Question for pdbusa or any other cops

[BUSAFETT]

Today there are quite a few hi-perf bikes out there, many of which are capable of speeds in excess of 100MPH. I was just wondering how today's police forces deal with folks who CONTINUALLY wreak havoc with their cycles.

I know in parts of the South and Midwest, cops will drive cars like Camaros and even Vettes to keep up with people- Are there any cops out there who ride Busa's or equivalents while on duty, to keep up with the kids on the rockets? Just one of those things I think about on occasion..

BUSAFETT

 

[Kweave]

Most police Depts. have a limited chase police so its really moot. Here in Charlotte we have 2 helicopters so if they are up we will call them. There are usually enough units available that you can keep them in sight until they wreck or jump and run. In these parts we dont have the long straights where you can run for 2 hours.
I guess to answer your question The riders ability is the biggest key. I have chased and caught all types of bikes, but I have pushed the riders to their limits. The ones that got away or that I dropped off I knew that I was not gonna be able to keep up with him.

 

[johnstein]

i am not a cop , but let me say somthin from experience ! here on long island they use the crown vic , not the fastest car in the world , but its a stable platform probably capable of doin 130s maybe 140 but , just like the busa , it doesnt feel like you are goin that fast .

radios are realy fast , and there is force in numbers , they have you beat already !

then lets talk about how they get you ! if you are doin a solid 170 and keep on it all they can do is radio ahead and hope to get in your face , but if you are like 95% of the people who ride bikes most of the time your cruisin just above the speed limit 70 or 80 mph , still a good ticket , but you will blast off into the 100mph ++ range and then back off the throttle cause of traffic , or lookin to blend back in cause you know what you just did was not only realy fun , but also against the law when leo pulls a car over its lights and sirens all the way cause they will get right in your face .
i have been pulled over several times on the busa , and most of the times have been at night and i had no idea i was bein tailed by leo till he was on the side of me and i made eyecontact with him or basicaly he was in front of me on the brakes hard then the lights came on , so i would say they will use the stealth aproach and intimadation to get you to pull over , i swear that i was doin 80 and when leo blew by me at 100 plus slammed on the brakes in front of me and then turned on the lights i had so many things goin through my mind that running wasnt one of them ! he was realy cool and gave me a warning . i said if i had saw him i wouldve just slowed and pulled over . he smiled and said he had his headlights off behind me for the past four miles , whoops !

placing a police officer in a camaro is a good statement to the public about confiscating property for drugs and other charges but to try to catch sombody by matching the speed they are doing is only doubling the problem and endangering more lives

 

[TKTM8KR]

BUSAFETT,

I'm a deputy here in florida and we use mustange on the inter state (I95) and helicopters but we not going to chase just over speed. We have sport bikes run daily from it has to be crime such as rape, murder, kidnapping and such. not sure about your state.  hope this helps

 

[mrninja9]

i can tell you this. here in illinois the officer has to make a determination if he is putting more lives at risk that it is worth. usually they will try to radio ahead but you can still get away

 

[PDBusa]

Where I work I pretty much know the locals and what kind of bike they ride. For someone who continually wreaks havoc, as you are asking, sooner or later they will run out of luck. Either they will get a knock on the door after we stop at thier house to give them a "prize" after they jet away from us (I'll arrive at a leisurely pace because I already know who it is) OR worse yet, we'll be stopping by to notify the next of kin. Sooner or later that flying sportbike is going to be parked at a 7-11 or somewhere hanging out. That's when I do squid recon..  

There is a group of sportbikers out here that get a bit carried away at times. No problem with that, I've talked to them before and got them to do the stunting in a large parking lot. The problems started when they took it to the street and one died due to lack of judgement. To compound things, the rest felt compelled to "pay respect" by doing the same squidly thing that killed the young rider in the same area when the family was grieving and right there. WTF? And 5-0 is the one who doesn't get it? At any rate, we know who it was and it was taken care of...on our terms.

Hey, I ride the fastest production motorcycle in the world. I'm not about to write someone else paper for something I do (ie a bit of excessive speed on highway) that would make me a hypocrite. Most of the sportbikers out here know better than being squidly on the streets. Most of the LEO know better than to pursue. We have radios, and trained eyes to get the info needed for the future. For just a traffic violation it isn't worth the stress of endangering lives unnecessarily. Especially mine. 100+mph can kill me too, even in a cage.



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[Professor]

Today there are quite a few hi-perf bikes out there, many of which are capable of speeds in excess of 100MPH.  I was just wondering how today's police forces deal with folks who CONTINUALLY wreak havoc with their cycles.

I know in parts of the South and Midwest, cops will drive cars like Camaros and even Vettes to keep up with people-  Are there any cops out there who ride Busa's or equivalents while on duty, to keep up with the kids on the rockets?  Just one of those things I think about on occasion..

BUSAFETT

Oklahoma now has a Busa seeing limited action. They are still in the process of refining the equipment for it. They are even considering a second to run as a pair. Pursuits are not even a consideration as most departments do not allow it on a motor. It is not worth the risk. Here is a with some pictures. Prior to my Busa, I had considerable time on a Road King. I even worked patrol on a couple of parades on my personal RK. I never got the opportunity to work traffic on a motor. With my experience on both, I can guarantee you which one I’d rather work off of. It does not have a thing to do with top speed either.

One other good thing about the Busa is intimidation. I compare it with the laser in my service weapon. I was considerably faster with target acquisition using the open sights. However the laser served well in more than one felony traffic stop. Word is already out on the street about the Busa. If it stops even one rider from trying to run it is worth it. Very many of the pursuits involving motorcycle result in the motorcyclist crashing with serious injuries or even death.

We recently lost an local LEO in pursuit of a stolen motorcycle. A true shame, the kid riding the bike (and his passenger) is up on murder charges.

The radio (and sometimes available helicopter) often makes it a waiting game for when the cyclist crashes or decides to ditch the bike and try it on foot. Hopefully the LEO doesn’t get overcome by the adrenalin and do something equally as stupid as what his suspect is doing.

 

[Oldroller]

PDBusa you have my respect for being honest and not being a hypocrite! I'm a big fan of common sense.

 

[MN72Busa]

PD...

I’m sure NY law may vary some from MN state law, but have a few question for you. If a felony is not the reason for pursuit and you go knocking on the door of Mr. Squid a few hours later and try to write him a coupon....According to NY State Law and not just opinion, or your interpretations of the state law...Are you saying that tag will hold up in court? Also, not to press your discretion or anything, however wouldn’t it be a little in the grey area to enter upon private property to try and question a suspect (I will call him this at this point) or shall I say interrogate (I know you know the legal difference) and try to obtain probable cause for an arrest?

Also, since he (The suspect) is legally free to leave during questioning since he is not under arrest, couldn't he file a complaint against you with your state POST board (or possibly even harsher - will leave that alone)- for well shall I say questionable techniques?

Now this brings me to my last point. I’m not sure if your aware of this or not, but in MN, Hennepin County District Court Judge has found the camera units that tag motorists for advancing through intersections on Red unconstitutional...as the camera takes a picture of the plate and presumes guilt of the owner. In the USA you are innocent until proven guilty, and obviously the camera doesn't verify that the driver of the vehicle is also the owner. Thus, if you enter upon the property of a motorcyclist who was wearing a helmet during the above said incident, don’t you feel this could lead to a problem with actually arresting, or ticketing the appropriate law / ordnance violator? Reasonable suspicion is obviously within reason in this case, but probable cause I’m not quite sure of.

Again I’m attempting to make my question as simplistic as possible, and respect what you do for the state of NY. And I’m not trying to undermine your tactics, I’m simply asking on a purely legal basis.

 

[BUSAFETT]

Wow, looks like I sparked quite a discussion! And for the record, I wasn't asking for the sake of finding loopholes w/the law.. I was just wondering how today's law enforcement was able to work with such hi-po equipment these days.

And it's cool to hear that Oklahoma is using Busa's! Talk about job satisfaction!!!

BUSAFETT

 

[MN72Busa]

PD I sent you a PM

Busafett - I tired to word my line of questioning in a way that wouldnt empower or encourage loop-hole seekers. If I did, I will delete my post for obvious reasons.

 

[STUNNAH]

Air patrol is the most effective tool to use in this situation if you have it available...If not then LEO has to utilize the radio and ground personnel...

As stated before pursuits are generally reserved for the most serious felony offenders...On occassion and officer will engage in a pursuit based on a violation of traffic law but someone superior that is monitoring the radio traffic should determine if the pursuit should continue and in most cases the pursuit is ordered terminated...

I learned along time ago if you can't shoot them when you catch them then you should not pursue...

 

[STUNNAH]

Valium...Your post brings up valid points...If I did not see you, I will not swear that I did...

 

[BUSAFETT]

I think your posts are just fine, Valium...

Didn't know that one of the side effects of Valium was legal paranoia

BUSAFETT

 

[MN72Busa]

I think your posts are just fine, Valium...

Didn't know that one of the side effects of Valium was legal paranoia

BUSAFETT

lol...

Sometimes it can be very difficult to have a legal discussion without equipping the bad-guys with more knowledge than they need in a public forum. Lets face it...more times than not, it feels like the guilty are protceted, while the innocent are questioned.

Also, Police work is tough enough, and if everyone knew their complete legal rights, I think most Officers would resign in frustration due to our problematic court system.

 

[BUSAFETT]

Agreed- I think in alot of cases the "eye for an eye" needs to be reinstated. Don't think it would help in the example of high-speed chases, but it sure would lighten the load of our officers.. Steal and lose a hand- Rape and lose something else..

BUSAFETT

 

[PDBusa]

Valium,
You %$$%*&*^$%$#$.


LOL just kidding!

I agree on knowing who the operator is absolutely necessary to write a summons. I also agree that writing summonses from those cameras at intersections is unfair, and possibly unconstitutional.

I wouldn't write a summons for an unknown operator. Besides it's dayum tough seeing a tag number at speed! That's why I do the recon..(most just think I'm getting donuts)

I would need to obtain some pretty good  info. from the interview to write. Usually we can beat a guy to his home and wait for him to pull up and stop. Most will run straight home and hide the bike in the garage.We will simply walk over to him as he is taking his helmet off and say hello. Covert operations apply here.

We are absolutely legitimate in being on private property for an investigation. As far as a "stop and question" reasonable suspicion is all that is needed for an interview as you stated. We don't "interrogate" on the street.

The subject in question does have certain rights which are dictated by the constitution and relevant case law pertinant to same. He has a right to walk away and it ends there... assuming we have no further reason to detain.

Tactics questionable? I don't think so. Sooner or later he who runs will pay. Either in summonses, or worse. I'd rather get a civie complaint than clean up the bloody body of a young child.

As an aside;
Had a caller complain about a motorist driving last night. Gave us a reason to "stop and question" to ascertain possible DWI. That caller actually gave me a nice collar for possession of a controlled substance. I guess if you deal heroin, you should probably not leave 46 decks in bundles lying around the passenger compartment in plain view...
There's a tip for the bad guys!!!

 

[MN72Busa]

PD....

Was that caller an Anonymous caller, and what was used to determine the credability of the caller's.....lol, I will stop

Keep up the good work, I respect your honesty, and appreciate your time in responding so elequently conservative to my question(s).

It would be fun to watch you in court

 

[TKTM8KR]

Valium,
You %$$%*&*^$%$#$.


LOL just kidding!

I agree on knowing who the operator is absolutely necessary to write a summons. I also agree that writing summonses from those cameras at intersections is unfair, and possibly unconstitutional.

I wouldn't write a summons for an unknown operator. Besides it's dayum tough seeing a tag number at speed! That's why I do the recon..(most just think I'm getting donuts)

I would need to obtain some pretty good  info. from the interview to write. Usually we can beat a guy to his home and wait for him to pull up and stop. Most will run straight home and hide the bike in the garage.We will simply walk over to him as he is taking his helmet off and say hello. Covert operations apply here.

We are absolutely legitimate in being on private property for an investigation. As far as a "stop and question" reasonable suspicion is all that is needed for an interview as you stated. We don't "interrogate" on the street.

The subject in question does have certain rights which are dictated by the constitution and relevant case law pertinant to same. He has a right to walk away and it ends there... assuming we have no further reason to detain.

Tactics questionable? I don't think so. Sooner or later he who runs will pay. Either in summonses, or worse. I'd rather get a civie complaint than clean up the bloody body of a young child.

As an aside;
Had a caller complain about a motorist driving last night. Gave us a reason to "stop and question" to ascertain possible DWI. That caller actually gave me a nice collar for possession of a controlled substance. I guess if you deal heroin, you should probably not leave 46 decks in bundles lying around the passenger compartment in plain view...
There's a tip for the bad guys!!!

From one cop to another, good bust. Get that dirt bag and that poison off the streets.

 

[PDBusa]

It would be fun to watch you in court  

Yeah, I'm the kind of cop that Def. Attny's don't like on Cross Examinations. Always one thought ahead and smiling!



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