Smart TRE..holy crap...review

[wickedsprint]

So I installed the smart TRE today from Ivans, the one that has a chip to keep the stock neutral map and a smoothe idle. It is alot smoother mid corner after compression braking and then resuming throttle, used to be akin to having a ton of driveline slack, but it is alot easier to make smoother mid corner power adjustments, less abruptness which was one of the reasons I wanted it. Now on to the meat and potatos, it pulls noticably harder in 1st and 2nd, like someone added another 200 CCs worth of torque, and the engine has a distinctly different growl in the lower rpm ranges when opened up. Hammering it in 1st gear brought wheelspin from a 20mph roll and second started spinning also whereas before it did not do it AS bad in 1st and virtually none in second. I am a pretty light rider though, about 155lbs ish. I can say it was worth the money. Now onto the bad news. Cruising at 30-40 ish requires a bit more finesse, throttle is touchier, but more predictable, although steady state cruising sees a very mild surge, like it does not feel as smoothe holding city crusing speeds any more, but just barely perceptible. I am at 6100 feet of elevation for the record in case we have any high altitude fence sitters.

 

[Johnnycheese]

so now go ride it withand then take it off and see what happens

 

[wickedsprint]

Why on earth would I want to do that?, I just rode it without, and then installed it and liked the response, I can however see how it might be slower in the quarter since it spins more..

 

[Johnnycheese]

Why on earth would I want to do that?, I just rode it without, and then installed it and liked the response, I can however see how it might be slower in the quarter since it spins more..

no, it is slow in the quater because you are too rich, and if any timing change it would be under 4K and I don't know to many people that ride under 4K ( but then there are those who do not know how to twist a throttle) it is amazing what happens when you add a little fuel, gee I guess that is why there are PC3's.On a Busa snake oil is easy to sell. take the test or are you scared?



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[BentValve]

Proper air/fuel mixtures to get the absolute most out of a combustion engine under load cannot be eyeballed...and its certainly not just a one size fits all type thing either.

You want just enough fuel for max power and not too little so you wont damage your engine. Get a PC3 and have it Dynotuned if you want a real gain in drivability. Add a full exhaust later on for a little more power.

 

[wickedsprint]

Why on earth would I want to do that?, I just rode it without, and then installed it and liked the response, I can however see how it might be slower in the quarter since it spins more..

no, it is slow in the quater because you are too rich, and if any timing change it would be under 4K and I don't know to many people that ride under 4K ( but then there are those who do not know how to twist a throttle) it is amazing what happens when you add a little fuel, gee I guess that is why there are PC3's.On a Busa snake oil is easy to sell. take the test or are you scared?

Around town riding is pretty much always under 4k. It is not that I am scared, it is the fact that those little plugs can be a ##### and that my less than perfectly calibrated seat of the pants dyno says it is worth it, it is not that I don't value your opinion, but the motor genuinely feels like it pulls harder in the lower revs so I am inclined not to undo everything just to have a redundant verification, don't worry, all the smart people will still ignore me and buy your new remaps to get rid of the limiter

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[NightCrawler]

Why on earth would I want to do that?, I just rode it without, and then installed it and liked the response, I can however see how it might be slower in the quarter since it spins more..

no, it is slow in the quater because you are too rich, and if any timing change it would be under 4K and I don't know to many people that ride under 4K ( but then there are those who do not know how to twist a throttle) it is amazing what happens when you add a little fuel, gee I guess that is why there are PC3's.On a Busa snake oil is easy to sell. take the test or are you scared?

Around town riding is pretty much always under 4k. It is not that I am scared, it is the fact that those little plugs can be a ##### and that my less than perfectly calibrated seat of the pants dyno says it is worth it, it is not that I don't value your opinion, but the motor genuinely feels like it pulls harder in the lower revs so I am inclined not to undo everything just to have a redundant verification, don't worry, all the smart people will still ignore me and buy your new remaps to get rid of the limiter

Okay, now I feel dumb, and look it too  

.

Does the TRE {NJ ... where 'ya at} make our bikes run rich?

 

[wickedsprint]

I have no idea, it was my understanding all it does is supply the 5th gear ignition map for all of the gears which has a bit more timing advance at part throttle settings. I don't see how it would be too rich unless the 5th gear map is also too rich stock *shrugs*, maybe someone can enlighten us, all I know is that it pulls harder from lower rpm at part throttle settings.



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[shenoyp]

I have no idea, it was my understanding all it does is supply the 5th gear ignition map for all of the gears which has a bit more timing advance at part throttle settings. I don't see how it would be too rich unless the 5th gear map is also too rich stock *shrugs*, maybe someone can enlighten us, all I know is that it pulls harder from lower rpm at part throttle settings.

Take a print of the MAP before installing the TRE.... and then take another print once you have put in the TRE. Compare the MAPS and you will know how the TRE is changing the air/fuel mixture....!!

 

[wickedsprint]

In reading past posts I seem to recall you discussing it alot, do you or do you not have one? I also notice JC has what seems to be an agenda and slams everyone who mentions it..oh well, I guess we should all take apart our clutches and send him our sensor for the same amount of money to keep the softer ignition for the lower gears. I still maintain it feels stronger in rollons from lower rpms.

 

[Rycardo]

Does G-pack a better option?

 

[JINKSTER]

In reading past posts I seem to recall you discussing it alot, do you or do you not have one? I also notice JC has what seems to be an agenda and slams everyone who mentions it..oh well, I guess we should all take apart our clutches and send him our sensor for the same amount of money to keep the softer ignition for the lower gears. I still maintain it feels stronger in rollons from lower rpms.

+1 as I have Ivans Smart TRE as well and was very pleased with both improved idle quality and part throttle response in the lower rev ranges...and I too got slammed by Johnny Cheese for stateing so publically...with him heckling me about not knowking how to twist a throttle and alls it affects is under 4K rpms...and who ever races at anything below 4K rpms...blah, blah, blah....well...I do very little "Racing" at under 4K rpms but I do a whole lotta RIDING at under 4K rpms...where the low end torque makes the busa such a pleasure to own and ride...matter of fact?...I can almost garentee I was under 4K rpms in this pic...

But according to "The Chessman" Ivans Smart TRE ain't worth spit and neither is the folks who like the results of such..cause why?...we ain't running around right at redline in every freaking gear?...at WOFT?...all the freaking time?..and there's No Value/Advantage whatsoever to smoother, more controllable, part throttle response?..yeah...right.

What I think JC needs to understand is the fact that...

Every now and then life throws ya a curve.

Then...maybe he'll understand the benefit folks feel by adding a smart tre to an otherwise bone stocker.

L8R, Bill.

 

[wickedsprint]

Thanks for the backup, I still ask him, if the 5th gear map is good enough for 5th gear, why isn't it good enough for for the other 6?

 

[justintime2]

Thanks for the backup, I still ask him, if the 5th gear map is good enough for 5th gear, why isn't it good enough for for the other 6?

Because you do not have any ram air effect in the lower gears. The 5th gear map takes into account that your airbox is pressurized at increasing levels as you go faster. More air needs more fuel to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio. If you add the 5th gear map to all others you have the increased fuel without the increase in air and therefore you are rich. Your pipes will turn black inside too, another indication you are rich. Your ram air adds around 10hp at full speed, where does this extra HP come from if not added air/fuel? With a TRE you are adding the fuel to the lower gears without the air.

 

[JINKSTER]

Thanks for the backup, I still ask him, if the 5th gear map is good enough for 5th gear, why isn't it good enough for for the other 6?

Because you do not have any ram air effect in the lower gears. The 5th gear map takes into account that your airbox is pressurized at increasing levels as you go faster. More air needs more fuel to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio. If you add the 5th gear map to all others you have the increased fuel without the increase in air and therefore you are rich. Your pipes will turn black inside too, another indication you are rich. Your ram air adds around 10hp at full speed, where does this extra HP come from if not added air/fuel? With a TRE you are adding the fuel to the lower gears without the air.

Which is exactly why Ivan went from being the inventor/creator of the first original TRE (which DOES use the 5th gear map) too...Ivans Smart TRE..which uses the leaner NEUTRAL MAP in the first few gears...where the bike would be at lower speeds, lacking the ram air affect.

 

[justintime2]

Thanks for the backup, I still ask him, if the 5th gear map is good enough for 5th gear, why isn't it good enough for for the other 6?

Because you do not have any ram air effect in the lower gears. The 5th gear map takes into account that your airbox is pressurized at increasing levels as you go faster. More air needs more fuel to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio. If you add the 5th gear map to all others you have the increased fuel without the increase in air and therefore you are rich. Your pipes will turn black inside too, another indication you are rich. Your ram air adds around 10hp at full speed, where does this extra HP come from if not added air/fuel? With a TRE you are adding the fuel to the lower gears without the air.

Which is exactly why Ivan went from being the inventor/creator of the first original TRE (which DOES use the 5th gear map) too...Ivans Smart TRE..which uses the leaner NEUTRAL MAP in the first few gears...where the bike would be at lower speeds, lacking the ram air affect.

My understanding is his TRE maintains the neutral map for neutral. The other gears use the selected gear for all the mapping.

 

[macbusa]

Whats a TRE?

 

[JINKSTER]

Thanks for the backup, I still ask him, if the 5th gear map is good enough for 5th gear, why isn't it good enough for for the other 6?

Because you do not have any ram air effect in the lower gears. The 5th gear map takes into account that your airbox is pressurized at increasing levels as you go faster. More air needs more fuel to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio. If you add the 5th gear map to all others you have the increased fuel without the increase in air and therefore you are rich. Your pipes will turn black inside too, another indication you are rich. Your ram air adds around 10hp at full speed, where does this extra HP come from if not added air/fuel? With a TRE you are adding the fuel to the lower gears without the air.

Which is exactly why Ivan went from being the inventor/creator of the first original TRE (which DOES use the 5th gear map) too...Ivans Smart TRE..which uses the leaner NEUTRAL MAP in the first few gears...where the bike would be at lower speeds, lacking the ram air affect.

My understanding is his TRE maintains the neutral map for neutral. The other gears use the selected gear for all the mapping.

You understand correctly..but you're failing to understand that Ivan now has 2 very different TRE's....his "original tre" which does exactly what's being said here by the naysayers and he has his new and improved "Smart TRE"...which does exactly what I previously explained...uses the neutral fuel map in the lower gears instead of the 5th gear fuel map his original tre used...i.e.....the Smart TRE is a different animal.

 

[wickedsprint]

Thanks for the backup, I still ask him, if the 5th gear map is good enough for 5th gear, why isn't it good enough for for the other 6?

Because you do not have any ram air effect in the lower gears. The 5th gear map takes into account that your airbox is pressurized at increasing levels as you go faster. More air needs more fuel to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio. If you add the 5th gear map to all others you have the increased fuel without the increase in air and therefore you are rich. Your pipes will turn black inside too, another indication you are rich. Your ram air adds around 10hp at full speed, where does this extra HP come from if not added air/fuel? With a TRE you are adding the fuel to the lower gears without the air.

I have a serious question then, are you telling me that since people are tuning them ona dyno without the benefit of a wind tunnel, but still tuning for good power with fairly static air, I assume they are knowingly making them lean once in ram effect, color me skeptical.

 

[gsteve]

ive wondered the same thing...is there a allowance added when you dyno tune for ramair?