Ten Commandments.

ks-waterbug

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Ok, here goes a rant! Why as a society are we letting things like this happen without a fight? I believe this country was founded on the belief in God. Its on our money, was in our schools, talked about in almost every transcript scribed by our founding fathers. 81% of Americans believe in a God (according to a 2001 ARIS survey). Yet, we let 19% of the non-believing country run the show! I support Roy Moore and wish we had more people like him running this country......
:rant:
 
I think we're sliding into hell because of the melting pot theory. We feel the need to allow everyone the right to practice their religion here equally to how we practice our own. If we push it and lay claim to the right to display our Ten Commandments publically then how do we deny others from, say, sacrificing a virgin on the courthouse steps, or some kid bringing his goat skull to school for the prayer session?

It has simply gotten to the point that to avoid having to discriminate against other religions we must make sacrafices in our own beliefs.

I must say that I don't agree with how it's all going down, I'm just telling you why I think it's happening. Just wanted to clear that up. :)
 
I'm glad yall brought that up, I was getting really irritated just hearing that crap on the news. Im glad good ol boy (Roy) is fighting the system though, he's not going to win which is sad, but he's sticking to his guns. Im with you Ks
 
We need to use alittle common sense and not change anything. In God we trust has been around almost as long as our Declaration of Independance.......
Here's just of few of there thoughts.
The Bible is the chief moral cause of all that is good, and the best corrector of all that is evil, in human society; the best Book for regulating temporal concerns of men, and the only Book that can serve as an infallible guide to future felicity. (Noah Webster)

It is necessary for the welfare of the nation that men's lives be based on the principles of the Bible. No man, educated or uneducated, can afford to be ignorant of the Bible. (Theodore Roosevelt)


The Bible fits man for life and prepares him for death. (Daniel Webster)


The more profoundly we study this wonderful book [the Bible], and the more closely we observe its divine precepts, the better citizens we will become and the higher will be our destiny as a nation. (William McKinley)


The Bible is a book in comparison with which all othes are of minor importance, and which in all my perplexities and distresses has never failed to give me light and strength. (Robert E. Lee)


Hold fast to the Bible as the sheet anchor of your liberties, write its precepts on your hearts and practice them in your lives. (Ulysses S. Grant)


I am sorry for men who do not read the Bible every day. I wonder why they deprive themselves of the strength and pleasure. (Woodrow Wilson)


Government should uphold--and not undermine--those institutions which are custodians of the very values upon which civilization is founded: religion, education and, above all, family. (Ronald Reagan)

If men are so wicked WITH religion, what would they be WITHOUT it? (Ben Franklin)
 
Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend by the name of Common
Sense who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he
was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.

He will be remembered as having cultivated such valued lessons as knowing
when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm and that
life isn't always fair.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more
than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies
(adults, not kids, are in charge). His health began to rapidly deteriorate
when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place.

Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a
classmate, teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch, and
a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student only worsened his
condition. It declined even further when schools were required to get
parental consent to administer aspirin to a student but could not inform the
parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Finally, Common sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became
contraband, churches became businesses and criminals received better
treatment than their victims. Common Sense finally gave up the ghost after a
woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot, spilled a bit
in her lap, and was awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust, his
wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is
survived by two stepbrothers; My Rights and Ima Whiner.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
 
I do not agree with all the ANTI-Ten commandments stuff either. Nore do I think the Pledge of alliegance should be an issue in schools. Besides, "In God We trust" does not specify which God or whose God.

But the Bible is a book written by man. Re-written by powerful men to suit their needs. It's a good book, and there are certainly worse ways to live your life than by following the lessons in the book. My problem isn't with the Book, it's not with Christians, my problem are the evils done in this world in the name of God by organizations and Governments. The Narrow mindedness, and hatred the Bible breeds in a lot of folks regardless of the messages inside to the contrary.

I dunno, I have been pretty pissed off at some of the people around me here and there that call themselves Christians, they put a fish on the back of their SUVs, run you off the road and give you the finger, basically wearing their religion as a fashion accessory without having any real faith or belief. I see them all the time, Going to church every Sunday while being completely scummy, judgemental, materialistic, self rightious crapheads. As if going through the motions and putting on the appearance of faith is a free pass to be creeps the rest of the week. I get irritated at the "Christians" out there who feel going to Church gets you a free pass. The Belief that you must go to a Church and pay money to be a good Christian. All I see in most Churches today are folks working hard to out pose one another, and convince themselves that they are good people, hoping that they can somehow hustle God by showing up on Sundays and throwing a few dollars into a plate? No Substance, No real Faith. Christianity used as a tool, a device to control, a reason for war or new laws, to obtain social status, basically something to use or hide behind so that they do not have to take responsibility for themselves or their actions. OK I am getting off on a Rant...Sorry...

KS... I am not trying to take you to task on this except on the one comment that got me, 80% of America may call themselves Christians, but in the real world, most of that 80% are what I described above. Going through the motions, not a selfless act in their heads, missing the point if you will...

Don't get me wrong, I have a very deep belief in God and I think this is why I get all itchy when a topic like this comes up. Mostly I think organized Christianity in America is in large part empty of any real belief or faith. It is rife with organizations grasping and struggling for power, for the right to tell others how to think, how to believe, what to teach, without having the spiritual cohones' to turn their own eyes inward and see the sickened, power corrupt leaders behind them pushing the buttons. Groups acting out of fear and Hatred, not out of love for fellow man or a desire to do good.

I dunno, Hell I probably went to far with this...I am not wanting to offend any of my Busa Brothers and Sisters, I now you are out there and would help your fellow man...So don't get me wrong...10 Commandments doesn't include thall shall not speed, so I say slather it everywhere. Rules to really live your life by...That, and the 7 Deadly Sins....

KS, Seriously not throwing stones here....
 
I don't like discussing religion simply because of most of what Rev just said...hypocrits...

I come from a very religious family...Grandmother is an ordained minister! Aunts that pray for everything in life...Grandfather that's always asking me "when are you going to take those boys to church?"

I don't go to church...don't care to start going now, and don't like being told that I should be going or I'm going to hell...blah blah blah...why? Hypocrits...it's simple...very hard for me to sign on to what's being pushed, then stand by and hear those same peoples' critical views...that's just my experience, so I'm not trying to generalize here...

This is my philosophy in life...I have my beliefs, which I don't push on anyone, even in heated conversations about religion...why? Because I hate when it's pushed on me...I don't need to be "sold" on someone's beliefs, any more than they'd like to hear/subscribe to mine...

That all said, I could walk past that Ten Commandments monument for 20 years and never be offended by it. I carry money that says "In God We Trust". I was in school when we still said the Pledge of Allegiance. I hear the President saying "God Bless" at the end of his speeches...I might not subscribe to all things Christian, but I certainly don't try to ruin it for everyone else...

Only problem with that simple philosphy is that you'll have to brace for the guy(s) that want to display their Nazi flag, or burn crosses in courtyards because that's what they believe in...with the myriad of religion in the world today, we even have those that hate/try to kill Americans all in the name of a God...how will we feel when one of those individuals insists on putting monuments related to their beliefs?

My philosophy is/has always been live and let live...I still believe that...if Alabama decides to allow the monument to remain, so be it...but, if it's removed, it might curb an onslaught of "others" crawling out of the woodwork to display what they hold dear to their hearts...that's not always going to be a good thing...
 
E pluribus unum (out of many, one) was/is the national motto since the days of our founding father, not 'In God We Trust', which first started coming about around 1861.

Just a question for some of you, do you believe that people that are not christian or are not religious do not have strong ethics and moral values? Do you believe that anyone who is deeply religious must, by default, have strong ethics and moral values?

That question is rhetorical, BTW (i.e. I ask to provoke thought and reflection, not to receive a quick answer).
 

The 81% of religious people the waterbug gave I beleive isn't a solid number for arguments. Nothing against the waterbug, but do you really beleive that 81% of our population are DEVOUT believers? I think a vast majority of people say they believe in God but their actions don't support their claims. How many of the 81% go to church more than once a week??
How many do you think make almost every decision with God and the Bible in mind??
How many of them tells small lies everyday??
I mean if your soul is the MOST important thing you have, how could you not forget to keep God and the Bible in mind almost every minute of your life? Why?? Because a vast majority of the 81% dosn't completely believe.


Just something to think about.
 
Narc, you pretty effectively sum up my point for me with that one lil Rhetorical question...

VA, I think We will get along just fine...Religion is personal, should be kept that way.

Waterbug, Again, not bagging on you. I gathered from the post that you do take your faith and religion seriously, hope I didn't rub you the wrong way...
 
There are those who are quite seriously crazy about their goal of removing all reference to God or religion from government and public life.  They often refer to the separation of chruch and state arguement.

Yes, our country was founded on the principle that no single religion should be overly favored by government, so that in this nation there would be no national religion.  As there was in England, which contributed greatly to so many people fleeing there for here.  Naturally this nation's founders were a bit hesitant to leave the doors open for the government to have the power to dictate religion.

However, what the founders thought of as separate religions then, isn't quite how we see things today.  For them, Catholic, Luthern, Quaker, Anglican, Episcopal, etc. were all DIFFERENT religions.  As important a distinction to them as Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buhdist, Hindu are to us today.  This change in the public perception of what defines DIFFERENT in religion is the source much of the "separation of church and state" dissagreement today.

The founders of this nation were predominantly wealthy, white, protestant Christian, men.  There's no point in arguing that fact.  As such, they had certain views about how to interpret the universe that included (among other things) a belief in the Christian view of God.  Did they intend for this to be a theocratic nation, that is to say a nation ruled by clerics and preachers?  No, they clearly did not.  Did they invision this to be a predominantly Christian nation?  Yes, insofar as they saw the citizens they represented as Chirstian people of one kind or another.  

It then stands to reason that there should be references to God and the Christian view of God in that society.  And government, as it is set up, is a product of its society.  So there are references to God in government documents, architechture, monuments, etc.  Just as there are references or images of horses, George Washington, government buildings, etc.

But that doesn't mean that the laws of this land, as set up by the founding lawmakers, makes Christianity the only recognized and tolerated religion.  We are insured the right to freedom of religion, regardless of what religion that is.  Since the founding lawmakers didn't make any special allowances for the government to crack down on particular religions, all are permited and legally protected from governmental and societal persecution.  Period.  Don't like it?  Then get an ammendment to the Bill Of Rights passed.

As I started saying at the begining of this post.  Some people take this freedom from religious persecution ideal way too far.  Having the Ten Commandments up on governmental property is not an indication of a state religion.  It is an indication of the majority in office wanting to put up some rules from their religion for public display.  Neither the meaning of those words, nor the presence of them is overtly hostile to members of another religion.  Keep in mind that those commandments were given to a select audience (Moses and his followers) -- not the whole world. Having them written down in public in 21st Century America doesn't make them rules everyone must obey. They aren't laws to be enforced by government, people. They are a quote from a book.

Those who continue to blather on about how any reference to God or religion should be expressly banned from government and tax-funded organizations are out of their collective minds.  God (in many forms) is an accepted part of reality for the vast majority of the human race.  Deal with it.  This nation is a democracy where majority rules, within the confines of the Constitution.  As I see things, that means there can be references to God on public buildings and the like.  But that isn't limited to the Chirstian God.  Want a Buhda reference on your local statehouse?  Then lobby, get supporters, and get it done.  That is the beauty of how our laws are set up.  Get enough people to support something and you really can get your way.
 
The thing with the Ten Commandments really does piss me off ...Regardless of religion, TEN COMMANDMENTS are a good damn Idea... I mean regardless of belief it makes no sense to argue about these "Rules". I mean, they are mostly common sense....
 
The thing with the Ten Commandments really does piss me off ...Regardless of religion, TEN COMMANDMENTS are a good damn Idea...  I mean regardless of belief it makes no sense to argue about these "Rules". I mean, they are mostly common sense....
Revlis, I agree with you in principle, but in practice not each of the Ten Commandments are common sense to everyone.

The first four have to do with the proper way to worship God. The fifth cannot be an absolute, as there are bad parents out there.

The last five are pretty decent rules for having a functioning society. Ignore too many of them too much and your culture will collapse. So, they are common sense rules that I tend to agree with in principle.

You shall have no other gods besides Me.
You shall not make for yourself an idol
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
Honor your father and your mother
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shall not covet
 
I agree with everyone!  How's that for pleasing the masses?!  :D

No hard feelings to ks or anyone...point is that even if the 81% is a valid number, people are going to say it's not fair that this monument stays...it counteracts the entire "freedom of religion" motto we tout as Americans...it, in fact, must look more like "yeah, it's really freedom of religion/free speech for the 81%, but since that's majority, it's okay"

Not arguing over whether the monument stays or not; just trying to walk the fence ever so carefully and point out how that can lead to some pretty unsavory displays by smaller sects of society...

Revlis said it....we should all be free to believe in what we want and keep it personal...keep in in your homes and amongst your family; take it to your churches...stick it on your cars in license plates and stickers...tattoo your body with symbols of your beliefs...but, if you push to display it in public places, better make room for other monuments as well...is there an ordinance against sacrificial virgins on the steps of the courthouse?  BulletTrain, you crack me up!  :D
 
Guys/Gals, I appreciate all the different views on this subject. No, my feelings won't get hurt by your take on the matter and I find it very interesting that there can be so many opinions pertaining to the religous (or those who claim to be). It's for this very reason I feel so strongly about not re-inventing the wheel. In this case leaving things like "In God we trust" right where it belongs! In our heritage.......
 
Personally I'd like to see the 10 Commandments stay,

Legally, it has to go.
 
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shall not covet

Being a devout agnostic, I believe that people have a right to believe, as they will, worship as they wish, and live a full life.  I DO NOT believe in preaching to everyone, door to door faith, killing for (insert deity here), or taking any book's words as "law".

Along with Christian, Catholics, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Taoists, and the other organized faiths, I believe they hold a common thread of decency and rules for living that time has honed and wrought in blood and tears and therefore cannot be ignored.

Do not get me wrong, religion has a place and a purpose, I just think it has taken a wrong turn about 1800 years ago or so.

As to the commandments...  the quoted ones are worth noting.
 
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