Man what a diff!

[dragonbusa]

Some one posted up ah couple of weeks back about up grading the wires from the batt and starter, I just finnished mine,man what a difference. I wont go so far as to say it spins like 24 volts, but man this thing spins like its got 24 volts! my bike has never started so good! Got to be the best mod I"ve done yet. If your thinking about it, go for it

 

[cheferman65]

Some one posted up ah couple of weeks back about up grading the wires from the batt and starter, I just finnished mine,man what a difference. I wont go so far as to say it spins like 24 volts, but man this thing spins like its got 24 volts! my bike has never started so good! Got to be the best mod I"ve done yet. If your thinking about it, go for it

I'm intrigued! Will you please show/explain what you used material wise and how you did it, that would be the cat's pajamas...

A pictorial would really set this ova da top!

 

[dragonbusa]

I'm intrigued! Will you please show/explain what you used material wise and how you did it, that would be the cat's pajamas...

A pictorial would really set this ova da top!

Its pretty strait foward, your just replacing the stock wires from the batt and starter with bigger wire to carry more juice. I"m a cheap scapp so i used some wire i had laying a round the shop and i scavanged the ends off the stock wires. it took a little work to get them off the old wires and open them up to except to the larger wire. I cleaned them with the wire wheel on the drill, then laid a good amount of solder on them. next strip back three inches off the new wire, lace the ends with solder, now the ends and the wire all ready have solder on them so when you hit them with the heat they go right together. pinch them down with the plyers and hit um with some more solder for good mesg. take um off one at the time and complete each one as you go. its a piece a cake.

 

[SGT.Dawson467]

Very nice sir i will have to try this since all the plastics and tank are off the bike for the cooling flush.

 

[andrew929]

Read same post couple weeks ago. The upgrade is to 4 gauge cable. Will also be doing soon since bike is apart.

 

[nabusa]

Interesting, didn't think about doing that. Wonder if it will work on my car too.

 

[card16969]

hmm now im going to have to add in a 4ga cable from the batt to the starter lol

 

[chrisjp]

not a bad idea...

 

[Sum Beach]

Darn it!!!! Now I have another wintertime project . . .

 

[IG.]

I am skeptical about this whole thing. There could simply be a poor connection at the battery/starter which is the case 99% of the time - because these connections experience heat/cold/humidity cycles for years, while at the same time being the most sensitive connectors on the bike when it comes to degradation because they have to conduct the most current among all circuits on the bike. Just cleaning connectors with 100-200 grit sandpaper (and stuffing with dialectric grease for future protection against elements) would noticeably reduce the extra resistance a poor connection introduced, thus allowing for more current to flow during cranking. Putting a new wiring indirectly forces a better connection at the battery/starter terminals because the connectors are clean. So, what is observed is the combined effect of clean connectors and thicker wiring. My educated guess would be that 95% of improvement is due to clean connections, and only 5% due to thicker wiring.

The real test would be to take a bike which seemingly suffers from poor cranking. First, clean battery/starter connectors, re-tighten, and measure what current goes through the circuit whena cranking. Then, install a new wiring, and measure again, and compare both.

An example: my friend had trouble starting the bike. It would barely turn. He replaced two or three batteries, was fully charging them, etc. And was scratching his head at this problem. The bike would start with a jump starter with no issues. What turned out to be the problem was poor connection at the battery. All it took was to have a dirty and oxidized terminals coupled with the fact that the screw at the positive terminal was not tight. When he tried cranking for a couple of seconds, his positive terminal was getting so hot, you couldn't hold the finger on it. All it took was a piece of sandpaper to clean it all up, and a quality screwdriver to tighten the terminal.

BTW, in any high current application, follow the heat to figure out where the connection is poor. If the cable is not even warm when you crank the bike for a few seconds, then it's not the problem. A warm connector points to a problem.

 

[jellyrug]

I am skeptical about this whole thing. There could simply be a poor connection at the battery/starter which is the case 99% of the time - because these connections experience heat/cold/humidity cycles for years, while at the same time being the most sensitive connectors on the bike when it comes to degradation because they have to conduct the most current among all circuits on the bike. Just cleaning connectors with 100-200 grit sandpaper (and stuffing with dialectric grease for future protection against elements) would noticeably reduce the extra resistance a poor connection introduced, thus allowing for more current to flow during cranking. Putting a new wiring indirectly forces a better connection at the battery/starter terminals because the connectors are clean. So, what is observed is the combined effect of clean connectors and thicker wiring. My educated guess would be that 95% of improvement is due to clean connections, and only 5% due to thicker wiring.

The real test would be to take a bike which seemingly suffers from poor cranking. First, clean battery/starter connectors, re-tighten, and measure what current goes through the circuit whena cranking. Then, install a new wiring, and measure again, and compare both.

An example: my friend had trouble starting the bike. It would barely turn. He replaced two or three batteries, was fully charging them, etc. And was scratching his head at this problem. The bike would start with a jump starter with no issues. What turned out to be the problem was poor connection at the battery. All it took was to have a dirty and oxidized terminals coupled with the fact that the screw at the positive terminal was not tight. When he tried cranking for a couple of seconds, his positive terminal was getting so hot, you couldn't hold the finger on it. All it took was a piece of sandpaper to clean it all up, and a quality screwdriver to tighten the terminal.

BTW, in any high current application, follow the heat to figure out where the connection is poor. If the cable is not even warm when you crank the bike for a few seconds, then it's not the problem. A warm connector points to a problem.

+1 Those wires are pretty short, so the voltage drop should be minimal. I guess if we really want to analyse this, with a few simple resistance measurments and a calculation we can figure out if there is any advantage or not.

 

[bygblok]

always have to have sceptics that want to put down something someone has done. He made a nice mod on his bike that functionally makes it feel better to him.......why can't you just say nice job or just be quiet about it? He's happy with it, it works good......and THAT'S what was important!

 

[jellyrug]

always have to have sceptics that want to put down something someone has done. He made a nice mod on his bike that functionally makes it feel better to him.......why can't you just say nice job or just be quiet about it? He's happy with it, it works good......and THAT'S what was important!

Apologies if that sounded like criticism, or being sceptical. That sure was not my intention.
I'm just one of those technical nuts, who gets into all the technical details and analytically analyze something before I jump in.
If the OP is happy with his mod, great job that is what is important.

 

[Audiomaker]

Seems to me that it could be a good mod'. I've done the same thing on cars with noticeable improvement.

One has to consider that Suzuki looks at the weight of everything that goes on the bike and tries to minimize it, so it makes sense they would choose the minimum wire gauge for the job.
They are after all in competition with other manufactures for "king of the hill", and those numbers (weight vs HP) equate to sales via bragging rights.

Personally, I don't really care if it's the fastest bike on the planet. I bought the Busa so that I'd have a really fast bike even if I loaded it up with a passenger, saddlebags, and me having had a really big lunch.

The Busa is very forgiving in this regard, so backing away from the bleeding edge still nets an amazing bike. Put another way, you can re-add all those ounces saved by adding creature comforts, options, nav' systems, controllers, and a couple pounds of copper and still have a super fast bike. Suzuki just can't do the same thing from the factory because "Biggest Battery Cable on the Planet" just isn't going to sell as many bikes as "Baddest Bike on the Planet".

I for one will be changing out this battery cable as soon as I get a chance

Sean

 

[IG.]

Uhmm... Mmmm.... You are throwing in a general statement. And no one puts down another person. We all here like to discuss things, and voice our opinions. If I said "This is crap. That doesn't work. It's all in your head. There are no real improvements.", you would have a good point. However, I explained in detail why. Think of it this way: if I am right, my post would save time and money for many people who otherwise would've decided to do this mod. However, I always leave the possibility that I could be wrong, and you can tell this from the tone of my post. And of course I am happy that the problem in the original mod was solved regardless of anything else.

Cheers!

always have to have sceptics that want to put down something someone has done. He made a nice mod on his bike that functionally makes it feel better to him.......why can't you just say nice job or just be quiet about it? He's happy with it, it works good......and THAT'S what was important!

 

[IG.]

Seems to me that it could be a good mod'. I've done the same thing on cars with noticeable improvement.

One has to consider that Suzuki looks at the weight of everything that goes on the bike and tries to minimize it, so it makes sense they would choose the minimum wire gauge for the job.
They are after all in competition with other manufactures for "king of the hill", and those numbers (weight vs HP) equate to sales via bragging rights.

Personally, I don't really care if it's the fastest bike on the planet. I bought the Busa so that I'd have a really fast bike even if I loaded it up with a passenger, saddlebags, and me having had a really big lunch.

The Busa is very forgiving in this regard, so backing away from the bleeding edge still nets an amazing bike. Put another way, you can re-add all those ounces saved by adding creature comforts, options, nav' systems, controllers, and a couple pounds of copper and still have a super fast bike. Suzuki just can't do the same thing from the factory because "Biggest Battery Cable on the Planet" just isn't going to sell as many bikes as "Baddest Bike on the Planet".

I for one will be changing out this battery cable as soon as I get a chance

Sean

Can you do a comparison as I explained in my post - old but clean connectors vs. new cable? I'd be curious to know hard numbers. I am talling about measuring the current. Forget about resistance. It's so small that you would need an expensive equipment to have a valid measurement, and on top of that it may not be valid anyway because the effective resistance may be different when the hight current goes through.

 

[dragonbusa]

There is no way in hell cleaning those ends could make this big of diff, the starter never turned this fast when the thing was brand new! it sounds like the bikes of my boys that have up graded to 24 volts.

 

[Audiomaker]

Can you do a comparison as I explained in my post - old but clean connectors vs. new cable? I'd be curious to know hard numbers. I am talling about measuring the current. Forget about resistance. It's so small that you would need an expensive equipment to have a valid measurement, and on top of that it may not be valid anyway because the effective resistance may be different when the hight current goes through.

No, because I haven't done the mod' yet, and I likely won't bother doing current measurements when I do. I do have the equipment to do so however.

My experience with better starting using a larger (err...smaller) gauge cable comes from years of replacing cables in cars and boats, plus having worked as a high-end car stereo installer for a long time where remote battery banks are involved.

The simplest example might be smaller gauge (eerr..more copper) jumper cables. I can go from having to let a dead battery sit and charge for awhile to start a patient car with cheap cables, to having it slowly turn over the engine with mid-grade cables, to immediately cranking the engine at full speed even with a dead battery using $175 commercial grade heavy jumper cables. The primary difference in these cables?... The amount of copper in them.

One might argue that jumper cables are an extreme example because of their length compared to a motorcycle's relatively short battery>starter cable, but the concept remains.

It would take an enormous amount of copper before current would be lost in the cable itself. Much more copper than could be useful in a flexible cable.
Up to that point though, more copper will conduct current more freely.

There is however a practicality aspect (size/cost/weight) of electrical cables. I am suggesting that weight was likely the #1 priority when Suzuki chose the cable size. Brand new battery, brand new starter, brand new engine...works just fine with Xgauge they chose, and is the lightest.

That is speculation only, but it makes sense when you're going for the lowest (reasonable for production) weight you can get. I would do the same thing.

That said, it doesn't amaze me that people are reporting stronger starter performance from a thicker battery cable. Used bike, used engine, used starter, and so on.

One cannot "forget about resistance" when talking the efficiency of an electrical circuit. It will directly affect the current.

Anyway... can't really hurt right?

Sean

 

[IG.]

Can't hurt, that's true.

 

[RYC1966]

the charging side would benefit more than the batt to starter run...i suppose a fine wire 8ga would be plenty...4ga is huge for the elec value