New battery, couldn't believe the difference..
- Thread starter captain
- Start date
Wow, big difference. Thank you Sir.
thanks for the pics CAP !! 
After this weekend, I need one. Where did you get yours Capt?
Anything different between OEM, specs on the Yuasa YTX12-BS-D battery show CCA 180.
Shorai site says the replacement is the LFX18A1-BS12 (CCA 270) = $180.
However, many sites shows the same as Capt'n using the LFX14A1-BS12 (CCA 210) = $140.
How's the new battery working Capt? I don't want to order the bigger one if it's not needed...
Shorai site says the replacement is the LFX18A1-BS12 (CCA 270) = $180.
However, many sites shows the same as Capt'n using the LFX14A1-BS12 (CCA 210) = $140.
How's the new battery working Capt? I don't want to order the bigger one if it's not needed...
SoCal Blur
Registered
The 16 cell may fit but you would have to check the measurements first.
And the rest of the story.........
The bottom of the Shorai battery busted out and I opened a ticket with the customer support group. The responses are below, the original ticket was simply 3 pictures, my invoice and it was sent in as instructed on the Shorai website. The whole thing was pretty simple at first, Motorcycle Superstore really stepped up as you can see but Shorai told me I had the wrong battery, when I looked at the Motorcycle Superstore website last week they had a different model listed from what was recommended which just proved my point... When I ordered the battery from MCSS in 2013 that was the battery listed.... Shorai with all the extra time in support decided to go look at their website to see what was listed, unless there is a connect behind the scenes they have no idea what MCSS had online, if they are linked then the current site is wrong.. In the end I hate policies being thrown at me, so now the Customer Service Rep has looked at logs to a website that I never went to and is very inflexible while at the same time Motorcycle Superstore is willing to work with me for a potential oversight on their part....
I am more interested in the response from Shorai at this point on how they deal with customers, if they will treat me as a consumer like this in a public space how do they treat my friends and fellow riders who don't have such a platform to use like this site? Read up and let me know your thoughts......
Cap
____________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________
Doug,
We are sorry to hear of your issues with your Shorai battery. However, this type of physical damage occurs under only very specific circumstances:
PHYSICAL CASE DAMAGE (LEAKING, BOWED, OR BALLOONED BATTERY CASE): Physical battery case damage is often the result of having too small of a battery for your vehicle. It can also be caused by a deeply discharged battery being “jumped†or roll-started and then allowing the motorcycle to charge the battery the rest of the way. It can be caused from too much voltage, or too much current. The starter current should be 25-50% of the battery’s CCA rating. Physical case damage may also be indicative of a faulty regulator or very strong charging system output of over 15.2V at the terminals. When a non-balancing charger is used on a very deeply discharged battery (or a battery that has been internally shorted due to cell damage) you may risk cell/case expansion if too much voltage goes into one or two cells.
Per our 3rd year warranty conditions, the cost to replace would be 25% off of the MSRP. However, we can extend the 2 year, 50% discount instead. The LFX we recommend for the Hayabusa is the LFX19A4-BS12. The cost to replace would e $99.98 and would include a new, 3 year prorated warranty.
Please return the battery to us and if you'd like the replacement, please call us with your credit card. Your case reference number is #6xxx.
Shorai, Inc.
16020 Caputo Dr., Suite 100
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
Case/RMA #6749
Troubleshooting & Preventing A Battery Failure
SHORAI LFX Batteries Are Powersports STARTER BATTERIES ONLY. Please use the guide below to rule out any issues on your end which may cause a premature battery failure. IF YOU HAVE A 6V battery, please halve all voltage readings stated as voltages mentioned are for 12V.
1. WRONG BATTERY FOR YOUR VEHICLE: Always check the SHORAI Product Finder, www.shoraipower.com/display Do not rely on other websites for this information as they may be incorrect.
1. If you do NOT see your application on our product finder, please call customer service (ph. 888-477-4848)
2. Our batteries are designed for powersports starting applications only. We do not recommend, nor warranty, usage for cars, boats, electric scooters/bicycles, cameras, and other complete loss systems.
3. We do not recommend, nor warranty, our batteries if used in custom motorcycles with large displacement V-twin engines (over 110Ci).
4. Ideally, the starter current amperage load should be between 25% and 50% of the battery’s CCA rating.
2. MINIMUM VOLTAGE: LFXâ„¢ batteries should be recharged whenever voltage drops to 13.1V or sooner. Repeat crank attempts, non-use, and accessories can cause your battery to fall below 12.86V (resting voltage). This is the most common reason for returns.
3. KEY-OFF DRAW: The Shorai battery has a very slow self-discharge rate and when fully charged will hold at or above 13.1V for approximately 1 year. But, if installed in a vehicle, the electrical system draw can discharge the battery over time. Standard draw is about 1-3 mAh on modern motorcycles. Damage due to overdischarge is not a manufacturing defect and is not covered under warranty. Repeat discharges below 12.86V, or a long duration discharge, can cause cell imbalance and possibly damage the cells.
How to check your key-off draw:
o Switch your Digital Multimeter to DC mA, 20m/mA is sufficient unless you have a considerable key-off draw—if so switch it to 200m/mA.
o Disconnect the negative terminal from the battery to your motorcycle. Do not touch the positive terminal connection. Keep it as is, covered and protected.
o Place the Negative (black) Multimeter probe on the negative post of the battery and the Positive (red) probe on the ground wire (and together with any others that were connected to it (accessories like a Power Commander or alarm). You may hold the ground/negative wires together with your hand when checking, it will not shock you.
o The digital readout should read no more than 4 to 5 mA. If the reading is higher than 4-5 mA, the vehicle will need more frequent charging. Most motorcycles are less than 1 mA.
o Accessories such as GPS, computers, and grip warmers which are left on, and even stock anti-theft deterrents will discharge your battery extremely fast. Please ascertain all non-anti-theft, or non-essential device accessories can be turned off and note that you will need to charge your battery more often while using even the factory anti-theft device.
4. VEHICLE CHARGING SYSTEM OUTPUT: If your vehicle’s charging system is not working properly the battery will be discharged while in operation. Using a Multimeter, check that the charging system output voltage is at least 13.1V at idle, 13.6V-14.4V at ~2000rpm, and no more than 15.2V at the terminals.
How to check your vehicle’s charging system output:
• Connect a multimeter to the battery while the bike is running. At Idle, the voltage should read no less than 13.1V. Turn on any accessories you may use normally and determine again if it is above 13.1V
• Check the voltage when the bike is at ~2000rpm. It should read 13.6V-14.4V while at this rpm to be an ideal output for our Shorai batteries.
• It is typical to see the voltage rise/fall when the rpms do so, respectively.
• You should also perform a voltage output check with your normal accessory usage to determine if your battery can remain charged while using said accessories.
5. ACCESSORIES: Lights, Radios, Phone Chargers, etc. should not remain on when the vehicle is not running. Accessories are designed to run off of the charging system of the vehicle, not the reserve of the battery. If you have several aftermarket, or high-draw OEM accessories on the vehicle that creates more of a draw than your charging system can restore to the battery, your battery will begin to drain. Once this happens, your vehicle may not start or run correctly. If you continue to attempt to crank the motor or use the vehicle to charge a deeply discharged battery, you can cause physical cell and possibly battery case damage.
6. CHARGING: The Shorai charger charges, balances, and performs cell diagnostics. Although we recommend the Shorai Charge and Store Battery Management System to keep your battery at its healthiest, you can use a 2 amp or less 3-stage compatible Charger that does not have a desulfation mode as long as your battery has not fallen below 12.86V. Charging a deeply discharged LFX battery on a non-balancing charger can result in cell imbalances and possible case damage if too much voltage goes into one cell. Please remove your battery from the charger as soon as it is fully charged as most chargers may store/float your Shorai battery at too low of a voltage (below 13.1V). NEVER use a charger if it has an automatic recovery, or "desulfation mode", which cannot be turned off as this will damage the battery.
7. WE DO NOT RECOMMEND MOST NON-SHORAI BATTERY “TENDERS", TRICKLE CHARGERS FOR STORAGE/MAINTAINING: The LFX battery should ideally be stored at 13.3V. Most common retail battery chargers do not maintain a high enough voltage and will cause the battery to fall below 13.1V for longer periods. If you are not going to use your vehicle for long periods, don’t have a Shorai charger, or won’t be able to start your bike occasionally to keep it charged, you can instead charge the battery to full (~14.4V) then disconnect the negative terminal lead from battery to bike. This will prevent any key-off draw from draining your battery during non-use. IF YOUR BATTERY FALLS BELOW 12.86V, you should only use a balance charger, such as the Shorai BMS01, to ensure even charging across the cells (3.6V per cell, 4S configuration). If not, you can cause cell imbalances, and possibly physical damage to the cells and case. A nonbalancing charger may charge (or overcharge) only one or two cells completely which then “tricks†the charger into determining that the battery is fully charged.
8. PHYSICAL CASE DAMAGE (LEAKING, BOWED, OR BALLOONED BATTERY CASE): Physical battery case damage is often the result of having too small of a battery for your vehicle. It can also be caused by a deeply discharged battery being “jumped†or roll-started and then allowing the motorcycle to charge the battery the rest of the way. It can be caused from too much voltage, or too much current. The starter current should be 25-50% of the battery’s CCA rating. Physical case damage may also be indicative of a faulty regulator or very strong charging system output of over 15.2V at the terminals. When a non-balancing charger is used on a very deeply discharged battery (or a battery that has been internally shorted due to cell damage) you may risk cell/case expansion if too much voltage goes into one or two cells.
9. CORROSION: Although not very common, we sometimes receive batteries which show signs of corrosion, either at the charging/diagnostics port covered by the gray cap on the front of the battery, or inside the battery itself. Corrosion generally happens for two reasons:
1. Moisture introduced during water crossings, pressure washing after rides, repeat exposure to frost and thaw, or storage in high-humidity areas. Corrosion due to moisture can be somewhat remedied (other than full on drops in the river), by occasionally replenishing the dielectric grease in the charging/diagnostics port. For off-road vehicles or watercraft, you may also and increase water resistance by applying liquid electrical tape or RTV silicone on the case split seam and around the base of the terminals.
2. Corrosion can also happen after continued deep discharges over time.
10. PIN DAMAGE / SHORTING: Please be careful when inserting the SHO-BMS01 charger cable, the Sentry cable, or closing the gray charging/diagnostics port door for any reason. If you force any of these into the port when misaligned it can cause the pins to become damaged and possibly break off, or bend towards one another, thereby shorting the battery. Once this occurs, the LFX battery cannot be charged correctly using the Shorai charger, nor balanced, or recovered.
_________________________________________________________________________
From: Captain
Sent: 5/20/2015 9:47:48 PM
To: shop@shorai.org
CC: Motorcycle Superstore Customer Service
Subject: RE: Case Update: 67xx - Physical battery case damage. The bottom of the b (Ticket# 5xxx9x)
Folks,
I figured there would be some sort of point the finger on someone else and move on… I am enclosing both Shorai and Motorcycle Superstore so that you all are engaged and informed.
Shorai you just advised me that the battery you recommend for the Hayabusa is the LFX19A4-BS12 so I went to the Motorcycle Superstore and below is a screen shot of what they have listed, of course what you are recommending is not the same as what is listed for my model so we can see there is a current disconnect. I can assure you that when I picked my battery on 3/19/2013 I didn’t just grab the first option but chose the year, make and model of my bike just like I did tonight and received a different model recommended for my bike so I purchased it.
I am not going to shell out more money for a battery that did not hold up to the most basic operation needed to ride a bike. I will however be adding a finishing touch to a post I started on my forum hayabusa.org in 2013 when my battery arrived. https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/gene...4-new-battery-couldnt-believe-difference.html I can now cover longevity, customer service and prepare others for the issues they will surely face.
Thanks for the information, the denial and the predictable answers from a very large company.
Doug King
Owner: Hayabusa.oRg
___________________________________________
Hello Doug,
This looks to be the first time you have contacted us regarding the issue. I do see where you purchased the LFX14A1-BS12 which in reading your comments on the forum it sounds like a lot of website in 3/2013 listed that battery for the 2008 Hayabusa. I also saw where it looked like Shorai recommended the LFX18A1-BS12 at one point but now there site is showing the LFX19A4-BS12 for your 2008 Hayabusa. Due to the discrepancies please contact our customer service department to initiate a warranty return. We will then work with Shorai regarding the warranty. We should then be able to get you refunded for the price you paid.
Your Order # is 3xx0xx
Thank you,
Customer Support
Motorcycle Superstore
877-668-6872
www.motorcycle-superstore.com
Super Deals, Super Fast
From: Shop [mailto:shop@shorai.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 2:03 PM
To: customersupport@motorcycle-superstore.com; 'Captain'
Subject: RE: Case Update: xxx9 - Physical battery case damage. The bottom of the b (Ticket# xxxx9)
That being said, regarding your battery, the LFX14A1-BS12. In 2013, the LFX18A1-BS12 was the recommendation on our website for the 2008 Hayabusa, not the LFX14A1-BS12. I am not aware of the battery recommendation in early 2012, but I am looking at the log for 2013 and it clearly says the LFX18A1 for the recommendation entry. All changes are logged by user, date, and time.
Sincerely,
Sincerely,
Marianne
Marianne | Customer Service Manager | Shorai, Inc | T:408-720-8821 | shop@shorai.org | http://www.shoraipower.com
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
From: customersupport@motorcycle-superstore.com [mailto:customersupport@motorcycle-superstore.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 5:52 AM
To: Captain
Cc: Motorcycle Superstore Customer Service <superstorex@motorcycle-superstore.com>
Subject: RE: Case Update: 6xxx - Physical battery case damage. The bottom of the b (Ticket# xxxxx9)
Marianne,
You might want to escalate this case to a supervisor as each time you respond to me the positive image for Shorai dims. If you read my email you would see “I went to the Motorcycle Superstore and below is a screen shot of what they have listed, of course what you are recommending is not the same as what is listed for my model so we can see there is a current disconnect.†My comment about the website was for the Motorcycle Superstore to which they have already replied with a very positive and understanding response… Before you lay down the law you might want to take just a few more seconds to actually read the content from your customers… I never said that the Shorai website was in question but since now you have decided to take so much time and look into the logs from 2 years ago I can see that you are ready to draw a line. I will be patiently waiting for an email from a supervisor to see how Shorai deals with customers after such an oversight… So far motorcycle superstore wins for listening and making adjustments. I will be posting these emails on the Hayabusa.oRg website so we can see how Shorai manages the issue… I kindly request you escalate this issue on your side before I go around you through other avenues..
See email from Motorcycle Superstore’s response for a general guide on how to not throw your policies and general knowledge at customers…
Hello Doug,
This looks to be the first time you have contacted us regarding the issue. I do see where you purchased the LFX14A1-BS12 which in reading your comments on the forum it sounds like a lot of website in 3/2013 listed that battery for the 2008 Hayabusa. I also saw where it looked like Shorai recommended the LFX18A1-BS12 at one point but now there site is showing the LFX19A4-BS12 for your 2008 Hayabusa. Due to the discrepancies please contact our customer service department to initiate a warranty return. We will then work with Shorai regarding the warranty. We should then be able to get you refunded for the price you paid.
Your Order # is 3190620
Thank you,
Customer Support
Motorcycle Superstore
The bottom of the Shorai battery busted out and I opened a ticket with the customer support group. The responses are below, the original ticket was simply 3 pictures, my invoice and it was sent in as instructed on the Shorai website. The whole thing was pretty simple at first, Motorcycle Superstore really stepped up as you can see but Shorai told me I had the wrong battery, when I looked at the Motorcycle Superstore website last week they had a different model listed from what was recommended which just proved my point... When I ordered the battery from MCSS in 2013 that was the battery listed.... Shorai with all the extra time in support decided to go look at their website to see what was listed, unless there is a connect behind the scenes they have no idea what MCSS had online, if they are linked then the current site is wrong.. In the end I hate policies being thrown at me, so now the Customer Service Rep has looked at logs to a website that I never went to and is very inflexible while at the same time Motorcycle Superstore is willing to work with me for a potential oversight on their part....
I am more interested in the response from Shorai at this point on how they deal with customers, if they will treat me as a consumer like this in a public space how do they treat my friends and fellow riders who don't have such a platform to use like this site? Read up and let me know your thoughts......
Cap
____________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________
Doug,
We are sorry to hear of your issues with your Shorai battery. However, this type of physical damage occurs under only very specific circumstances:
PHYSICAL CASE DAMAGE (LEAKING, BOWED, OR BALLOONED BATTERY CASE): Physical battery case damage is often the result of having too small of a battery for your vehicle. It can also be caused by a deeply discharged battery being “jumped†or roll-started and then allowing the motorcycle to charge the battery the rest of the way. It can be caused from too much voltage, or too much current. The starter current should be 25-50% of the battery’s CCA rating. Physical case damage may also be indicative of a faulty regulator or very strong charging system output of over 15.2V at the terminals. When a non-balancing charger is used on a very deeply discharged battery (or a battery that has been internally shorted due to cell damage) you may risk cell/case expansion if too much voltage goes into one or two cells.
Per our 3rd year warranty conditions, the cost to replace would be 25% off of the MSRP. However, we can extend the 2 year, 50% discount instead. The LFX we recommend for the Hayabusa is the LFX19A4-BS12. The cost to replace would e $99.98 and would include a new, 3 year prorated warranty.
Please return the battery to us and if you'd like the replacement, please call us with your credit card. Your case reference number is #6xxx.
Shorai, Inc.
16020 Caputo Dr., Suite 100
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
Case/RMA #6749
Troubleshooting & Preventing A Battery Failure
SHORAI LFX Batteries Are Powersports STARTER BATTERIES ONLY. Please use the guide below to rule out any issues on your end which may cause a premature battery failure. IF YOU HAVE A 6V battery, please halve all voltage readings stated as voltages mentioned are for 12V.
1. WRONG BATTERY FOR YOUR VEHICLE: Always check the SHORAI Product Finder, www.shoraipower.com/display Do not rely on other websites for this information as they may be incorrect.
1. If you do NOT see your application on our product finder, please call customer service (ph. 888-477-4848)
2. Our batteries are designed for powersports starting applications only. We do not recommend, nor warranty, usage for cars, boats, electric scooters/bicycles, cameras, and other complete loss systems.
3. We do not recommend, nor warranty, our batteries if used in custom motorcycles with large displacement V-twin engines (over 110Ci).
4. Ideally, the starter current amperage load should be between 25% and 50% of the battery’s CCA rating.
2. MINIMUM VOLTAGE: LFXâ„¢ batteries should be recharged whenever voltage drops to 13.1V or sooner. Repeat crank attempts, non-use, and accessories can cause your battery to fall below 12.86V (resting voltage). This is the most common reason for returns.
3. KEY-OFF DRAW: The Shorai battery has a very slow self-discharge rate and when fully charged will hold at or above 13.1V for approximately 1 year. But, if installed in a vehicle, the electrical system draw can discharge the battery over time. Standard draw is about 1-3 mAh on modern motorcycles. Damage due to overdischarge is not a manufacturing defect and is not covered under warranty. Repeat discharges below 12.86V, or a long duration discharge, can cause cell imbalance and possibly damage the cells.
How to check your key-off draw:
o Switch your Digital Multimeter to DC mA, 20m/mA is sufficient unless you have a considerable key-off draw—if so switch it to 200m/mA.
o Disconnect the negative terminal from the battery to your motorcycle. Do not touch the positive terminal connection. Keep it as is, covered and protected.
o Place the Negative (black) Multimeter probe on the negative post of the battery and the Positive (red) probe on the ground wire (and together with any others that were connected to it (accessories like a Power Commander or alarm). You may hold the ground/negative wires together with your hand when checking, it will not shock you.
o The digital readout should read no more than 4 to 5 mA. If the reading is higher than 4-5 mA, the vehicle will need more frequent charging. Most motorcycles are less than 1 mA.
o Accessories such as GPS, computers, and grip warmers which are left on, and even stock anti-theft deterrents will discharge your battery extremely fast. Please ascertain all non-anti-theft, or non-essential device accessories can be turned off and note that you will need to charge your battery more often while using even the factory anti-theft device.
4. VEHICLE CHARGING SYSTEM OUTPUT: If your vehicle’s charging system is not working properly the battery will be discharged while in operation. Using a Multimeter, check that the charging system output voltage is at least 13.1V at idle, 13.6V-14.4V at ~2000rpm, and no more than 15.2V at the terminals.
How to check your vehicle’s charging system output:
• Connect a multimeter to the battery while the bike is running. At Idle, the voltage should read no less than 13.1V. Turn on any accessories you may use normally and determine again if it is above 13.1V
• Check the voltage when the bike is at ~2000rpm. It should read 13.6V-14.4V while at this rpm to be an ideal output for our Shorai batteries.
• It is typical to see the voltage rise/fall when the rpms do so, respectively.
• You should also perform a voltage output check with your normal accessory usage to determine if your battery can remain charged while using said accessories.
5. ACCESSORIES: Lights, Radios, Phone Chargers, etc. should not remain on when the vehicle is not running. Accessories are designed to run off of the charging system of the vehicle, not the reserve of the battery. If you have several aftermarket, or high-draw OEM accessories on the vehicle that creates more of a draw than your charging system can restore to the battery, your battery will begin to drain. Once this happens, your vehicle may not start or run correctly. If you continue to attempt to crank the motor or use the vehicle to charge a deeply discharged battery, you can cause physical cell and possibly battery case damage.
6. CHARGING: The Shorai charger charges, balances, and performs cell diagnostics. Although we recommend the Shorai Charge and Store Battery Management System to keep your battery at its healthiest, you can use a 2 amp or less 3-stage compatible Charger that does not have a desulfation mode as long as your battery has not fallen below 12.86V. Charging a deeply discharged LFX battery on a non-balancing charger can result in cell imbalances and possible case damage if too much voltage goes into one cell. Please remove your battery from the charger as soon as it is fully charged as most chargers may store/float your Shorai battery at too low of a voltage (below 13.1V). NEVER use a charger if it has an automatic recovery, or "desulfation mode", which cannot be turned off as this will damage the battery.
7. WE DO NOT RECOMMEND MOST NON-SHORAI BATTERY “TENDERS", TRICKLE CHARGERS FOR STORAGE/MAINTAINING: The LFX battery should ideally be stored at 13.3V. Most common retail battery chargers do not maintain a high enough voltage and will cause the battery to fall below 13.1V for longer periods. If you are not going to use your vehicle for long periods, don’t have a Shorai charger, or won’t be able to start your bike occasionally to keep it charged, you can instead charge the battery to full (~14.4V) then disconnect the negative terminal lead from battery to bike. This will prevent any key-off draw from draining your battery during non-use. IF YOUR BATTERY FALLS BELOW 12.86V, you should only use a balance charger, such as the Shorai BMS01, to ensure even charging across the cells (3.6V per cell, 4S configuration). If not, you can cause cell imbalances, and possibly physical damage to the cells and case. A nonbalancing charger may charge (or overcharge) only one or two cells completely which then “tricks†the charger into determining that the battery is fully charged.
8. PHYSICAL CASE DAMAGE (LEAKING, BOWED, OR BALLOONED BATTERY CASE): Physical battery case damage is often the result of having too small of a battery for your vehicle. It can also be caused by a deeply discharged battery being “jumped†or roll-started and then allowing the motorcycle to charge the battery the rest of the way. It can be caused from too much voltage, or too much current. The starter current should be 25-50% of the battery’s CCA rating. Physical case damage may also be indicative of a faulty regulator or very strong charging system output of over 15.2V at the terminals. When a non-balancing charger is used on a very deeply discharged battery (or a battery that has been internally shorted due to cell damage) you may risk cell/case expansion if too much voltage goes into one or two cells.
9. CORROSION: Although not very common, we sometimes receive batteries which show signs of corrosion, either at the charging/diagnostics port covered by the gray cap on the front of the battery, or inside the battery itself. Corrosion generally happens for two reasons:
1. Moisture introduced during water crossings, pressure washing after rides, repeat exposure to frost and thaw, or storage in high-humidity areas. Corrosion due to moisture can be somewhat remedied (other than full on drops in the river), by occasionally replenishing the dielectric grease in the charging/diagnostics port. For off-road vehicles or watercraft, you may also and increase water resistance by applying liquid electrical tape or RTV silicone on the case split seam and around the base of the terminals.
2. Corrosion can also happen after continued deep discharges over time.
10. PIN DAMAGE / SHORTING: Please be careful when inserting the SHO-BMS01 charger cable, the Sentry cable, or closing the gray charging/diagnostics port door for any reason. If you force any of these into the port when misaligned it can cause the pins to become damaged and possibly break off, or bend towards one another, thereby shorting the battery. Once this occurs, the LFX battery cannot be charged correctly using the Shorai charger, nor balanced, or recovered.
_________________________________________________________________________
From: Captain
Sent: 5/20/2015 9:47:48 PM
To: shop@shorai.org
CC: Motorcycle Superstore Customer Service
Subject: RE: Case Update: 67xx - Physical battery case damage. The bottom of the b (Ticket# 5xxx9x)
Folks,
I figured there would be some sort of point the finger on someone else and move on… I am enclosing both Shorai and Motorcycle Superstore so that you all are engaged and informed.
Shorai you just advised me that the battery you recommend for the Hayabusa is the LFX19A4-BS12 so I went to the Motorcycle Superstore and below is a screen shot of what they have listed, of course what you are recommending is not the same as what is listed for my model so we can see there is a current disconnect. I can assure you that when I picked my battery on 3/19/2013 I didn’t just grab the first option but chose the year, make and model of my bike just like I did tonight and received a different model recommended for my bike so I purchased it.
I am not going to shell out more money for a battery that did not hold up to the most basic operation needed to ride a bike. I will however be adding a finishing touch to a post I started on my forum hayabusa.org in 2013 when my battery arrived. https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/gene...4-new-battery-couldnt-believe-difference.html I can now cover longevity, customer service and prepare others for the issues they will surely face.
Thanks for the information, the denial and the predictable answers from a very large company.
Doug King
Owner: Hayabusa.oRg
___________________________________________
Hello Doug,
This looks to be the first time you have contacted us regarding the issue. I do see where you purchased the LFX14A1-BS12 which in reading your comments on the forum it sounds like a lot of website in 3/2013 listed that battery for the 2008 Hayabusa. I also saw where it looked like Shorai recommended the LFX18A1-BS12 at one point but now there site is showing the LFX19A4-BS12 for your 2008 Hayabusa. Due to the discrepancies please contact our customer service department to initiate a warranty return. We will then work with Shorai regarding the warranty. We should then be able to get you refunded for the price you paid.
Your Order # is 3xx0xx
Thank you,
Customer Support
Motorcycle Superstore
877-668-6872
www.motorcycle-superstore.com
Super Deals, Super Fast
From: Shop [mailto:shop@shorai.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 2:03 PM
To: customersupport@motorcycle-superstore.com; 'Captain'
Subject: RE: Case Update: xxx9 - Physical battery case damage. The bottom of the b (Ticket# xxxx9)
That being said, regarding your battery, the LFX14A1-BS12. In 2013, the LFX18A1-BS12 was the recommendation on our website for the 2008 Hayabusa, not the LFX14A1-BS12. I am not aware of the battery recommendation in early 2012, but I am looking at the log for 2013 and it clearly says the LFX18A1 for the recommendation entry. All changes are logged by user, date, and time.
Sincerely,
Sincerely,
Marianne
Marianne | Customer Service Manager | Shorai, Inc | T:408-720-8821 | shop@shorai.org | http://www.shoraipower.com
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
From: customersupport@motorcycle-superstore.com [mailto:customersupport@motorcycle-superstore.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 5:52 AM
To: Captain
Cc: Motorcycle Superstore Customer Service <superstorex@motorcycle-superstore.com>
Subject: RE: Case Update: 6xxx - Physical battery case damage. The bottom of the b (Ticket# xxxxx9)
Marianne,
You might want to escalate this case to a supervisor as each time you respond to me the positive image for Shorai dims. If you read my email you would see “I went to the Motorcycle Superstore and below is a screen shot of what they have listed, of course what you are recommending is not the same as what is listed for my model so we can see there is a current disconnect.†My comment about the website was for the Motorcycle Superstore to which they have already replied with a very positive and understanding response… Before you lay down the law you might want to take just a few more seconds to actually read the content from your customers… I never said that the Shorai website was in question but since now you have decided to take so much time and look into the logs from 2 years ago I can see that you are ready to draw a line. I will be patiently waiting for an email from a supervisor to see how Shorai deals with customers after such an oversight… So far motorcycle superstore wins for listening and making adjustments. I will be posting these emails on the Hayabusa.oRg website so we can see how Shorai manages the issue… I kindly request you escalate this issue on your side before I go around you through other avenues..
See email from Motorcycle Superstore’s response for a general guide on how to not throw your policies and general knowledge at customers…
Hello Doug,
This looks to be the first time you have contacted us regarding the issue. I do see where you purchased the LFX14A1-BS12 which in reading your comments on the forum it sounds like a lot of website in 3/2013 listed that battery for the 2008 Hayabusa. I also saw where it looked like Shorai recommended the LFX18A1-BS12 at one point but now there site is showing the LFX19A4-BS12 for your 2008 Hayabusa. Due to the discrepancies please contact our customer service department to initiate a warranty return. We will then work with Shorai regarding the warranty. We should then be able to get you refunded for the price you paid.
Your Order # is 3190620
Thank you,
Customer Support
Motorcycle Superstore
Last edited:
And the rest of the story.........
The bottom of the Shorai battery busted out and I opened a ticket with the customer support group. The responses are below, the original ticket was simply 3 pictures, my invoice and it was sent in as instructed on the Shorai website. The whole thing was pretty simple at first, Motorcycle Superstore really stepped up as you can see but Shorai told me I had the wrong battery, when I looked at the Motorcycle Superstore website last week they had a different model listed from what was recommended which just proved my point... When I ordered the battery from MCSS in 2013 that was the battery listed.... Shorai with all the extra time in support decided to go look at their website to see what was listed, unless there is a connect behind the scenes they have no idea what MCSS had online, if they are linked then the current site is wrong.. In the end I hate policies being thrown at me, so now the Customer Service Rep has looked at logs to a website that I never went to and is very inflexible while at the same time Motorcycle Superstore is willing to work with me for a potential oversight on their part....
I am more interested in the response from Shorai at this point on how they deal with customers, if they will treat me as a consumer like this in a public space how do they treat my friends and fellow riders who don't have such a platform to use like this site? Read up and let me know your thoughts......
Cap
____________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________
Doug,
We are sorry to hear of your issues with your Shorai battery. However, this type of physical damage occurs under only very specific circumstances:
PHYSICAL CASE DAMAGE (LEAKING, BOWED, OR BALLOONED BATTERY CASE): Physical battery case damage is often the result of having too small of a battery for your vehicle. It can also be caused by a deeply discharged battery being “jumped” or roll-started and then allowing the motorcycle to charge the battery the rest of the way. It can be caused from too much voltage, or too much current. The starter current should be 25-50% of the battery’s CCA rating. Physical case damage may also be indicative of a faulty regulator or very strong charging system output of over 15.2V at the terminals. When a non-balancing charger is used on a very deeply discharged battery (or a battery that has been internally shorted due to cell damage) you may risk cell/case expansion if too much voltage goes into one or two cells.
Per our 3rd year warranty conditions, the cost to replace would be 25% off of the MSRP. However, we can extend the 2 year, 50% discount instead. The LFX we recommend for the Hayabusa is the LFX19A4-BS12. The cost to replace would e $99.98 and would include a new, 3 year prorated warranty.
Please return the battery to us and if you'd like the replacement, please call us with your credit card. Your case reference number is #6xxx.
Shorai, Inc.
16020 Caputo Dr., Suite 100
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
Case/RMA #6749
Troubleshooting & Preventing A Battery Failure
SHORAI LFX Batteries Are Powersports STARTER BATTERIES ONLY. Please use the guide below to rule out any issues on your end which may cause a premature battery failure. IF YOU HAVE A 6V battery, please halve all voltage readings stated as voltages mentioned are for 12V.
1. WRONG BATTERY FOR YOUR VEHICLE: Always check the SHORAI Product Finder, www.shoraipower.com/display Do not rely on other websites for this information as they may be incorrect.
1. If you do NOT see your application on our product finder, please call customer service (ph. 888-477-4848)
2. Our batteries are designed for powersports starting applications only. We do not recommend, nor warranty, usage for cars, boats, electric scooters/bicycles, cameras, and other complete loss systems.
3. We do not recommend, nor warranty, our batteries if used in custom motorcycles with large displacement V-twin engines (over 110Ci).
4. Ideally, the starter current amperage load should be between 25% and 50% of the battery’s CCA rating.
2. MINIMUM VOLTAGE: LFX™ batteries should be recharged whenever voltage drops to 13.1V or sooner. Repeat crank attempts, non-use, and accessories can cause your battery to fall below 12.86V (resting voltage). This is the most common reason for returns.
3. KEY-OFF DRAW: The Shorai battery has a very slow self-discharge rate and when fully charged will hold at or above 13.1V for approximately 1 year. But, if installed in a vehicle, the electrical system draw can discharge the battery over time. Standard draw is about 1-3 mAh on modern motorcycles. Damage due to overdischarge is not a manufacturing defect and is not covered under warranty. Repeat discharges below 12.86V, or a long duration discharge, can cause cell imbalance and possibly damage the cells.
How to check your key-off draw:
o Switch your Digital Multimeter to DC mA, 20m/mA is sufficient unless you have a considerable key-off draw—if so switch it to 200m/mA.
o Disconnect the negative terminal from the battery to your motorcycle. Do not touch the positive terminal connection. Keep it as is, covered and protected.
o Place the Negative (black) Multimeter probe on the negative post of the battery and the Positive (red) probe on the ground wire (and together with any others that were connected to it (accessories like a Power Commander or alarm). You may hold the ground/negative wires together with your hand when checking, it will not shock you.
o The digital readout should read no more than 4 to 5 mA. If the reading is higher than 4-5 mA, the vehicle will need more frequent charging. Most motorcycles are less than 1 mA.
o Accessories such as GPS, computers, and grip warmers which are left on, and even stock anti-theft deterrents will discharge your battery extremely fast. Please ascertain all non-anti-theft, or non-essential device accessories can be turned off and note that you will need to charge your battery more often while using even the factory anti-theft device.
4. VEHICLE CHARGING SYSTEM OUTPUT: If your vehicle’s charging system is not working properly the battery will be discharged while in operation. Using a Multimeter, check that the charging system output voltage is at least 13.1V at idle, 13.6V-14.4V at ~2000rpm, and no more than 15.2V at the terminals.
How to check your vehicle’s charging system output:
• Connect a multimeter to the battery while the bike is running. At Idle, the voltage should read no less than 13.1V. Turn on any accessories you may use normally and determine again if it is above 13.1V
• Check the voltage when the bike is at ~2000rpm. It should read 13.6V-14.4V while at this rpm to be an ideal output for our Shorai batteries.
• It is typical to see the voltage rise/fall when the rpms do so, respectively.
• You should also perform a voltage output check with your normal accessory usage to determine if your battery can remain charged while using said accessories.
5. ACCESSORIES: Lights, Radios, Phone Chargers, etc. should not remain on when the vehicle is not running. Accessories are designed to run off of the charging system of the vehicle, not the reserve of the battery. If you have several aftermarket, or high-draw OEM accessories on the vehicle that creates more of a draw than your charging system can restore to the battery, your battery will begin to drain. Once this happens, your vehicle may not start or run correctly. If you continue to attempt to crank the motor or use the vehicle to charge a deeply discharged battery, you can cause physical cell and possibly battery case damage.
6. CHARGING: The Shorai charger charges, balances, and performs cell diagnostics. Although we recommend the Shorai Charge and Store Battery Management System to keep your battery at its healthiest, you can use a 2 amp or less 3-stage compatible Charger that does not have a desulfation mode as long as your battery has not fallen below 12.86V. Charging a deeply discharged LFX battery on a non-balancing charger can result in cell imbalances and possible case damage if too much voltage goes into one cell. Please remove your battery from the charger as soon as it is fully charged as most chargers may store/float your Shorai battery at too low of a voltage (below 13.1V). NEVER use a charger if it has an automatic recovery, or "desulfation mode", which cannot be turned off as this will damage the battery.
7. WE DO NOT RECOMMEND MOST NON-SHORAI BATTERY “TENDERS", TRICKLE CHARGERS FOR STORAGE/MAINTAINING: The LFX battery should ideally be stored at 13.3V. Most common retail battery chargers do not maintain a high enough voltage and will cause the battery to fall below 13.1V for longer periods. If you are not going to use your vehicle for long periods, don’t have a Shorai charger, or won’t be able to start your bike occasionally to keep it charged, you can instead charge the battery to full (~14.4V) then disconnect the negative terminal lead from battery to bike. This will prevent any key-off draw from draining your battery during non-use. IF YOUR BATTERY FALLS BELOW 12.86V, you should only use a balance charger, such as the Shorai BMS01, to ensure even charging across the cells (3.6V per cell, 4S configuration). If not, you can cause cell imbalances, and possibly physical damage to the cells and case. A nonbalancing charger may charge (or overcharge) only one or two cells completely which then “tricks” the charger into determining that the battery is fully charged.
8. PHYSICAL CASE DAMAGE (LEAKING, BOWED, OR BALLOONED BATTERY CASE): Physical battery case damage is often the result of having too small of a battery for your vehicle. It can also be caused by a deeply discharged battery being “jumped” or roll-started and then allowing the motorcycle to charge the battery the rest of the way. It can be caused from too much voltage, or too much current. The starter current should be 25-50% of the battery’s CCA rating. Physical case damage may also be indicative of a faulty regulator or very strong charging system output of over 15.2V at the terminals. When a non-balancing charger is used on a very deeply discharged battery (or a battery that has been internally shorted due to cell damage) you may risk cell/case expansion if too much voltage goes into one or two cells.
9. CORROSION: Although not very common, we sometimes receive batteries which show signs of corrosion, either at the charging/diagnostics port covered by the gray cap on the front of the battery, or inside the battery itself. Corrosion generally happens for two reasons:
1. Moisture introduced during water crossings, pressure washing after rides, repeat exposure to frost and thaw, or storage in high-humidity areas. Corrosion due to moisture can be somewhat remedied (other than full on drops in the river), by occasionally replenishing the dielectric grease in the charging/diagnostics port. For off-road vehicles or watercraft, you may also and increase water resistance by applying liquid electrical tape or RTV silicone on the case split seam and around the base of the terminals.
2. Corrosion can also happen after continued deep discharges over time.
10. PIN DAMAGE / SHORTING: Please be careful when inserting the SHO-BMS01 charger cable, the Sentry cable, or closing the gray charging/diagnostics port door for any reason. If you force any of these into the port when misaligned it can cause the pins to become damaged and possibly break off, or bend towards one another, thereby shorting the battery. Once this occurs, the LFX battery cannot be charged correctly using the Shorai charger, nor balanced, or recovered.
_________________________________________________________________________
From: Captain
Sent: 5/20/2015 9:47:48 PM
To: shop@shorai.org
CC: Motorcycle Superstore Customer Service
Subject: RE: Case Update: 67xx - Physical battery case damage. The bottom of the b (Ticket# 5xxx9x)
Folks,
I figured there would be some sort of point the finger on someone else and move on… I am enclosing both Shorai and Motorcycle Superstore so that you all are engaged and informed.
Shorai you just advised me that the battery you recommend for the Hayabusa is the LFX19A4-BS12 so I went to the Motorcycle Superstore and below is a screen shot of what they have listed, of course what you are recommending is not the same as what is listed for my model so we can see there is a current disconnect. I can assure you that when I picked my battery on 3/19/2013 I didn’t just grab the first option but chose the year, make and model of my bike just like I did tonight and received a different model recommended for my bike so I purchased it.
I am not going to shell out more money for a battery that did not hold up to the most basic operation needed to ride a bike. I will however be adding a finishing touch to a post I started on my forum hayabusa.org in 2013 when my battery arrived. https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/gene...4-new-battery-couldnt-believe-difference.html I can now cover longevity, customer service and prepare others for the issues they will surely face.
Thanks for the information, the denial and the predictable answers from a very large company.
Doug King
Owner: Hayabusa.oRg
___________________________________________
Hello Doug,
This looks to be the first time you have contacted us regarding the issue. I do see where you purchased the LFX14A1-BS12 which in reading your comments on the forum it sounds like a lot of website in 3/2013 listed that battery for the 2008 Hayabusa. I also saw where it looked like Shorai recommended the LFX18A1-BS12 at one point but now there site is showing the LFX19A4-BS12 for your 2008 Hayabusa. Due to the discrepancies please contact our customer service department to initiate a warranty return. We will then work with Shorai regarding the warranty. We should then be able to get you refunded for the price you paid.
Your Order # is 3xx0xx
Thank you,
Customer Support
Motorcycle Superstore
877-668-6872
www.motorcycle-superstore.com
Super Deals, Super Fast
From: Shop [mailto:shop@shorai.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 2:03 PM
To: customersupport@motorcycle-superstore.com; 'Captain'
Subject: RE: Case Update: xxx9 - Physical battery case damage. The bottom of the b (Ticket# xxxx9)
That being said, regarding your battery, the LFX14A1-BS12. In 2013, the LFX18A1-BS12 was the recommendation on our website for the 2008 Hayabusa, not the LFX14A1-BS12. I am not aware of the battery recommendation in early 2012, but I am looking at the log for 2013 and it clearly says the LFX18A1 for the recommendation entry. All changes are logged by user, date, and time.
Sincerely,
Sincerely,
Marianne
Marianne | Customer Service Manager | Shorai, Inc | T:408-720-8821 | shop@shorai.org | http://www.shoraipower.com
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
From: customersupport@motorcycle-superstore.com [mailto:customersupport@motorcycle-superstore.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 5:52 AM
To: Captain
Cc: Motorcycle Superstore Customer Service <superstorex@motorcycle-superstore.com>
Subject: RE: Case Update: 6xxx - Physical battery case damage. The bottom of the b (Ticket# xxxxx9)
Marianne,
You might want to escalate this case to a supervisor as each time you respond to me the positive image for Shorai dims. If you read my email you would see “I went to the Motorcycle Superstore and below is a screen shot of what they have listed, of course what you are recommending is not the same as what is listed for my model so we can see there is a current disconnect.” My comment about the website was for the Motorcycle Superstore to which they have already replied with a very positive and understanding response… Before you lay down the law you might want to take just a few more seconds to actually read the content from your customers… I never said that the Shorai website was in question but since now you have decided to take so much time and look into the logs from 2 years ago I can see that you are ready to draw a line. I will be patiently waiting for an email from a supervisor to see how Shorai deals with customers after such an oversight… So far motorcycle superstore wins for listening and making adjustments. I will be posting these emails on the Hayabusa.oRg website so we can see how Shorai manages the issue… I kindly request you escalate this issue on your side before I go around you through other avenues..
See email from Motorcycle Superstore’s response for a general guide on how to not throw your policies and general knowledge at customers…
Hello Doug,
This looks to be the first time you have contacted us regarding the issue. I do see where you purchased the LFX14A1-BS12 which in reading your comments on the forum it sounds like a lot of website in 3/2013 listed that battery for the 2008 Hayabusa. I also saw where it looked like Shorai recommended the LFX18A1-BS12 at one point but now there site is showing the LFX19A4-BS12 for your 2008 Hayabusa. Due to the discrepancies please contact our customer service department to initiate a warranty return. We will then work with Shorai regarding the warranty. We should then be able to get you refunded for the price you paid.
Your Order # is 3190620
Thank you,
Customer Support
Motorcycle Superstore
This is complete BS, at least MCSS has stepped up, buut as far as Shorai, they have not won any point's in my book. Nor can i really say what i want to here!
And the rest of the story.........
The bottom of the Shorai battery busted out and I opened a ticket with the customer support group. The responses are below, the original ticket was simply 3 pictures, my invoice and it was sent in as instructed on the Shorai website. The whole thing was pretty simple at first, Motorcycle Superstore really stepped up as you can see but Shorai told me I had the wrong battery, when I looked at the Motorcycle Superstore website last week they had a different model listed from what was recommended which just proved my point... When I ordered the battery from MCSS in 2013 that was the battery listed.... Shorai with all the extra time in support decided to go look at their website to see what was listed, unless there is a connect behind the scenes they have no idea what MCSS had online, if they are linked then the current site is wrong.. In the end I hate policies being thrown at me, so now the Customer Service Rep has looked at logs to a website that I never went to and is very inflexible while at the same time Motorcycle Superstore is willing to work with me for a potential oversight on their part....
I am more interested in the response from Shorai at this point on how they deal with customers, if they will treat me as a consumer like this in a public space how do they treat my friends and fellow riders who don't have such a platform to use like this site? Read up and let me know your thoughts......
Cap
____________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________
Doug,
We are sorry to hear of your issues with your Shorai battery. However, this type of physical damage occurs under only very specific circumstances:
PHYSICAL CASE DAMAGE (LEAKING, BOWED, OR BALLOONED BATTERY CASE): Physical battery case damage is often the result of having too small of a battery for your vehicle. It can also be caused by a deeply discharged battery being “jumped” or roll-started and then allowing the motorcycle to charge the battery the rest of the way. It can be caused from too much voltage, or too much current. The starter current should be 25-50% of the battery’s CCA rating. Physical case damage may also be indicative of a faulty regulator or very strong charging system output of over 15.2V at the terminals. When a non-balancing charger is used on a very deeply discharged battery (or a battery that has been internally shorted due to cell damage) you may risk cell/case expansion if too much voltage goes into one or two cells.
Per our 3rd year warranty conditions, the cost to replace would be 25% off of the MSRP. However, we can extend the 2 year, 50% discount instead. The LFX we recommend for the Hayabusa is the LFX19A4-BS12. The cost to replace would e $99.98 and would include a new, 3 year prorated warranty.
Please return the battery to us and if you'd like the replacement, please call us with your credit card. Your case reference number is #6xxx.
Shorai, Inc.
16020 Caputo Dr., Suite 100
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
Case/RMA #6749
Troubleshooting & Preventing A Battery Failure
SHORAI LFX Batteries Are Powersports STARTER BATTERIES ONLY. Please use the guide below to rule out any issues on your end which may cause a premature battery failure. IF YOU HAVE A 6V battery, please halve all voltage readings stated as voltages mentioned are for 12V.
1. WRONG BATTERY FOR YOUR VEHICLE: Always check the SHORAI Product Finder, www.shoraipower.com/display Do not rely on other websites for this information as they may be incorrect.
1. If you do NOT see your application on our product finder, please call customer service (ph. 888-477-4848)
2. Our batteries are designed for powersports starting applications only. We do not recommend, nor warranty, usage for cars, boats, electric scooters/bicycles, cameras, and other complete loss systems.
3. We do not recommend, nor warranty, our batteries if used in custom motorcycles with large displacement V-twin engines (over 110Ci).
4. Ideally, the starter current amperage load should be between 25% and 50% of the battery’s CCA rating.
2. MINIMUM VOLTAGE: LFX™ batteries should be recharged whenever voltage drops to 13.1V or sooner. Repeat crank attempts, non-use, and accessories can cause your battery to fall below 12.86V (resting voltage). This is the most common reason for returns.
3. KEY-OFF DRAW: The Shorai battery has a very slow self-discharge rate and when fully charged will hold at or above 13.1V for approximately 1 year. But, if installed in a vehicle, the electrical system draw can discharge the battery over time. Standard draw is about 1-3 mAh on modern motorcycles. Damage due to overdischarge is not a manufacturing defect and is not covered under warranty. Repeat discharges below 12.86V, or a long duration discharge, can cause cell imbalance and possibly damage the cells.
How to check your key-off draw:
o Switch your Digital Multimeter to DC mA, 20m/mA is sufficient unless you have a considerable key-off draw—if so switch it to 200m/mA.
o Disconnect the negative terminal from the battery to your motorcycle. Do not touch the positive terminal connection. Keep it as is, covered and protected.
o Place the Negative (black) Multimeter probe on the negative post of the battery and the Positive (red) probe on the ground wire (and together with any others that were connected to it (accessories like a Power Commander or alarm). You may hold the ground/negative wires together with your hand when checking, it will not shock you.
o The digital readout should read no more than 4 to 5 mA. If the reading is higher than 4-5 mA, the vehicle will need more frequent charging. Most motorcycles are less than 1 mA.
o Accessories such as GPS, computers, and grip warmers which are left on, and even stock anti-theft deterrents will discharge your battery extremely fast. Please ascertain all non-anti-theft, or non-essential device accessories can be turned off and note that you will need to charge your battery more often while using even the factory anti-theft device.
4. VEHICLE CHARGING SYSTEM OUTPUT: If your vehicle’s charging system is not working properly the battery will be discharged while in operation. Using a Multimeter, check that the charging system output voltage is at least 13.1V at idle, 13.6V-14.4V at ~2000rpm, and no more than 15.2V at the terminals.
How to check your vehicle’s charging system output:
• Connect a multimeter to the battery while the bike is running. At Idle, the voltage should read no less than 13.1V. Turn on any accessories you may use normally and determine again if it is above 13.1V
• Check the voltage when the bike is at ~2000rpm. It should read 13.6V-14.4V while at this rpm to be an ideal output for our Shorai batteries.
• It is typical to see the voltage rise/fall when the rpms do so, respectively.
• You should also perform a voltage output check with your normal accessory usage to determine if your battery can remain charged while using said accessories.
5. ACCESSORIES: Lights, Radios, Phone Chargers, etc. should not remain on when the vehicle is not running. Accessories are designed to run off of the charging system of the vehicle, not the reserve of the battery. If you have several aftermarket, or high-draw OEM accessories on the vehicle that creates more of a draw than your charging system can restore to the battery, your battery will begin to drain. Once this happens, your vehicle may not start or run correctly. If you continue to attempt to crank the motor or use the vehicle to charge a deeply discharged battery, you can cause physical cell and possibly battery case damage.
6. CHARGING: The Shorai charger charges, balances, and performs cell diagnostics. Although we recommend the Shorai Charge and Store Battery Management System to keep your battery at its healthiest, you can use a 2 amp or less 3-stage compatible Charger that does not have a desulfation mode as long as your battery has not fallen below 12.86V. Charging a deeply discharged LFX battery on a non-balancing charger can result in cell imbalances and possible case damage if too much voltage goes into one cell. Please remove your battery from the charger as soon as it is fully charged as most chargers may store/float your Shorai battery at too low of a voltage (below 13.1V). NEVER use a charger if it has an automatic recovery, or "desulfation mode", which cannot be turned off as this will damage the battery.
7. WE DO NOT RECOMMEND MOST NON-SHORAI BATTERY “TENDERS", TRICKLE CHARGERS FOR STORAGE/MAINTAINING: The LFX battery should ideally be stored at 13.3V. Most common retail battery chargers do not maintain a high enough voltage and will cause the battery to fall below 13.1V for longer periods. If you are not going to use your vehicle for long periods, don’t have a Shorai charger, or won’t be able to start your bike occasionally to keep it charged, you can instead charge the battery to full (~14.4V) then disconnect the negative terminal lead from battery to bike. This will prevent any key-off draw from draining your battery during non-use. IF YOUR BATTERY FALLS BELOW 12.86V, you should only use a balance charger, such as the Shorai BMS01, to ensure even charging across the cells (3.6V per cell, 4S configuration). If not, you can cause cell imbalances, and possibly physical damage to the cells and case. A nonbalancing charger may charge (or overcharge) only one or two cells completely which then “tricks” the charger into determining that the battery is fully charged.
8. PHYSICAL CASE DAMAGE (LEAKING, BOWED, OR BALLOONED BATTERY CASE): Physical battery case damage is often the result of having too small of a battery for your vehicle. It can also be caused by a deeply discharged battery being “jumped” or roll-started and then allowing the motorcycle to charge the battery the rest of the way. It can be caused from too much voltage, or too much current. The starter current should be 25-50% of the battery’s CCA rating. Physical case damage may also be indicative of a faulty regulator or very strong charging system output of over 15.2V at the terminals. When a non-balancing charger is used on a very deeply discharged battery (or a battery that has been internally shorted due to cell damage) you may risk cell/case expansion if too much voltage goes into one or two cells.
9. CORROSION: Although not very common, we sometimes receive batteries which show signs of corrosion, either at the charging/diagnostics port covered by the gray cap on the front of the battery, or inside the battery itself. Corrosion generally happens for two reasons:
1. Moisture introduced during water crossings, pressure washing after rides, repeat exposure to frost and thaw, or storage in high-humidity areas. Corrosion due to moisture can be somewhat remedied (other than full on drops in the river), by occasionally replenishing the dielectric grease in the charging/diagnostics port. For off-road vehicles or watercraft, you may also and increase water resistance by applying liquid electrical tape or RTV silicone on the case split seam and around the base of the terminals.
2. Corrosion can also happen after continued deep discharges over time.
10. PIN DAMAGE / SHORTING: Please be careful when inserting the SHO-BMS01 charger cable, the Sentry cable, or closing the gray charging/diagnostics port door for any reason. If you force any of these into the port when misaligned it can cause the pins to become damaged and possibly break off, or bend towards one another, thereby shorting the battery. Once this occurs, the LFX battery cannot be charged correctly using the Shorai charger, nor balanced, or recovered.
_________________________________________________________________________
From: Captain
Sent: 5/20/2015 9:47:48 PM
To: shop@shorai.org
CC: Motorcycle Superstore Customer Service
Subject: RE: Case Update: 67xx - Physical battery case damage. The bottom of the b (Ticket# 5xxx9x)
Folks,
I figured there would be some sort of point the finger on someone else and move on… I am enclosing both Shorai and Motorcycle Superstore so that you all are engaged and informed.
Shorai you just advised me that the battery you recommend for the Hayabusa is the LFX19A4-BS12 so I went to the Motorcycle Superstore and below is a screen shot of what they have listed, of course what you are recommending is not the same as what is listed for my model so we can see there is a current disconnect. I can assure you that when I picked my battery on 3/19/2013 I didn’t just grab the first option but chose the year, make and model of my bike just like I did tonight and received a different model recommended for my bike so I purchased it.
I am not going to shell out more money for a battery that did not hold up to the most basic operation needed to ride a bike. I will however be adding a finishing touch to a post I started on my forum hayabusa.org in 2013 when my battery arrived. https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/gene...4-new-battery-couldnt-believe-difference.html I can now cover longevity, customer service and prepare others for the issues they will surely face.
Thanks for the information, the denial and the predictable answers from a very large company.
Doug King
Owner: Hayabusa.oRg
___________________________________________
Hello Doug,
This looks to be the first time you have contacted us regarding the issue. I do see where you purchased the LFX14A1-BS12 which in reading your comments on the forum it sounds like a lot of website in 3/2013 listed that battery for the 2008 Hayabusa. I also saw where it looked like Shorai recommended the LFX18A1-BS12 at one point but now there site is showing the LFX19A4-BS12 for your 2008 Hayabusa. Due to the discrepancies please contact our customer service department to initiate a warranty return. We will then work with Shorai regarding the warranty. We should then be able to get you refunded for the price you paid.
Your Order # is 3xx0xx
Thank you,
Customer Support
Motorcycle Superstore
877-668-6872
www.motorcycle-superstore.com
Super Deals, Super Fast
From: Shop [mailto:shop@shorai.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 2:03 PM
To: customersupport@motorcycle-superstore.com; 'Captain'
Subject: RE: Case Update: xxx9 - Physical battery case damage. The bottom of the b (Ticket# xxxx9)
That being said, regarding your battery, the LFX14A1-BS12. In 2013, the LFX18A1-BS12 was the recommendation on our website for the 2008 Hayabusa, not the LFX14A1-BS12. I am not aware of the battery recommendation in early 2012, but I am looking at the log for 2013 and it clearly says the LFX18A1 for the recommendation entry. All changes are logged by user, date, and time.
Sincerely,
Sincerely,
Marianne
Marianne | Customer Service Manager | Shorai, Inc | T:408-720-8821 | shop@shorai.org | http://www.shoraipower.com
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
From: customersupport@motorcycle-superstore.com [mailto:customersupport@motorcycle-superstore.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 5:52 AM
To: Captain
Cc: Motorcycle Superstore Customer Service <superstorex@motorcycle-superstore.com>
Subject: RE: Case Update: 6xxx - Physical battery case damage. The bottom of the b (Ticket# xxxxx9)
Marianne,
You might want to escalate this case to a supervisor as each time you respond to me the positive image for Shorai dims. If you read my email you would see “I went to the Motorcycle Superstore and below is a screen shot of what they have listed, of course what you are recommending is not the same as what is listed for my model so we can see there is a current disconnect.” My comment about the website was for the Motorcycle Superstore to which they have already replied with a very positive and understanding response… Before you lay down the law you might want to take just a few more seconds to actually read the content from your customers… I never said that the Shorai website was in question but since now you have decided to take so much time and look into the logs from 2 years ago I can see that you are ready to draw a line. I will be patiently waiting for an email from a supervisor to see how Shorai deals with customers after such an oversight… So far motorcycle superstore wins for listening and making adjustments. I will be posting these emails on the Hayabusa.oRg website so we can see how Shorai manages the issue… I kindly request you escalate this issue on your side before I go around you through other avenues..
See email from Motorcycle Superstore’s response for a general guide on how to not throw your policies and general knowledge at customers…
Hello Doug,
This looks to be the first time you have contacted us regarding the issue. I do see where you purchased the LFX14A1-BS12 which in reading your comments on the forum it sounds like a lot of website in 3/2013 listed that battery for the 2008 Hayabusa. I also saw where it looked like Shorai recommended the LFX18A1-BS12 at one point but now there site is showing the LFX19A4-BS12 for your 2008 Hayabusa. Due to the discrepancies please contact our customer service department to initiate a warranty return. We will then work with Shorai regarding the warranty. We should then be able to get you refunded for the price you paid.
Your Order # is 3190620
Thank you,
Customer Support
Motorcycle Superstore
opps Dup
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