Discussion 1. Is this appropriate?

[captain]

So back on topic... I think the difference between a 16ish girl getting married (which still happens today) and a 10 yr old girl dressing up PROFESSIONALLY and getting her picture taken in questionable positions on a BED wearing clothes that we all associate with a **** would be considered unacceptable today in most circles and in ALL circles 100 years ago. I personally think that the girl in the picture above is being cheapended, I don't think I have seen one post in this excercise in which the men did not notice the girls position and attire which instigated and imediate "hell no" from the dads. Its the full ensemble that really make this distasteful, nothing more innocent than a young girl, nothing more beautiful than a classy woman, nothing wrong with a bed, a dress, stilleto shoes or a sexy pose but put them together and you have a somewhat erotic pose from a very little girl, I find it shameful that a parent would even allow an image like this to be used knowing what the first impression would be from men... It's so vile in my opinion to allow a young child to be used in this way I just can't explain it....

To your point about mid teens, heck there is about a 6 year difference, but even 100 years ago to your point you would never have seen a 10yr old, 16 yr old, 20 yr old or 40 yr old woman dressed like this in public.... UNLESS she was a prostitute...... All of the values I mentioned earlier like modesty, humbleness and meekness meant something back then...

cap

 

[semi]

there is nothing new under the sun, anything you find today has been going on forever...just because the Cleavers had seperate beds on tv doesn't mean that is what was actually going on in the houses around town...i think you have an over-idealized sense of "the good ol' days", just take a read back through the Old Testament or do some light reading about the history of the royals in Europe during the Middle Ages...women of all ages have it better in this day and time than in any other time since the dawn of history

they used to be considered no different from livestock and would be traded (at very young ages) for nothing more than a peace agreement with a neighboring clan...they were sold for a couple donkeys to become another concubine in a harem

i understand what you are saying Cap but i don't have a problem with pictures being taken of fully clothed girls...those pictures do nothing for me sexually but i understand that some perverts will see them and get aroused...they do the same thing when they see young girls dressed in Catholic schoolgirl outfits or mini-skirts and those costumes have been around for years...i'm not going to live my life afraid that some perv is going to look at something the wrong way and get excited, otherwise, we will have to go back to the day of sleeves to the wrist and skirt hems to the shoes

 

[rbd5050]

And why is it that a license is needed for almost everything under the sun except to have kids?!?!? WTFO?!??

Rio

 

[captain]

We can agree to disagree, I just refuse to participate in the abuse or stick my head in the sand and say it's okay. Just because something has been going on since the dawn of time that doesn't mean it's okay to do. I know that even in the middle ages that for every woman that was sold as you mentioned there was a group of people that knew it was inappropriate. This is our time, our country, what will we stand up for and what will we excuse away as just being someone else's problem. The exploitation of our kids is unacceptable and I will do anything I can to stop it.

This isn't at all about me Semi this is about those kids that are going to be or already have been the victim of a sexual abuse. I just refuse to walk by and let things fall around me and to use the excuse that it's someone else's problem. I'm sure it's too late for this little girls parents as they are already raking in the cash, but I bet there are people that we interact with each day that we talk to that think this is perfectly okay... Maybe we could have a mature discussion about the implications of what they plan to do, maybe we can take some of the pressures off our kids in school. Maybe there is a dad on this forum that is dealing with the pressures of his daughter wanting to be like this... Maybe, just maybe this discussion has helped to solidify the resolve of a father here to hold firm to his beliefs and not give in to buy his daughter those super tight jeans or his 16yr old daughter that low cut top..... Maybe we can change the future if we lean on each other and say to our families and each other enough is enough!

Keep your daughters safe men, hold firm, put your foot down and think about what your daughter looks like and what she is inviting everytime she walks out of your home...

God bless you all...

cap

 

[twotonevert]

Good Lord, I cant even begin to describe the apprehension I hold every time I know my 19 year old daughter is out and about. I am blessed that she is a good person, has high morals and not interested in anything serious with a boy at this time. She is focused on work and college. But, she has never been steered in a direction that would sacrifice mine, her mothers, or her own morals. She has been allowed to be who she wants to be and guided to live her life with strong beliefs in what is right and wrong, to be independent and stand on her own two feet, to think for herself and working for something is the best way to get it. I am lucky and I know it.

 

[aussiesuzukirider]

It would be interesting to know what was said during the photo shoot as it would take not just the parents but the makeup artist, set designer, lighting operator and photographer to set up the shoot, was the word "morals" ever bought up, who knows.

 

[RX1Jim]

These images and exploitation of these girls is completely inappropriate, borderline criminal and inexcuseable. What is the purpose? These are very young girls. There is such incredible pressure put on girls and woment today by society to be super thin model look alikes already. Kids should be kids and allowed to have a wonderful childhood and grow up. The parenst who allow/encourage their children to dress like this are absolutely stupid. I consider these images digusting.

 

[Bosshound]

Parents take charge of your Children !!!! You are the Adult in the relationship.......Sure it's cool to be there friend but in reality they are looking for YOUR LEADERSHIP !

Robert

 

[skydivr]

If you are a dad, i got turned onto this book, you might find it helpful..

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• How to communicate with your daughter – and how not to
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[semi]

Cap, I agree that we can agree to disagree and it doesn't affect our friendship in the least. I still admire the job you are doing in raising your children and don't doubt that each of you is doing the very best you know how. Who knows but if I had children, I might feel very differently. I wish you all the best of luck and hope your children turn out to be successful, moral, upstanding citizens that are a credit to their communities.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[captain]

Colen, very few people that I trust... You still remain in that group... I just think that we have diffierent perspectives. I know your background, you know mine.. This topic has ZERO change on our relationship or friendship... ZERO NADA!

 

[VIPER]

And that is the reason i love this board!!!!! the 2 comments above!!!! Very mature upstanding people capable of disagreeing and not turning it into a big knock down drag out!!!!

I was hesitant to enter this topic because my views are majorly old fashioned but i will add my thoughts.
First let me say though the first 2 pics arent porn they are very provacative and i feel inappropriate. If any one of us saw those 2 kids dressed like that out in public the first comments and thoughts out of our minds and mouths would have been are you kidding me!?
The last pic of brook is porn. There are no 2 ways about it. It is child porn. Wether we can see nipples or the pink she is naked in the pic and who ever took the pic needs to be arrested because they had to see her naked. The photographer needs to be jailed strung up and disposed of. None of these pictures are ART. They are not tasteful and shouldnt have been taken.
We have a pretty good mix of ages and stages of life on this board and i am proud that the overwhelming majority find this to be wrong. You know there was a few comments on here saying parent need to step up and guide these kids. I would add a few things to that. Now days it is getting harder and harder to raise kids. you have sooo many rules and noses in your business that its getting impossible almost to discipline your child. Lets face it kids need discipline. I know i did when i was a kid. Now days kids have very little if any cause we as parents have to be afraid of going to jail or the kids getting taken away because of "abuse". If our parents had to face all the rules and regulations of raising kids we have to now they would have been in jail non stop.
We dont need anymore government regulations for our personal lives thats for sure. they already have to much of our lives under control anyway. If we arent careful we will live in a society that would remind me of Demolition Man. Has anyone seen it. Thats what we are heading for soon.
So now that i have ranted on and on....I respect everyones opinions and have enjoyed this conversation.

 

[Big Bo]

Someone should be taken out back and "learned".

 

[Jay Willie]

OK Cap. Didn't take time to read through everyone else's comments, but I'll share my thoughts. This may get a little deeper and go a little farther than what was solicited but the question was posed so here goes...

The responsibility of protecting innocence rests within many different frameworks of society but finds its greatest role with the adults of the inner family circle, more typically referred to as Mom and Dad; a well known fact and generally accepted and lived as the rule by most, alas hoped for by some, and forlornly yet to be experienced by others. Kudos to those who understand virtue and have the nards to state, train, and live by life principles without thinking it wiser to tiptoe without comment. Shameful are the silences born out in the aftermath of shattered lives left behind by those who either said nothing or lack the awareness of the importance of acknowledging, living, and teaching good standards. (This does not mean at all that to have the nards (as an authority figure) you have to be a bully, quite the opposite in fact.) But, as in all things principled, the original question begs yet more ?'s…

How many different ‘adults’ did these children encounter to finally arrive at the point of their depiction?
Then there’s the ever culminating, “If these children were of age, say eighteen, how many would give the ‘nod of approval’?â€

From my perspective, principles in life are to provide a foundation from which we will choose to express life as we, perhaps hopefully want to, live it. These are meant to train us to live life in a way that contributes to the strength of not only the primary social circle (family), but to also carry that influence into the ever broadening concentric of society. However, life conditions can dictate so many ‘other’ principles that they may even cause the lines between what is or isn’t appropriate to blur from consideration.

In the some odd years of life I’ve been allowed to experience, I‘ve caught a glimpse of some of the ‘darker sides’ of society. In many cases, an ‘adult’ had the opportunity to forbid and/or prevent the expression of some ‘inappropriate behavior’, and for whatever reason didn’t move to intervene. (I’ve also known circumstances where an ‘adult’ had an opportunity to present principled standards for successful and healthy living but either didn’t quite know how, or was afraid to appear ‘legalistic’).

Because of these ‘acts of inappropriate behavior’, innocence was removed and replaced with experiences that could possibly find themselves rewarding appropriately expressed in an entirely different setting (time and place). Thus, the definition for the word ‘perversion’ - "spoiling something good or right. The process of affecting something good or right in a negative way so that it becomes something bad or wrong." (English Dictionary)

I would say that these images should be considered ‘spoiling the good’ of youth. By definition, I would also say these images should be considered a perversion of the strength of innocence intended for youth to live life. Innocence should be reflected in a quality of life lived until such a time as physical age and mental awareness have been well trained in the proper and appropriate place for expressing life and in a way that promotes the strength of healthy relationships.

The strengths acquired through such principled living are what helps relationships not only survive but thrive. The standards lived out by the owner and many of the members of Hayabusa.org are a testimony to the relational successes gained by guarding the use of this site as it may fall within such standards.

I think that’ll do it from here. Carry on…