Terri Shiavo

[Revlis]

There is a difference between someone on life support and someone who needs help eating and drinking and Rev u need more to drink Come on, she is NOT on life support, and is only assisted with eating and all her organs function fine. Remove the feeding tube and let her starve to death? If that isn't cruel, then i dunno what is. And because she isn't living a life like all the rest of you 'normal-living' people, we just start killing them off? What will we choose for people born with disabilities and where are u going to draw the line? Who decides what is morally right and wrong... Up for grabs

As for casually saying, 'oh i don't want to be a burden to others if i'm like that or don't ever let me live like that'... i'm sure you'll be singing a different tune if you felt your life was about to end.

Just my 2 cents

"All her Organs are working fine..."

Umm, Except for that critical one between the ears. There is nothing there Bro. Even if it is there, she is a Non-communicative Vegatable. She has NO quality of life, NOTHING. Say she is trapped inside, fully functional, fully aware and simply unable to communicate. Dayum, can you imagine the horror? Unable to do ANYTHING?

Seriously, Think hard about it for a moment. No way to communicate, no way to move or do anything for yourself?

It's a nightmare, a true horror, and only a twisted belief would lead to such an existance being dragged out for years and years... It's Sick.

Should have injected her about 14 years ago and ended the suffering. It's a group evil that has has kept her flesh functional for 15 years, it's twisted.

 

[(silencer)]

The thing that really makes me livid in all of this is the continued political manuvering by politicians (which seem to be more right-wing/Republican than anything) in trying to look good in vague, impotent attempts to keep her "alive". Firstly, it's cruel to the family... look at her parents and siblings... the anguish and pain in their faces and expression get more pronounced in each passing day as they futilely go from one avenue to the next, trying to wrangle a way to keep her alive, mainly because of political (and religious)fervor and encouragement. These people are being cruelly manipulated in order to make these politicos try to look good. I guarantee you that if the national spotlight wasn't on this case, none of them would care one iota.

(Interestingly, it appears that the backlash on this is beginning... the approval ratings of people who have tried to interfere with political clout, from the President on down, have taken nose dives in recent weeks... Bush's own approval has dived almost ten percentage points and most analysts agree that this is the main reason)

Along those lines, I find it amusing that politicians, especially the Republicans are weighing in on this with so much fervor. Considering that they are always championing "less government interference in people's personal lives," the hypocrisy is palatable.

I completely agree. I was in support of most actions by Republicans lately, but this whole political situation has turned sour. It's like Bush & Bush feel like they need to thank the Christian religious fanatics for helping GW win the re-election, so they don't want to look like they're letting that minority down by doing nothing as Terri's body is allowed to finally die. It's just a shame that they've so strongly turned away a far larger amount of middle-of-the-road supporters such as myself. That's what is showing in the ratings polls.

 

[1127 TO 1299]

Correct me if I am wrong but...

... why would the husband be the only one to make a decision.

The whole family must take the decision. And whoever decides she lives takes responsability.

 

[RandomNickname]

The thing that really makes me livid in all of this is the continued political manuvering by politicians (which seem to be more right-wing/Republican than anything) in trying to look good in vague, impotent attempts to keep her "alive".  Firstly, it's cruel to the family... look at her parents and siblings... the anguish and pain in their faces and expression get more pronounced in each passing day as they futilely go from one avenue to the next, trying to wrangle a way to keep her alive, mainly because of political (and religious)fervor and encouragement.  These people are being cruelly manipulated in order to make these politicos try to look good.  I guarantee you that if the national spotlight wasn't on this case, none of them would care one iota.

(Interestingly, it appears that the backlash on this is beginning... the approval ratings of people who have tried to interfere with political clout, from the President on down, have taken nose dives in recent weeks... Bush's own approval has dived almost ten percentage points and most analysts agree that this is the main reason)

Along those lines, I find it amusing that politicians, especially the Republicans are weighing in on this with so much fervor.  Considering that they are always championing "less government interference in people's personal lives," the hypocrisy is palatable.

I completely agree.  I was in support of most actions by Republicans lately, but this whole political situation has turned sour.  It's like Bush & Bush feel like they need to thank the Christian religious fanatics for helping GW win the re-election, so they don't want to look like they're letting that minority down by doing nothing as Terri's body is allowed to finally die.  It's just a shame that they've so strongly turned away a far larger amount of middle-of-the-road supporters such as myself.  That's what is showing in the ratings polls.

Friend of mine who happens to be a dyed-in-the-wool card-carrying Republican said about the same thing.He mentioned how the one good thing the political infighting has done is separate one group from the other, and made it far easier to not vote for the people interfering in this the next time around. Which brings a smile to my cold, black heart.

 

[Charlesbusa]

What a waste of taxpayer money; reference the court costs, politicians salary, etc...

I don't want my tax dollars wasted as judges debate & politicians debate.  This is the spouse's decision, end of story.

I don't want to pay taxes to house murdering child molestors, and convicted murderers, but I don't have a choice. I'm tired of hearing all the input from people who just heard of this case a few weeks ago and know nothing about it. Brian, the one who started this thread learned more about the situation during one of our rides last week. Many people have a lot to say with little background info. I'm not claiming to know it all but I did tell my kids that if I'm ever in a situation like this and my wife is with another man, that she doesn't get to be a part of the decisions on my life.

Kevin

Are you including me in, "I'm tired of hearing all the input from people who just heard of this case a few weeks ago and know nothing about it."

?

 

[Relsek]

Friend of mine who happens to be a dyed-in-the-wool card-carrying Republican said about the same thing.He mentioned how the one good thing the political infighting has done is separate one group from the other, and made it far easier to not vote for the people interfering in this the next time around.  Which brings a smile to my cold, black heart.

It's amazing that in a situation like this, we complain about what the electeds either do or don't do. Most of the time Americans forget by election day what happened 6 months earlier. Our own Governer is in a lose lose situation. If he does something he's wrong, if he doesn't he's wrong to someone else.

  What we really should do, if we don't like the way things are happening, let the elected know that we want it changed and see that it gets changed.

  I never have given my opinion about whether or not to leave the tube out or to put it back in. I'm would guess that Rev and others think I'm one of the Religious freaks and I walk in step with the protestors outside the hospice. We've had religious discussions on this board before and they always lead down a dead end road but you get to know people and how they think.

  People argue and say Terri wouldn't want to live like that. If that's the case then let her die. Her parents say she wouldn't want to die that way, so then, let her live. The husband makes the choice because he is the husband. It may very well be that he is right and she did say she doesn't want to live this way, too bad his credibility is scarred by his actions over the last several years.

  This is just a bad situation.



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[RandomNickname]

It's amazing that in a situation like this, we complain about what the electeds either do or don't do. Most of the time Americans forget by election day what happened 6 months earlier. Our own Governer is in a lose lose situation. If he does something he's wrong, if he doesn't he's wrong to someone else.
[/QUOTE]

He's only in a lose lose situation because he put himself there.  If the politicians had not interfered in this situation, which is outside the realm of their jurisdiction to do, then no harm, no foul.

The moment Jeb decided to let the vocal minority sway him into believing he needed to interfere by ramrodding a law thorugh approval and signing in order to interfere in the situation in 2003, he stamped his own ticket.  He never should have gotten involved, and if he hadn't, then no one except the most vitriolic of zealots would have been able to hold him liable in either way (and they're going to do it no matter what).

And you seem to be damning people for taking a voice and being unhappy for how the elected officials are operating.  Contrary to rumor, this is still a representative government, and the elected officials/politicos are supposed to do what is the will of the people.  Are you actually faulting people for expressing their opinion and disdain for these politicians putting their own hypocritical wants above that of the citizenry?

What we really should do, if we don't like the way things are happening, let the elected know that we want it changed and see that it gets changed.[/QUOTE]

That's what people expressing their dislike for what has happened are doing. Or are you saying they can do that as long as they don't dare actually complain?



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[Relsek]

It's amazing that in a situation like this, we complain about what the electeds either do or don't do. Most of the time Americans forget by election day what happened 6 months earlier. Our own Governer is in a lose lose situation. If he does something he's wrong, if he doesn't he's wrong to someone else.

He's only in a lose lose situation because he put himself there.  If the politicians had not interfered in this situation, which is outside the realm of their jurisdiction to do, then no harm, no foul.

The moment Jeb decided to let the vocal minority sway him into believing he needed to interfere by ramrodding a law thorugh approval and signing in order to interfere in the situation in 2003, he stamped his own ticket.  He never should have gotten involved, and if he hadn't, then no one except the most vitriolic of zealots would have been able to hold him liable in either way (and they're going to do it no matter what).

And you seem to be damning people for taking a voice and being unhappy for how the elected officials are operating.  Contrary to rumor, this is still a representative government, and the elected officials/politicos are supposed to do what is the will of the people.  Are you actually faulting people for expressing their opinion and disdain for these politicians putting their own hypocritical wants above that of the citizenry?

What we really should do, if we don't like the way things are happening, let the elected know that we want it changed and see that it gets changed.[/QUOTE]

That's what people expressing their dislike for what has happened are doing.  Or are you saying they can do that as long as they don't dare actually complain?[/QUOTE]
1. Whom am I damming? You are not going to please everyone, you need to do what you think is right.

Contrary to rumor, this is still a representative government, and the elected officials/politicos are supposed to do what is the will of the people.
[/QUOTE]

That's exactly what Jeb and don't forget, the fla congress that we elected did.

That's what people expressing their dislike for what has happened are doing. Or are you saying they can do that as long as they don't dare actually complain? [/QUOTE]

Where is the disagreement here. Is this Aught6 in disguise?

 

[paineless4u]

told the wifey today no life support for me and to donate my major organs if something happened.

 

[(silencer)]

It's amazing that in a situation like this, we complain about what the electeds either do or don't do. Most of the time Americans forget by election day what happened 6 months earlier. Our own Governer is in a lose lose situation. If he does something he's wrong, if he doesn't he's wrong to someone else.

What we really should do, if we don't like the way things are happening, let the elected know that we want it changed and see that it gets changed.

Yeah.. but I think the problem here is that the tubes have been pulled about 3 times previously and reinserted for various reasons, but now the government jumps in because of the minority-group protests outside Terri's hospice. Like him or not, the laws specifically say the husband is the guardian and has the choice of what to do. The fact that the Bush boys want to jump in and change laws specifically aimed toward this case is what has turned a lot of people away from them. Changing laws shouldn't be a rush decision like this - they were already debated and created for certain reasons in the past.

 

[Relsek]

What a waste of taxpayer money; reference the court costs, politicians salary, etc...

I don't want my tax dollars wasted as judges debate &amp; politicians debate.  This is the spouse's decision, end of story.

I don't want to pay taxes to house murdering child molestors, and convicted murderers, but I don't have a choice. I'm tired of hearing all the input from people who just heard of this case a few weeks ago and know nothing about it. Brian, the one who started this thread learned more about the situation during one of our rides last week. Many people have a lot to say with little background info. I'm not claiming to know it all but I did tell my kids that if I'm ever in a situation like this and my wife is with another man, that she doesn't get to be a part of the decisions on my life.

Kevin

Are you including me in, &quot;I'm tired of hearing all the input from people who just heard of this case a few weeks ago and know nothing about it.&quot;

?

Not if you don't fit that catagory. I'm referring to the national news folks most of all. No matter the side they are taking. So many suddenly are experts. You just had the text I wanted to quote.

Kev



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[Relsek]

He never should have gotten involved, and if he hadn't, then no one except the most vitriolic of zealots would have been able to hold him liable in either way (and they're going to do it no matter what).

At least these people stand by their convictions. I respect that. So many will overlook what they see a bad just to keep thier guy in office, which to me means they have no convictions.

Kev



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[RandomNickname]

At least these people stand by their convictions. I respect that. So many will overlook what they see a bad just to keep thier guy in office, which to me means they have no convictions.

Kev  

True.

The joys of partisan politics, eh?

 

[Relsek]

At least these people stand by their convictions. I respect that. So many will overlook what they see a bad just to keep thier guy in office, which to me means they have no convictions.

Kev  

True.

The joys of partisan politics, eh?

 

[Relsek]

 This is the spouse's decision, end of story.

Hey Charles, can I ask you a question? I've thought about this myself and thought I ask you the same.


If you were laid up in the hospital for an extended period of time and a decision had to be made about your end of life matters. Would you really want your wife making those decisions if she had already been giving herself to others, or would you rather leave it with perhaps your children (if you have them,) or other family members that love you as family?

The reason I ask is because I know that I feel love for my brothers and parents that I don't feel for my ex-wife. The place that she had in my life is now filled by the lovely Mrs. Kesler, I would not be a good candidate to make end of life decisions in my ex-wifes matters.

That has been my point all along, nothing political, religious, or anything else.

Kevin

 

[MAXIMUS_RO]

it has been 15 years after all...  it's not like the injuries just happened last week or something..

RE: the husband living with another woman and whatnot.

Not being from the area, you guys may not know the entire story. The idea of Terry's wishes being to &quot;not live like this&quot; didn't arise until after the husband began dating, and I believe it may also have been after he planned to marry the woman he is with now. I'm not saying he is a liar or anything, I don't know, but I know that it's hard to have the best interest of one woman in mind while you are with another woman that can give you what you want at the time. I still think he's a creep, even if he wasn't wanting to starve her to death.

Who's believing the Media now?

Or maybe you were there, watching and listening ?

And if you wouldn't trust your wife to take the life or death decision for you, that's fine, put it in your will that you want to remain a veggie ......

Blaming the poor husband...... People who start and people who believe this kind of rhetoric, know nothing about LIFE and LOVE.

To let somebody you love to die with dignity is the ultimate proof of love.
That is something I cannot say about the poor girl's relatives.

If people like you like speculations,here is one.......The family is doing it for media attention.......Or maybe is love?...Hmmmmm?

Anyway, dear Kevin, I am disgusted that small brains cannot comprehend that is only THE HUSBAND who is entitled to a DECISION......Everybody else can only have OPINIONS wich they SHOULD NOT force upon others.

Good bye


P.S.

I don't even want to start with all those doctor wannabes and their retarded miracles stories.......

Focking human beings, some should really just shut up......

 

[MAXIMUS_RO]

And now that I saw your last post,
THEY WERE STILL HUSBAND AND WIFE WHEN SHE LOST HER MENTAL FUNCTIONS.

Or maybe you can't understand the news.......

 

[Relsek]

And now that I saw your last post,
THEY WERE STILL HUSBAND AND WIFE WHEN SHE LOST HER MENTAL FUNCTIONS.

Or maybe you can't understand the news.......

Are you getting hostile or did you just forget your smileys?

You are right, they were husband and wife when she lost her functions, but not when he decided to have the feeding tube pulled.

 

[MAXIMUS_RO]

And now that I saw your last post,
THEY WERE STILL HUSBAND AND WIFE WHEN SHE LOST HER MENTAL FUNCTIONS.

Or maybe you can't understand the news.......

Are you getting hostile or did you just forget your smileys?  

You are right, they were husband and wife when she lost her functions, but not when he decided to have the feeding tube pulled.

Just to make it clear, the choice the husband made is about principles and promises.
I think any logical mind would come to the same conclusion.

The fact that he tried wathever medicine has to offer, waited 15 years and in the end refused money in order to give her up, is proof enough about his character.

To call him a murderer only because he started another relationship is retarded and disgusting.And if you think the same, than you can bet I have no smileys for you.

Based on your posts, I doubt that we have too many things in common, or that we see life the same way.

Maybe just that we both ride a Hayabusa?

 

[Relsek]

And now that I saw your last post,
THEY WERE STILL HUSBAND AND WIFE WHEN SHE LOST HER MENTAL FUNCTIONS.

Or maybe you can't understand the news.......

Are you getting hostile or did you just forget your smileys?  

You are right, they were husband and wife when she lost her functions, but not when he decided to have the feeding tube pulled.

Just to make it clear, the choice the husband made is about principles and promises.
I think any logical mind would come to the same conclusion.

The fact that he tried wathever medicine has to offer, waited 15 years and in the end refused money in order to give her up, is proof enough about his character.

To call him a murderer only because he started another relationship is retarded and disgusting.And if you think the same, than you can bet I have no smileys for you.

Based on your posts, I doubt that we have too many things in common, or that we see life the same way.

Maybe just that we both ride a Hayabusa?

I don't think I said murderer. I'm getting tired of going over this so I will quit soon, maybe, maybe not.

What is so hard to understand? It didn't take me 7 years of being away from my ex-wife and being married to my second wife to know that I no longer had the best interest of my ex in mind. There were times that she made life difficult for me and things would have been much easier for me if she were'nt around. Don't you understand? I wouldn't be the right person to make those types of decisions in here life.

Maybe I'm just not as much a man as you are. You must be, oh wait, are you, no, can't be, Jesus, is that you?