No Police...No Problem...

[BulletTrain]

BulletTrain
In the scenario that you laid out I would rather catch him myself and deal with him. Payback is a -----.

Fair enough.

So, given the same situation and no cops, the guy jumps into a car and speeds off after rapin' yer daughter and takes off. You don't know if you'll ever be able to find him or not if he gets away. You gonna sit there and say you'll get 'im another day or you gonna run his ass down and dispense this payback you speak of? You gonna let him just get away with it as long as he sees you comin' every time and just speeds off?

I think not. Now, think about the victims that are not able to dispense their own payback and they rely on us to catch the maggots and bring 'em to justice. If you were a cop, could you watch the molestor speed off, then stand there and look into the eyes of the raped child's Mother and Father, or better yet the child's eyes and say, "Ahhhh, don't worry, there's always another day to catch him." I sure as hell couldn't. Not and sleep that night...

I'm not tryin' to be an ass here, bro, just sayin' that there are times when chases even at high speeds are jsutified even though they are dangerous as hell. I can assure you that the only people who would want to catch a molestor as much as I'd want to catch him would be the family of the victim. Even though I'm not related, I just can't sit and watch him speed off into the sunset. Nope, I'm gonna be hawkin' his ass down down and hopin' like hell that he fights with me when I catch him.

Meant to say earlier, no enemies here, man. The great thing about this site is that we can have discussions like this and it not turn into an all out bash fest like it would on some other sites. It's all good here.

[Mikey D]

Perhaps if they were paid more, much more, these institutions could attract a better gene pool to their ranks (ok, that was a little low perhaps). Same goes for teachers unfortunately. Way underpaid and way too many that should be doing something else.

I'm cutting my own throat by saying this (I'm a teacher) but more $ is probably not the answer.

Lawyers get paid mega bucks but I have yet to meet one worthy of raising the level of the human gene pool.

[BulletTrain]

Perhaps if they were paid more, much more, these institutions could attract a better gene pool to their ranks (ok, that was a little low perhaps). Same goes for teachers unfortunately. Way underpaid and way too many that should be doing something else.

I'm cutting my own throat by saying this (I'm a teacher) but more $ is probably not the answer.

Lawyers get paid mega bucks but I have yet to meet one worthy of raising the level of the human gene pool.

Hmmm, I say we try the money thing. We couldn't do any worse than the lawyers have!

[Ride_or_Fish]

BulletTrain
In the scenario that you laid out I would rather catch him myself and deal with him. Payback is a -----.

Fair enough.

So, given the same situation and no cops, the guy jumps into a car and speeds off after rapin' yer daughter and takes off. You don't know if you'll ever be able to find him or not if he gets away. You gonna sit there and say you'll get 'im another day or you gonna run his ass down and dispense this payback you speak of? You gonna let him just get away with it as long as he sees you comin' every time and just speeds off?

I think not. Now, think about the victims that are not able to dispense their own payback and they rely on us to catch the maggots and bring 'em to justice. If you were a cop, could you watch the molestor speed off, then stand there and look into the eyes of the raped child's Mother and Father, or better yet the child's eyes and say, "Ahhhh, don't worry, there's always another day to catch him." I sure as hell couldn't. Not and sleep that night...

I'm not tryin' to be an ass here, bro,  just sayin' that there are times when chases even at high speeds are jsutified even though they are dangerous as hell. I can assure you that the only people who would want to catch a molestor as much as I'd want to catch him would be the family of the victim. Even though I'm not related, I just can't sit and watch him speed off into the sunset. Nope, I'm gonna be hawkin' his ass down down and hopin' like hell that he fights with me when I catch him.

Meant to say earlier, no enemies here, man. The great thing about this site is that we can have discussions like this and it not turn into an all out bash fest like it would on some other sites. It's all good here.

quote=BulletTrain,Mar. 24 2004,00:30]

BulletTrain
I'm gonna be hawkin' his ass down down and hopin' like hell that he fights with me when I catch him.

You hold him down and I'll kick his nads up through his teeth. It's amazing how one's attitude changes after he/she or a close loved one has been the victim. I work for my local pd (not as a leo) and have nothing but respect for the job to be done on the streets everyday.

As a citizen, all I can say is "thank God for The Second Amendment", and "The Second Amendment makes all others possible".  

Look at the socialist experiments called England, and Australia. When the government starts confiscating guns you end up with sharp rise in violent crimes including home invasions and armed robberies. The citizens then become subjects.

I'm a bit off the subject but I'm off the soapbox now. Enough ranting.  

[STUNNAH]

BulletTrain
In the scenario that you laid out I would rather catch him myself and deal with him. Payback is a -----.
I sure dont have the answer on alot of these situations.

I'm sure that most people would feel the same as you hooken203...The important part of your statement is that you would rather catch him...Really???If you did, what would you do to or with him???Would you pray with him???Would you scold him???Would you drop him dead where he stands???Would you call the police to come and pick him up???Yeah, Payback is a mother, do most of the members of society have the gut to fulfill the "PAYBACK"???It's good to have a position because if you stand for nothing, you'll eventually fall for anything...Sometimes it's necessary to have an answer...

[STUNNAH]

Perhaps if they were paid more, much more, these institutions could attract a better gene pool to their ranks (ok, that was a little low perhaps). Same goes for teachers unfortunately. Way underpaid and way too many that should be doing something else.

I'm cutting my own throat by saying this (I'm a teacher) but more $ is probably not the answer.

Studies have shown that money is not relative to a persons desire to police...People have different reason's for becoming a police officer and some of them are:

Fulfillment of a childhood dream...

Military service that turns into policing in the cilivian life...

Studied Criminal Justice in college and had no other profession to enter...

Forced into law enforcement as an adult for unknown reasons...

These are just a few reasons that I could come up with now but there are many other reasons...

Most realize the first day on the job that your not going to get rich, but still maintain a high level of professionalism and respect toward the public that they serve...

[hooken203]

Viglante Armed citizens to me levels the playing field.
I wish I could get this kind of responce when I ask a question about my bike

[STUNNAH]

Viglante Armed citizens to me levels the playing field.
I wish I could get this kind of responce when I ask a question about my bike

Shat I wish I could respond to questions you might have about your bike...

[BigDawg_03Busa]

It's getting pretty hot in here man, but fact of the matter is you truely don't know what you may do until faced with a particular situation.

You may say "I'd chase him/her down and serve my own justice" or "I wouldn't want the criminal pursued for the safety of civilians".

However, in that situation you may be so overtaken by remorse or sorrow that your body becomes limp and you become unresponsive. Or you may feel such empathy for the individual that your heart won't allow you to do them harm.

Likewise, if someone strikes close to your heart you may act out of a fit of rage (we've all seen this--most of which are in prison or 6' under) and seek self revenge. When it comes to revenge on my enemy I refer to Romans 12:18, but I'd have to say if I walk in on someone doing my family harm the Holy Spirit is going to have to render me unconscious to prevent retaliation. My words on the matter. Be blessed.

[EAKbusa]

Wow is all I can say. Can't we all just get along (smile)? This is how politics makes people enemies. This has been a very interesting discussion at least.

BUt like everyone else I just can't stop adding comments (he he).

Here is my take. If someone rapes someone there is already one victim, right? So if the cops take off on a high speed chase, that outcome cannot be changed - still one victim. But what can change is if there is an unfortunate outcome like a colision with pedestrians or other motorists or the LEO's themselves we now have more victims - and COMPLETELY INNOCENT victims.

So lets recap.

Rape individual = one victim

High speed chase that ends in a t-boned minivan = 1 rape victim, entire family dead in the minivan, 1 LEO that has to live with himself for the rest of his life knowing that they could have caught the perp a week later pumping gas in the next state over.

Chase if you must - but please THINK ABOUT IT LONG AND HARD!

Now vote for me (he he).

[ridercoach]

I'm all for the chase, no question about it. Give the perp another day to kill, rape, or some other type of damage is not a answer. Enough about that.

About the cops that pull people over and they act like A**holes.

I served in the USAF as a LE for 4 years. When I got out I chose another career, because unlike the Military style of respect from other enlisted, civilians have absolutely no respect for police officers. Imagine going to work everyday and as your getting your job done there is always some one there telling you your an A**hole, How your going to starve them out because then cant afford to pay for food now, How your wrong and have no morals, How they pay your paycheck, that they know someone high up and your going to get fired, and of course all the blatant lies that you would receive and trust me there are many more. (think of all the excuses you have given cops at one point) Don't you think at the end of your work day you would have a chip on your shoulder? Don't you think you just may be a little pissed off (because you know what's coming) when you pull over your next violator? So the next time a LEO pulls you over, don't jump to a pissing contest with them, just do as they ask and be polite. They are only doing there jobs just like you do yours. Granted there are some bad apples, but there is a higher majority of LE's out there that just want to do there job well and go home to there families, without getting killed or shot. So next time you see a cop, instead of spitting on his career choice, thank him. Thank him for protecting you the law abiding citizen, thank him for the days he thought he would never go home to his 2 yr old little girl, thank him for protecting your children who may one day cry out for his help, thank him for doing a job that people don't respect, thank him for protecing your rights as an American Citizen, you can even thank him for protecting the rights of the criminals.

I have no more to say.

[Hood Ornament]

I suspect we all have our misgivings about police, whether it's something that happened to us or a friend...it's normal to harbor some resentment in some way...

I'd say! I am one and I hate some of 'em!

That's normal ain't it? I mean after all, I hate some of the people I used to have to work with.

[bigpig13]

Good topic! As far as the pursuit thing goes, I know in NJ there are a lot of laws and policy's that dictate when you can and can't pursue. In most cases there has been a serious crime committed to result in a vehicle pursuit. Then even when in pursuit we as LEO have to make decisions whether or not it is safe to pursue. Obviously rush hour or through shopping centers is a lot different then pursuing at 0400. Then on top of the if the person you are pursuing crashes and gets hurt or injured, it never is said that the Police did the right thing. It is always that the suspect was a great person a great member of society who was trying to do the right thing. BS.
Making big decisions is a part of everyday life. Are they always going to be the right decisions? No. Especially in the eyes of the citizens who have never walked in our foot steps. It ends up like everything else in always gets critiqued a day or two later.
There are many things that LEO do that are rarely seen by the public also. In the Department I work in we go into the worst part of town on foot at 0300 when everyone is sleeping. We are out there trying to make the world a better place.
There are bad apples in the bunch. They are in every proffesion. Try and be supportive of Police, Fire, EMS, Military and all proffesions for that matter, you never know when you will need somebody.
Be Safe!!!

[04busa]

I think the real question is "what would the crime rate be if society could not own guns"?

I think the poilce do an outstanding job overall.  Will keep bad thoughts I feel about a few to myself.



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[STUNNAH]

I think the real question is "what would the crime rate be if society could not own guns"?

I think the poilce do an outstanding job overall.  Will keep bad thoughts I feel about a few to myself.

I've seen a lot of situations where a victim was killed by a weapon (gun) that they owned...

I haven't seen the benefit of the concealed carry law either...

[orangebusa??]

i say im 100 percent behind the police i sure would not be intrested in that sort of work even if at times i might make them think i dont care much for them. my only real crime is my busa and although ive burned a few already if some thing would have happened during the time of the chase i would be crushed and forever take responsibility. Its there job to control and enforse the laws set forth for us to live by and its our responsibility to safly and promptly pull over and alow them to do there job. If something terrible happens during a chase it is not the cops fault when everyone knows what there suppose to do.  There are some real asses for cops but they would be asses no matter what they were you are who you are no matter what you choose to do to make a living there maybe a few that let the badge go to there head but so what if someone ripps off your busa thell be the first peaple you call

[STUNNAH]

I think the real question is "what would the crime rate be if society could not own guns"?

I think the poilce do an outstanding job overall.  Will keep bad thoughts I feel about a few to myself.

I've seen a lot of situations where a victim was killed by a weapon (gun) that they owned...

I haven't seen the benefit of the concealed carry law either...  

I may have read your post incorrectly the first time...I don't think that it matters much whether our society as a whole has the ability to own guns...I believe that the crime rate would be about the same...The reason that I say this is because it's not the good, honest members of society that actually pay for and possess a gun that are committing the crimes, it's the low life career criminals that possess illegal and stolen guns that are the problem...Therefore, I believe that these career criminals would still be able to arm themselves and the crime would continue...

[race24x]

Bullet what if that High speed chase leads to a crash where someones family is killed or someones father on a motorcycle is killed by a car being chased can you look into the eyes of my daughter and tell her you are sorry for her never having to see her daddy again. I agree it is a dangerous world out there and sometimes there is a need for some amount of pursuit. But to chase a guy for speeding especially with todays technology and aircraft etc. He has to stop if you keep pushing him something will break if you chase to 100 lets say the guy only has to run at 110 to think he is getting away If you chase him flat out and you are in a caprice lets say 145 maybe top end the guy is going to run till it wont go any faster.

[ridercoach]

Bullet what if that High speed chase leads to a crash where someones family is killed or someones father on a motorcycle is killed by a car being chased can you look into the eyes of my daughter and tell her you are sorry for her never having to see her daddy again. I agree it is a dangerous world out there and sometimes there is a need for some amount of pursuit. But to chase a guy for speeding especially with todays technology and aircraft etc. He has to stop if you keep pushing him something will break if you chase to 100 lets say the guy only has to run at 110 to think he is getting away If you chase him flat out and you are in a caprice lets say 145 maybe top end the guy is going to run till it wont go any faster.

I have seen perps take off the min. you hit him with your lights. You do not even need to engage in a pursuit for the perp to take off in a fury. The eye in the sky has watched them increase speed and maneuver wildly without ever being chased. So if this is the case, maybe we should never pull anyone over again. Just let people do what ever they want. As far as looking someone's daughter in the eye and telling them the bad news, guess what, that is part of the job. You think its easy to go home knowing that your actions either took a life, let it be innocent or guilty. I will take that position of telling your daughter that my actions took your life, and I will stand by my decision. Knowing that I took a criminal off the street, preventing him from harming any other individual. When an LEO engages into a pursuit, very little is known about the individual, we just know that they are running from us and there is a reason for it. He might have just killed his wife and heading to the local school to kill his daughter, He could be heading to your house to do harm to you and your family for something you said to him at work and yes, he could just have an suspended lic.. But we do not know, maybe if we can get everyone to wear an electronic tag that we can scan from above then we will know if its a minor problem so we don't engage. Yeah sounds ridiculous don't it, so it will never happen. I think bigpig said it pretty good, we will not engage if the situation is not suitable like a shopping center, school zone, or high density residential community. So when it comes down to the chase, who is responsible? Must be the Police, they provoked the criminal huh. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard from people. The police made him run, the police made him hit high speeds, the police made him run that red light and kill that family. Its always the police, never the fact that the perp is breaking the law and is responsible for his own actions. Like I said before, all you have to do is hit them with your lights and off they go. You can stop and just listen to the radio and wait for the crash. I would much rather have a chance to hit the PIT before they get to that point. Just my .02. Sorry if I sound hot, but this is one of the many reasons I am no longer a LEO.

[race24x]

Oh no dont get me wrong I am not saying it is a perfect system. But there needs to be some rules in place it is never never the cops fault a person that runs is breaking the law period but in some cases the harder you push someone the harder they are going to go at it. If you are standing toe to toe with someone you can difuse a situation by walking away or saying excuse me. But if you stand there and say whatever in someones face you arent do anything but escelating the situation. There is no 100% correct way. better training for officers better technology to stop criminals Better rules of engagement about chases. How much is to far etc. If someone hurt my daughter I would kill all involved (all) then myself before letting one of them get away without paying for there actions.