Ticket - ends justify the means

Bronto

Registered
A riding buddy and I recieved identical tickets. Going at near 65 mph in a 55 mph zone. But we both got tickets for 80.0 mph. He since joined the Air Force and can't contest the ticket. Both of us have done the Wirtten Trial by declaration and still guilty. He had a simple declaration and I had extensive 12 page document with 5 photos and 3 diagrams. Now I have a Novo Trial.
Cause I'm not an expert with radar. Using the officiers expertise will help prove my points. When I recall the events of the day. I will say I was going the basic speed law with the prevailing traffic(65 mph). My observations of my speed before the passinglane of 60-65mph. As 1st witness to My riding buddy saying if CHP stuck us with 70 mph He might of almost believed it.
We think the CHP used a calibration readout of 80.0 mph exactly. Either didn't get a clear radar display or didn't like how we slowed from our peak speed but he didn't lock it in time. To cast doubt on multiple vehicle ticketing. We both obviously were going different speeds in the passing lane. I almost ran the lead rider over
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In the boonies enough, no one contests traffic tickets. Saving time and money just paying it. The Court House is official Superior Court with a bonnified Judge. All day case loads of much more serious offenses, from DUI, suspended licenses, Parol violations, Muder, assault, resisting arrest to civil trails against corporations. All have their lawyers and public defenders. Months of checking the Court's calander of court cases. Mine will be the only minor single speeding ticket contested by defendant themself. I feel like someone asked for volunters and everyone took two steps back, left me standing there.
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What you think ? any refinement is appreciated.
Cross examination - CHP officier.

Show CHP station
------------------
Point to the diagram and photo the location of the CHP cruiser. On the shoulder of the southbound lane. is this correct. y/n

Questions to estiablish forward and rearward ticketing.
-----------------------------------------------------
From this location you could see traffic going both directions ? y/n
Did you check for speeders from both directions ? y/n
Did the radar allow checking the speeds from either direction ? y/n

Question to eastablish the radar coverage.
-----------------------------------------
Using the photo point to the hill top. Ask was traffic visible to radar or yourself at the other side of this hilltop before the passinglane? y/n
This is from where you first saw Us top of the hill entering the passinglane ? y/n (point to the photo and diagram)

Questions about the stop to confirm.
------------------------------------
This was a multiple vehicle stop ? y/n
Two riders on motorcycles. The lead rider on the white Yamaha 600 FZR motorcycle was first followed by myself on a green Suzuki Hayabusa motorcycle. Is this what you saw ? y/n
Did you hear either one of us answer or say that we were speeding by a probted question or by voluntary admission ? y/n
Did you see how both of us were in disbief of the speed you said we were going ? y/n
You allowed us to see the Radar console inside the cruiser . We all saw 80.0 locked on one of it's display, is this correct ? y/n
Exactly 80.0 mph displayed, is this a common occurance to lock on the radar an exsact amount ? y/n

Questions about the radar.
--------------------------
Not asking your preforming a calibration to the Radar.
Is there a way to test calibration accuracy in the field by internal or external means ? y/n
Do you check accuracy with field calibration periodically ? y/n
Playing with the radar is it posible to lock in a display of a calibration test readout ? y/n
What speed is indicated by the radar during calibration test ? 35.0 mph and 80.0 mph
Are there Automatic features that overide any of the manual controls ? y/n (Fastest target, largest target, maximum speed lock, antenna switching)
Not counting a real time speeds by the second patrol display. Does your radar have multiple target locking display or registers ? y/n
Radar trained on a group of cars will show the first car's speed. It continues to track this first car until that it clears out of the way enough so the radar can see the next car clearly. This true ? y/n

Question to establish Lead rider and my position and difference of speeds.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The lead rider on the white Yamaha. He was first to enter the passinglane. I following some distance behind 100-150 feet is this what you saw ? y/n
Did the radar show a clear indication of two targets going 80 mph ? y/n
On which bike did you lock the speed indication on ? (Lead or second bike)
Without any assumtions, did you observe two motorcycle riders traveling the same speed ? y/n

Question to establish braking at 80 mph and 65mph to 45 mph
------------------------------------------------------------
Did you notice how I was braking to slow, was this an indication I was slowing from 80 mph ? y/n
I recall tapping the front brake for a fraction of a second result the bike to dip the nose. I know it's a minor detail, but it seemeed you had taken a Q from this to finally decide to wave us over. You recall this ? y/n Use the diagram.



<!--EDIT|Bronto
Reason for Edit: None given...|1136465132 -->

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Bronto what are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to reduce the ticket down to 65 or get it thrown out?
 
All very good and thought out questions.

The only problem I see is that they prove nothing. Sure it may raise speculation. However you're going to be asking questions about a routine traffic stop involving not one but two "crotch rockets". Asking these questions of an officer who has been trained to answer questions in a particular manner. Training that helps them answer questions, for the non-routine encounters, fairly accurately and leaving little wiggle room. If the officer answers to the best of his ability or otherwise, his answers my only solidify his case for pulling you over.

Just food for thought.
 
"Is there a way to test calibration accuracy in the field by internal or external means ? y/n
Do you check accuracy with field calibration periodically ? y/n"

Most departments check with a tuning fork.
 
"Is there a way to test calibration accuracy in the field by internal or external means ? y/n
Do you check accuracy with field calibration periodically ? y/n"

Most departments check with a tuning fork.
They STILL do it that way? I didnt like that back in 87 when I was an MP!!
 
"Is there a way to test calibration accuracy in the field by internal or external means ? y/n
Do you check accuracy with field calibration periodically ? y/n"

Most departments check with a tuning fork.
They STILL do it that way? I didnt like that back in 87 when I was an MP!!
ah, a fellow 5811.....

yeah back in my MP days we had to test them with two forks, one was like 15mph and the other was like 65mph. I would test the unit when I set it up, after each stop, and at the end of the shift and annotate it in the log book. The unit was sent out every quarter for service.
 
Bronto what are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to reduce the ticket down to 65 or get it thrown out?
Wrongfully accused of a speed that is so inflated. The entire traffic stop was fraudulant. Dismissal would do justice right. It would leave a bad taste in mouth. Would like to also keep options open for reduced fine, points and traffic school.

Thanks for posts and PMs. Good to get an outside perspective on this before finding out in court it's flawed.
Going to work this over for few days, post again.
 
"in the boonies enough, no one contests traffic tickets"

Hmmm, reckon why that might be?

Saw the same scenario play out "in the boonies" in one of my many trips to a court room. This one fellow actually brought in matchbox cars and a rather detailed mapping substrate to prove he was NOT following too closely, the offense he was there to contest and one that around here is as common as humid days.

The "boonie" judge fined him and selected the next case like the defendant was speaking Chinese and wearing a "vote for Kerry" Tshirt! It was kinda funny (but only because he put soooo much into his defense), only the dude from American Idol; Simon, could have beat this judge in negating this poor guy's "case".

I'd pay it and press on (at the posted speed). But then again, I AM a boonie!

Let us know how you do!



<!--EDIT|YH2K
Reason for Edit: "Modification of legal jargon"|1136509041 -->
 
Judge will take offense to your defense....sure they need the revenue in the 'boonies'
Plead guilty and hope for a reduction. Good luck either way.
 
At trial, listen closely to the officer's story, because cross is used to "test" that story. Your story should be simple and understandable. If you testify, they'll be able to cross you too, so be ready. Good luck.
 
If you are intent on beating the ticket, get yourself a traffic only attorney and he can undoubtably beat it. To bad you aren't here in the state of washington, I could turn you onto an attorney that will beat any radar ticket and you don't even have to show up in court. He has been doing traffic for 15 years and only lost a hand full of radar tickets and never lost a ticket from an airplane. His best run on radar was 870 radar wins before loosing one. I have had him on four radar tickets, won them all. I have turned many of my buddies onto him and none have lost a single ticket. I don't know how california courts operate but I'm sure someone in your area is just as successful and can beat the ticket, hands down? It's just a matter of finding them. This attorney says your chances of winning a radar ticket on your own is almost impossible. I believe that. You may get the fine lowered but you still have a ticket on your record.

My advise, spend the four or five hundred dollars for the right attorney and keep it off your record. Not just any attorney can win, you must have one that specializes in traffic and has a record of winning!
 
A riding buddy and I recieved identical tickets. Going at near 65 mph in a 55 mph zone. But we both got tickets for 80.0 mph. He since joined the Air Force and can't contest the ticket. Both of us have done the Wirtten Trial by declaration and still guilty. He had a simple declaration and I had extensive 12 page document with 5 photos and 3 diagrams. Now I have a Novo Trial.
Cause I'm not an expert with radar. Using the officiers expertise will help prove my points. When I recall the events of the day. I will say I was going the basic speed law with the prevailing traffic(65 mph). My observations of my speed before the passinglane of 60-65mph. As 1st witness to My riding buddy saying if CHP stuck us with 70 mph He might of almost believed it.
We think the CHP used a calibration readout of 80.0 mph exactly. Either didn't get a clear radar display or didn't like how we slowed from our peak speed but he didn't lock it in time. To cast doubt on multiple vehicle ticketing. We both obviously were going different speeds in the passing lane. I almost ran the lead rider over
biggrin.gif

In the boonies enough, no one contests traffic tickets. Saving time and money just paying it. The Court House is official Superior Court with a bonnified Judge. All day case loads of much more serious offenses, from DUI, suspended licenses, Parol violations, Muder, assault, resisting arrest to civil trails against corporations. All have their lawyers and public defenders. Months of checking the Court's calander of court cases. Mine will be the only minor single speeding ticket contested by defendant themself. I feel like someone asked for volunters and everyone took two steps back, left me standing there.  
laugh.gif
 
laugh.gif


What you think ? any refinement is appreciated.
Cross examination - CHP officier.

Show CHP station
------------------
Point to the diagram and photo the location of the CHP cruiser. On the shoulder of the southbound lane. is this correct. y/n

Questions to estiablish forward and rearward ticketing.
-----------------------------------------------------
From this location you could see traffic going both directions ? y/n
Did you check for speeders from both directions ? y/n
Did the radar allow checking the speeds from either direction ? y/n

Question to eastablish the radar coverage.
-----------------------------------------
Using the photo point to the hill top. Ask was traffic visible to radar or yourself at the other side of this hilltop before the passinglane? y/n
This is from where you first saw Us top of the hill entering the passinglane ? y/n (point to the photo and diagram)

Questions about the stop to confirm.
------------------------------------
This was a multiple vehicle stop ? y/n
Two riders on motorcycles. The lead rider on the white Yamaha 600 FZR motorcycle was first  followed by myself on a green Suzuki Hayabusa motorcycle. Is this what you saw ? y/n
Did you hear either one of us answer or say that we were speeding by a probted question or by voluntary admission ? y/n
Did you see how both of us were in disbief of the speed you said we were going ? y/n
You allowed us to see the Radar console inside the cruiser . We all saw 80.0 locked on one of it's display, is this correct ? y/n
Exactly 80.0 mph displayed,  is this a common occurance to lock on the radar an exsact amount ? y/n

Questions about the radar.
--------------------------
Not asking your preforming a calibration to the Radar.
Is there a way to test calibration accuracy in the field by internal or external means ? y/n
Do you check accuracy with field calibration periodically ? y/n
Playing with the radar is it posible to lock in a display of a calibration test  readout ? y/n
What speed is indicated by the radar during calibration test ? 35.0 mph and 80.0 mph
Are there Automatic features that overide any of the manual controls ? y/n (Fastest target, largest target, maximum speed lock, antenna switching)
Not counting a real time speeds by the second patrol display. Does your radar have multiple target locking display or registers ? y/n
Radar trained on a group of cars will show the first car's speed. It continues to track this first car until that it clears out of the way enough so the radar can see the next car clearly. This true ? y/n

Question to establish Lead rider and my position and difference of speeds.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The lead rider on the white Yamaha. He was first to enter the passinglane. I following some distance behind 100-150 feet is this what you saw ? y/n
Did the radar show a clear indication of two targets going 80 mph ? y/n
On which bike did you lock the speed indication on ? (Lead or second bike)
Without any assumtions, did you observe two motorcycle riders traveling the same speed ? y/n

Question to establish braking at 80 mph and 65mph to 45 mph
------------------------------------------------------------
Did you notice how I was braking to slow, was this an indication I was slowing from 80 mph ? y/n
I recall tapping the front brake for a fraction of a second result the bike to dip the nose. I know it's a minor detail, but it seemeed you had taken a Q from this to finally decide to wave us over. You recall this ? y/n  Use the diagram.

Step 1: Go to court
Step 2: Loose (and if the cop shows, you will loose, quit wasting time trying to prepare a defense)
Step 3: Appeal (get a form from the clerk)
Step 4: Smooze the procecutor who has better things to do than deal with a dumb ass speeding ticket. Offer For striking it from your record offer to complete traffic school or whatever your state has. If being nice doesnt work tell them you plan to request a jury trial and several depositions. If they choose that route they will waste 10 times the $ what they will get from you.
Step 5: laugh in the cops face on your way out. (or not
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)
Step 6: pay the shittly little fee and attend the one day school.
Step 7: leave 30ft black mark coming out of the parkiing lot.
Step 8: See step 1
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My brother has never had this not work(always gets to the procecutor(although he has lucked out with a no show cop) and they always deal), and is on a first name basis with the driving school instructor(fought somethig like 8 tickets). I just learned of this method but will be using it from now on.

Not sure exactly how the written works, but I assume you are going directly to step 3.

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If you ask that many questions, you're going to piss off the judge and . . .

. . . lose.

HOWEVER, if the judge doesn't let you ask all of your questions, you may well have preserved your right to appeal. Remember, you can NOT appeal unless you have preserved your right to do so DURING THE INITIAL TRIAL. It's a procedural thing and that is the best reason of all to have an attorney on your side.

Good luck!

--Wag--
 
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