. The only time I have ever exited my home with my weapon drawn was when a car f'ing exploded behind my house. Yeah, it happens. As soon as my wife was on the phone with the police I went back inside. Not just for my safety, but for the officers safety.

An officer arriving on the scene of a violent crime does not need the "assistance" of the home owner in most cases. It is almost always better to be iin your home. Multiple reasons why it is. First it's more defensable then outside, you know it better. Second it all but eliminates that "shot by a cop" scenario. They don't shoot as much in the house if they know there is a family or occupants there.

No one said anything about not defending your home, unless it was some hidden message. Just be smart about it. Going outside in that scenario is bad. It doesn't help you, it doesn't help the police.

You are assuming a lot of information that was not provided in the article.

 

[Over_Easy]

Let's just wait and see what the facts are folks!

In short, even if the guy ran outside while armed that still doesn't justify getting shot, but does provide more of an understanding as to "why" he was shot. Unless the kid actually raised a lethal weapon towards the LEO there is no justification for it.

 

[jefferycarman]

You are assuming a lot of information that was not provided in the article.

I did not say any of those were facts. I said that "if" he called. If he heard. We don't know what his reasoning was, probably won't unless he told his wife before he did it. The only thing I was assuming is your ability read and comprehend.

 

[Mr Bogus]

yea you get at least 4 minutes to make a "shoot" decision when confronted in the dark by a possibly armed assailant...

man you guys need a short trip to the reality of the job from Fantasy land...

 

[Dino]

I did not say any of those were facts. I said that "if" he called. If he heard. We don't know what his reasoning was, probably won't unless he told his wife before he did it. The only thing I was assuming is your ability read and comprehend.

Well I did read and I made my judgement based of what I read not a lot of "ifs"....

 

[GA_boi]

Very sad...two families lives torn apart, and since the burglars were not arrested I'm thinking the whole thing may just be a tragic mistake

Me too!

 

[CTA_Busa_LE]

So what you are saying is: If I legally have a gun on my property and I attempt to defend my property (which is a stretch because we see no evidence of a weapon or defensive posture in the article) then I can expect to get shot by the police? Citizens should be allowed to protect themselves and should not have to rely upon law enforcement should someone come knock their door down nor fear getting shot by the police if they go outside to prevent them from getting in.

When an officer accepts a weapon he must also accept responsibility for using it. This guy is a 10 year veteran and should have been fully trained to deal with this type of situation.

Sorry, given the little we know, criminal charges against the officer, manslaughter at a minimun, 2d degree murder max.

Wrongful death lawsuit against the officer and agency certifying the officer, city and state. That should ensure the child is well provided for.

This is about as far out there as you can get. You, Mr Civil Rights himself, has already tried and convicted this officer based off a story done by the media. What do I know about the media? Plenty!! I've worked many a case as an LEO, saw what happened, was on scene, did the investigation, only to open the paper the next day to read a story about it that sounds like the media couldn't have been at the same place I was.

We have a judicial system that says we are innocent until proven guilty, or is that a right that you as the civil rights spokesperson has chosen to just ignore.

The story itself says this

"He was a good kid, trying to protect his house," said Alexander's mother-in-law Michelle Mooney. "And the police, instead of asking questions, they just shot first. Somebody has to be held responsible for this."

Trying to protect his house?? This doesn't prove he had a gun but comes real close to implying that he had some type of weapon. I can't imagine the officer just shooting without just cause. To determine if the officer was right or wrong in his actions will be based off what was known at that time, not what was learned in the hours and days after this incident.

Don't rush to judgement here based off what the media is reporting. There are many facts not being told and I am confident this will be investigated and the truth will be found. If the officer was wrong he will be held accountable. If the officer was justified he will be cleared.