One Foot Off The Farm!

fallenarch

fallenarch

THE SLOW RIDER
Registered
I have vacation days I'm going to have to give back so I called in sick ands headed to Fredericksburg, Va today to look at the KTM 1290 GT and to visit the best BMW dealer around, Mortons. Wasn't able to get by Redline Motorsports (Yorktown, Va) but they have gone full on Italian (Ducati, MV & Aprillia). Trip is about 3 hours each way but that's the closest KTM dealer.

So, the KTM 1290 GT is pretty impressive. I thought this bike would be huge (based on photos and YouTube videos) but it was a lot smaller than the Busa. So small that it was a bit snug actually, not sure it's a place I can move around when riding fast. Also, the bars feel like they are in your chest! I guess the Busa is a stretch but part of the reason we get along so splendidly is I have a long torso and arms. Seat height is about an inch or so higher than the Busa but it was ok.

This is a truly modern bike! Cool lights with LEDs mounted in the huge side pods that come on with lean to maintain a view of the road in a lean. Cool and smarter than the motorized lights on the BMW that are going to cost $1,000 to replace when they go bad. Single sided swingarm - check. Angular mody panels - check. On the body panels they are a little "applied" looking in real life, but still its an impressive looking bike. It's got semi-active suspenders, cruise control, ride modes, TPMS, air temp, ride by wire, cornering TC/ABS, LED lights, heated grips, quick shifter, MSR (engine braking control), Water tight Saddle Bags that are very sporty-cool - all boxes checked. It even has self canceling turn signals! The shield is adjustable but it is sort of cheap, seems like an oversight given the quality.

I don't know. I was looking for a replacement for my Bandit in 2009 when the salesman said, come in the back, I got something to show you. There in the garage, freshly assembled was a silver 09 Busa. After about 2-3 minutes the salesman said "what do you think?" I said let's write it up and I never looked back. It was like the bike was designed for me. I like the KTM but it's not love at first sight like I expected. I'm pretty concerned about the cramped cockpit, and the bars shoved into my chest. I know I'll get used to that but with the Busa it was perfect from day one.

I also went over to Morton's BMW. The new 1600 bagger is definitely sexy. I could live with any of the 1600's or the 1200's. The BMW's all feel great, spacious, big, road ready. This bike is very different from the Busa, the KTM would be a replacement I'm afraid as they are similar in their attack.

Duke 01.jpg
Duke 02.jpg
Duke 03.jpg
Duke 04.jpg

Bagger.jpg
 
Ktm is cool just looks like a dirt bike on serious steroids. But KTM is a great brand my Mxc 300 has taken years and years of abuse and give me no issues.

What’s the bmw want to be goldwing cost.
 
That is a really beautiful area to ride especially Williamsburg, I have fond memories from when I was stationed at Yorktown.
 
I really like everything about the KTM, minus 1 thing. Looks. I know I am def in the minority here, but the new angular "enduros!" Make me want to vomit. I just cannot get over that look at all. In aviation, that look is called an Experimental (home made). Again, very impressive numbers, just not for me.
Pretty much the same goes for the bigger Beamers. I love what they can do, but do not like the look. To me, it has to perform, AND look the part. Yea, I know, most like that (cheap) new look.
Troy






Hang on...here it comes........
 
Getn off said:
I really like everything about the KTM, minus 1 thing. Looks

I'm not a big fan of the "Transformers" look either, second, at least for me (Ocala dealer area) is the crappy attitude of the KTM dealer. I went in to test ride a Super Duke saying I was interested but leery of the twin vs the Aprilia V4 and they know me as a well qualified buyer from buying the Busa a month earlier but they jerked me around for a half an hour trying to have me sign a buyers order before they would push the thing out the door.
Click to expand...
 
Getn off said:
I really like everything about the KTM, minus 1 thing. Looks. I know I am def in the minority here, but the new angular "enduros!" Make me want to vomit. I just cannot get over that look at all. In aviation, that look is called an Experimental (home made).

Hang on...here it comes........
Click to expand...

Well you have a right to your own opinion but I think aesthetics are evolved by top technology. The move from smooth aerodynamic aesthetics to more angular expressions follow the perceived state of the art. All of this is mostly fashion, and I do wonder if these extreme bike plastics are going to have the staying power of a good clean design like the KZ900? The Hayabusa on the other hand, is like those angular designs today in that it challenged the aesthetic of the day. No one followed that look so it remains polarizing, you either like it or you don't.

If I may jack this thread for a moment: How come a site about the Busa thinks Hayabusa is a misspelled word? Lol!

F-117.jpg
 
Test rode a Ktm 1290SA a few years ago. The only thing I really came away from that ride with was the brakes were on another level, the rest left me wanting. Tested a BMW R1200GS Rallye recently as well. Sort of the same deal. Both great bikes in their own right. Neither would be able to replace my Busa though. Unless Suzuki actually comes out with a new Busa, I'm planning to keep mine with a few more key mods. A custom seat and a quick shifter are on my short list.
 
So here is a comparison of the stats on both bikes. I think the Busa has the best motor hands down (haven't experienced the KTM, but I am partial to the characteristics of a 4). The 1340cc busa delivers 175 hp and 110 lb-ft torque from it's inline 4. The KTM gets 173 hp and 106 lb-ft from its 1301 cc V-twim (Hp/torque figures are all over the place, depends on the website. My dyno tuned Busa did 178 hp and 106 lb-ft before mods). A big V-twin is going to have a lot of engine braking, which I am not too fond of (KTM has an MSR option to control engine braking). Busa has torque, top end punch, basically the perfect engine except for weight and width. Of course a big V-twin is going to sound glorious.

On brakes there is no comparison. The KTM is rocking Brembo M50's along with some really amazing ABS technology. Busa, not so much. I don't know when Suzuki is going to get the point that brakes are not an afterthought - even the new Liter bike got destroyed on braking.

Interesting the bikes have the same wheelbase, I'm guessing to control the power/torque. Surprisingly the KTM has the slower steering at 4.2" trail and 24.9 rake angle (the Busa is 24.2/3.8"). I'm guessing this is because of the KTM's 1" higher seat height, which is probably contributing to a much higher CG. Wheels are the same with 3.5"x17 front and 6" x 17 rear (120/190). Interesting the KTM has a 50 profile tire on the front and a 55 on the rear. I might try this on the Busa.

Where the KTM destroys the Busa is weight. I did a double take when I saw the dry weight of the Duke - 456 lbs! Wet with panners it's in the 506 area, that's crazy. The busa is a piggy at 586 wet. Mine is probably about 45-50 lbs lighter though (exhaust, Ohlins, Brembo), which makes it 506 vs 540 or so. When I get my wheels that would get even closer. So, the weight thing is largely in people's heads. The KTM feels lighter just sitting on it, but I don't buy 20-30 lbs being a deal breaker on a 500 lb bike. Personally, I think the Busa was designed to be super stable, and that more than it's actual weight makes it feel heavy. This may be mass centralization. The Busa has those big twin cannon exhausts and the heavy steel subframe swung out away from the CG, all that slows the roll rate down.

Of course the electronics are no comparison. I know some here don't like gizmos, but the reality is that not every rider is a purist at heart. When you are touring you ride long hours, in all kinds of weather, and your focus is not always 100% on the bike and the road - you can use some help.

To me this points the way to the new Busa. I think the Busa has the best motor in motorcycling because it can do or be anything. Yes it's wide but I never rubbed it on the ground cornering unless I leaned over 100 degrees (lol!). If I'm honest I hope they leave the turbos to someone who knows what they are doing like Frank at Powerhouse! Big thing is weight, they need to lose 60-100 lbs. Add a little Hp, 220 or so and 120 lb-ft will work but keep the engines character. Next is brakes, crazy strong brakes. Then electronics, even if it's just the liter bike stuff. I think it has to be more nimble. Finally, there needs to be a naked version and a styling change. If it looks like all of the artists renderings it will be DOA. Similar to the liter bike, it just looks old. What is amazing is that these are pretty minor changes, and 20 years on the Busa is still an amazing machine.

Just some thoughts.
 
I don't plan to sell my Busa. we have been through a lot together and I love that bike. But technology is changing and there is new stuff to try. I was hoping Suzuki would step up this year but no luck. Not sure I want to wait a year.
 
fallenarch said:
Well you have a right to your own opinion but I think aesthetics are evolved by top technology. The move from smooth aerodynamic aesthetics to more angular expressions follow the perceived state of the art. All of this is mostly fashion, and I do wonder if these extreme bike plastics are going to have the staying power of a good clean design like the KZ900? The Hayabusa on the other hand, is like those angular designs today in that it challenged the aesthetic of the day. No one followed that look so it remains polarizing, you either like it or you don't.

If I may jack this thread for a moment: How come a site about the Busa thinks Hayabusa is a misspelled word? Lol!

View attachment 1577733
Click to expand...


Obviously u know the curves of the Busa was designed in a wind tunnel to extract every single mph. The F-117 (Stealth fighter) was designed angular so radar will not absorb as easily. Has nothing to do with manuverability or speed at all. It is actually a slow fighter, relatively speaking. The F-22 and F-35s are not angular, and are more technologically advanced. Hell, might as well make cars and bikes look like airplanes like they did in the 50s! Um, maybe they are!
They sell the hell out of those styles, so it obviously is what most are looking for. To each his own I guess!
Troy
 
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