No start wires hot and melted

[roadster72]

Hi, I am new to the forum. Just picked up a new to me 2005 Hayabusa.

Giving the full timeline in case it helps with the issue...

When I got it the previous owner said the starter and starter clutch were bad so I replaced them. Oddly it had a short vs long starter and cover plate in there.

It came with a small battery and when I hooked it up and tried to turn the bike over it started smoking on the battery terminals and the battery got very hot.

So I figured maybe undersized battery (which is probably is) and hooked up to a large car battery.

Turns over, no fire.

I find that the fuel pump wire is broken and get that hooked up holding the plugs together with electrical tape for now until I can get a new connector.

Now, it wants to fire (hear fuel pump etc), can hear it kind of firing.

Next I crank and start blipping the throttle. Now it fires. So rev it up to a few k rpms and its running nice for a few seconds.

I look down and the battery cable extensions burned clean off the battery. Now I will mention the battery cables extensions were from a harbor freight leftover so while the thickness of the bike cables they are probably garbage inside.

Before I go back in to troubleshoot anyone see this before? My initial thought was maybe bad grounds (?). Is there a block or frame ground maybe to check? I will also try to look over the harness for bare wires etc that could be grounding out positive wires. I guess its possible it just got hot from too much cranking. The turn over but no start without throttle is the part that is also suspect.

I have done a lot with cars before including building a few from the ground up but this is my first bike. I am wondering if there is a common problem that would cause this?

I am going to mess with it again tomorrow.

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

 

[Bumblebee]

Welcome and sorry to hear of your woes....

If it were me, I'd be going through the entire wiring harness and replacing all the wires that are bad before I try starting it again....you will definitely need OEM gauge wires for the battery....I'd replace both positive and negative wires just to be sure....if they got that hot, they might have burned off their insulation and could cause them to touch somewhere......don't hold the starter button too long as it will burn out the starter...

Check to make sure the fuses are the right ones and it might be a good idea to replace them all as well-they are inexpensive....

As for the starting issue, did the bike sit for a long time? If so an entire fuel system refurb is in order....injectors, pump filters, check the tank for rust, etc....

It is always a good thing to change all the other fluids (brake/clutch/coolant) to makes sure they are fresh and cause no problems....

Fork oil is on that list too but it can wait for a bit...

A manual is a must for any work you are doing as it will guide you.

 

[roadster72]

Hi, thanks for the tips. Good to know on the starter. I am used to the big v8 ones that are pretty resilient.

It did sit for a long time. The tank was almost empty but will check the fuel lines and tank for scale. What's throwing me off it is if I cranked with the throttle partially open it fired right up and reved to like 6k easily. Should the bike run with no battery once started? It shut off after a few seconds when the battery cable extension melted.

 

[Bumblebee]

Hi, thanks for the tips. Good to know on the starter. I am used to the big v8 ones that are pretty resilient.

It did sit for a long time. The tank was almost empty but will check the fuel lines and tank for scale. What's throwing me off it is if I cranked with the throttle partially open it fired right up and reved to like 6k easily. Should the bike run with no battery once started? It shut off after a few seconds when the battery cable extension melted.

These bikes like a strong battery and don't run without one....all the cables and wires need to be 100%.

if it started with throttle, it's fuel injected and generally don't like throttle when started...it sounds like the fuel system needs maintenance and cleaning....there is an enrichener on the left bar which is used for cold starts on gen 1s...

f it sat for a long time with a bit of fuel in the tank, I'd be pulling the pump for sure...

 

[roadster72]

I am going to redo the battery leads with some 4awg I have leftover from another project. Going to look for a harness diagram. I assume there is probably a starter relay buried somewhere with 1/4' or so terminals.

Sorry, can you clarify the enrichener on the left bar comment? Coming from the car world so not familiar with that.

Will drain and flush the fuel system to be saft. There was basically no gas in there before.

thanks.

 

[Bumblebee]

I am going to redo the battery leads with some 4awg I have leftover from another project. Going to look for a harness diagram. I assume there is probably a starter relay buried somewhere with 1/4' or so terminals.

Sorry, can you clarify the enrichener on the left bar comment? Coming from the car world so not familiar with that.

Will drain and flush the fuel system to be saft. There was basically no gas in there before.

thanks.

The enrichener is a quasi choke if you will for cold starts...you should see it on the left bar, it slides down when on...

These things are sensitive to old fuel and prone to gumming up...

I am on a gen 2 and the relay/solenoid is in the tail, not sure where it is on the gen 1...

@Berlin Germany is the holder of the manuals on the site....he has a link...

 

[roadster72]

I found a 99 up manual and am skimming it.

Coming from cars I have never seen a choke type cable on efi. Only older carb cars. So that's where I will go next after fixing the battery cable. I might have just been over cranking. Will see if two separate issues.

Thanks again

 

[Kiwi Rider]

I found a 99 up manual and am skimming it.

Coming from cars I have never seen a choke type cable on efi. Only older carb cars. So that's where I will go next after fixing the battery cable. I might have just been over cranking. Will see if two separate issues.

Thanks again

It’s not actually a ‘choke’ or an ‘enrichener’…. All it does is open the flaps on the throttle body (using a cable from the little lever on the left side switch block) to allow a little more air in, basically just a fast idle device using extra air volume to increase engine revs.
The ‘enrichment’ is done by the ECU reading the air temp and coolant temp via the sensors. The ECU then alters the injection duty cycle (opening time) to enrich the air fuel ratio to suit the conditions.
As said, you need to have a new battery must be correct size, and all cables must be in good condition, correct gauge and good terminals.
Ground cables and terminals are often overlooked so be sure they are good to go too.
The starter motor may also need looking at due to excessive cranking recently.
The starter relay is located on the left side mid section of the tail fairing… under the fairing, you’ll need to remove it to gain access.
Good luck!

 

[mabupa]

Hi, I am new to the forum. Just picked up a new to me 2005 Hayabusa.

Giving the full timeline in case it helps with the issue...

When I got it the previous owner said the starter and starter clutch were bad so I replaced them. Oddly it had a short vs long starter and cover plate in there.

It came with a small battery and when I hooked it up and tried to turn the bike over it started smoking on the battery terminals and the battery got very hot.

So I figured maybe undersized battery (which is probably is) and hooked up to a large car battery.

Turns over, no fire.

I find that the fuel pump wire is broken and get that hooked up holding the plugs together with electrical tape for now until I can get a new connector.

Now, it wants to fire (hear fuel pump etc), can hear it kind of firing.

Next I crank and start blipping the throttle. Now it fires. So rev it up to a few k rpms and its running nice for a few seconds.

I look down and the battery cable extensions burned clean off the battery. Now I will mention the battery cables extensions were from a harbor freight leftover so while the thickness of the bike cables they are probably garbage inside.

Before I go back in to troubleshoot anyone see this before? My initial thought was maybe bad grounds (?). Is there a block or frame ground maybe to check? I will also try to look over the harness for bare wires etc that could be grounding out positive wires. I guess its possible it just got hot from too much cranking. The turn over but no start without throttle is the part that is also suspect.

I have done a lot with cars before including building a few from the ground up but this is my first bike. I am wondering if there is a common problem that would cause this?

I am going to mess with it again tomorrow.

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

welcome to the forum and sorry to see that your first post is about a problem with your new toy. As already stated above, bike needs a good working battery/wiring/connectors to be happy. these bikes have some weird glitches when battery is not in good shape or rectifier/stator starts acting up. Like @bumblee mentioned, these bikes fuel systems can get clogged so, even though she revs up fine to 6k rpm’s sitting as you stated, it doesn’t mean she’ll rev that high once under load, if fuel system is not in tip top shape. @Kiwi Rider wrenches on bikes for a living a lot of other members have years of experience wrenching on their rides, so hopefully the solution to your problems is within this forum.
On a side note, there are endless parts for these bikes on the used market, so an eBay search would yield many wires, harnesses, solenoids and everything in between. I’ve seen oem battery cables on eBay before, so worth checking.

 

[roadster72]

It’s not actually a ‘choke’ or an ‘enrichener’…. All it does is open the flaps on the throttle body (using a cable from the little lever on the left side switch block) to allow a little more air in, basically just a fast idle device using extra air volume to increase engine revs.
The ‘enrichment’ is done by the ECU reading the air temp and coolant temp via the sensors. The ECU then alters the injection duty cycle (opening time) to enrich the air fuel ratio to suit the conditions.
As said, you need to have a new battery must be correct size, and all cables must be in good condition, correct gauge and good terminals.
Ground cables and terminals are often overlooked so be sure they are good to go too.
The starter motor may also need looking at due to excessive cranking recently.
The starter relay is located on the left side mid section of the tail fairing… under the fairing, you’ll need to remove it to gain access.
Good luck!

Thanks for the details on the fast idle. Am going to mess with that too.

I have the fairings off anyway so thanks for the tip on the location. That will make it easier to find. Lotsa wires crammed in a small area on these!

 

[roadster72]

welcome to the forum and sorry to see that your first post is about a problem with your new toy. As already stated above, bike needs a good working battery/wiring/connectors to be happy. these bikes have some weird glitches when battery is not in good shape or rectifier/stator starts acting up. Like @bumblee mentioned, these bikes fuel systems can get clogged so, even though she revs up fine to 6k rpm’s sitting as you stated, it doesn’t mean she’ll rev that high once under load, if fuel system is not in tip top shape. @Kiwi Rider wrenches on bikes for a living a lot of other members have years of experience wrenching on their rides, so hopefully the solution to your problems is within this forum.
On a side note, there are endless parts for these bikes on the used market, so an eBay search would yield many wires, harnesses, solenoids and everything in between. I’ve seen oem battery cables on eBay before, so worth checking.

Thanks, I knew I would be getting into some learning. Was just not totally figuring on more than the starter/clutch but have hauled many a project home. I luckily have a battery crimper, just need to figure out what ends to use. Will measure them when I dig the starter relay out.

 

[Bumblebee]

It’s not actually a ‘choke’ or an ‘enrichener’…. All it does is open the flaps on the throttle body (using a cable from the little lever on the left side switch block) to allow a little more air in, basically just a fast idle device using extra air volume to increase engine revs.
The ‘enrichment’ is done by the ECU reading the air temp and coolant temp via the sensors. The ECU then alters the injection duty cycle (opening time) to enrich the air fuel ratio to suit the conditions.
As said, you need to have a new battery must be correct size, and all cables must be in good condition, correct gauge and good terminals.
Ground cables and terminals are often overlooked so be sure they are good to go too.
The starter motor may also need looking at due to excessive cranking recently.
The starter relay is located on the left side mid section of the tail fairing… under the fairing, you’ll need to remove it to gain access.
Good luck!

Thank you for the correction, for people such as myself there wasn't a real way to explain this other than calling it an enrichener due to the fact it's only used when the engine is cold to start...

 

[Bumblebee]

Thanks, I knew I would be getting into some learning. Was just not totally figuring on more than the starter/clutch but have hauled many a project home. I luckily have a battery crimper, just need to figure out what ends to use. Will measure them when I dig the starter relay out.

Hopefully you get it sorted...

 

[Hayabusa Wannabe]

Thank you for the correction, for people such as myself there wasn't a real way to explain this other than calling it an enrichener due to the fact it's only used when the engine is cold to start...

What is odd is that some of the OEM manuals including engine master Honda call it a choke. They should know better.

Sorry, can you clarify the enrichener on the left bar comment? Coming from the car world so not familiar with that.

Riders use various levels of warming up these engines before taking off, from not warming at all and taking it slow, to using the fast idle per the manual.

In the early 2000's Honda replaced some of its fast idle levers with a water controlled mechanism like a thermostat that shuts once the temp comes up. One more encrusted thing to maintain and clean...I have no idea if the gen 2 busa does anything other than alter the fuel based on temp so I am unclear if any actual mechanism or logic was added when Suzuki stopped using the lever.

 

[Bumblebee]

What is odd is that some of the OEM manuals including engine master Honda call it a choke. They should know better.



Riders use various levels of warming up these engines before taking off, from not warming at all and taking it slow, to using the fast idle per the manual.

In the early 2000's Honda replaced some of its fast idle levers with a water controlled mechanism like a thermostat that shuts once the temp comes up. One more encrusted thing to maintain and clean...I have no idea if the gen 2 busa does anything other than alter the fuel based on temp so I am unclear if any actual mechanism or logic was added when Suzuki stopped using the lever.

My brother's BMW has a lever like this and it's called an enrichener in his manual..I questioned him as to why his FI bike had a choke...he corrected me too....

I think the gen 2 does this through the ECU much like a car does...

A guy I knew had an early 2000's Yamaha FZ1 and it had the system you are referring to....

 

[Hayabusa Wannabe]

I think the gen 2 does this through the ECU much like a car does...

Do you notice a higher idle when cold? I just have not paid attention.

 

[Bumblebee]

Do you notice a higher idle when cold? I just have not paid attention.

I haven't either....but I can smell a bit of raw fuel when it starts...and it smells richer for a little bit...

 

[Berlin Germany]

I found a 99 up manual and am skimming it.

here is the link to the real suzuki manual

Hayabusa not charging | Busa problems

Hey guys trying to see if yall can help me out again. My bike isnt charging. It was holding 12.6 before now itll drop about .1v every 2 seconds or so even holding it at or above 4.5k. Would the stator or rectifier need to be replaced? Or both. Also i had to replace the harness a while back and...

www.hayabusa.org

and just skimming is not a good idea - the manual needs to be read very carefully.

 

[sixpack577]

Make sure it's not overcharging the battery, which would be the regulator/rectifier, which is not an uncommon fail point on Busas or motorcycles in general.