Liquid to Air Intercooled Plenum

[OZBooster]

Pretty much get what you pay for , RCC will give you a product thats tested, used and given specific results
SRP at best may be similar , but at worst could be totally the wrong core as has been used by others previously and not anywhere near the temp conversion capability


Think also about the heat exchanger section and pump, as Richard has stated, they make up a large part of the systems capability and a good increase in cost to source them separately

 

[BIG CC RACING]

the quality of the ancillaries is as important as the core itself for sure. Fine tuning for best results takes time. The more specislist chargecooler cores are rated in efficiency verses flow. 100% being the most dense & best to cool but it may also be restrictive depending on size & application etc. The more of both you demand the larger it gets.

My figures are based on the quarter mile. The in frame ZX12R chargecoolers we build dont go above 30 degrees in the quarter on 30psi due to the size we can put into them & the frames own natural internal surface cooling ability.

 

[sportbikeryder]

on a high hp turbo, making 30 psi of boost, pre-intercooler temps are over 300 degrees F (150c) after the intercooler we see 100 degrees F (38c), this is with our previous core. We now have a new core and plenum design and the temps have shown to be 40 degrees F. lower yet, and these temps are while using our circulation systems, with a water pump and a heat exchanger, temperature drops are more significant when using ice water.

You are seeing 60F charge temperatures without the use of ice in your liquid while on the dyno?

What are you doing, running the AC at full power for three days in the shop before making a pull?

 

[juissed]

You are seeing 60F charge temperatures without the use of ice in your liquid while on the dyno?

What are you doing, running the AC at full power for three days in the shop before making a pull?

or what exactly is the "liquid" that it's running..

 

[2wicked]

You are seeing 60F charge temperatures without the use of ice in your liquid while on the dyno?

What are you doing, running the AC at full power for three days in the shop before making a pull?

The 40 degree lower temps are not seen on the dyno, dyno temps remain fairly constant as the run only lasts approx. 5 seconds, the 40 degree temp drops have been recorded during 1/4 mile passes and land speed passes, sorry I was not more specific in the first post.

Richard

 

[exabits]

or what exactly is the "liquid" that it's running..

The liquid he refers to is the standard water/antifreeze mix that circulates through the engine and cooling system. He used the term liquid as not all will use the same mix. Some will go pure water with no antifreeze for best cooling or run a completely different product such as Engine Ice or Evans NPG. Personally I've been a long time Evans NPG fan, it is a waterless coolant that eliminates water-causing corrosion, electrolysis and cavitation. I've had some issues in the past with corrosion and cavitation, just running what the factory put in. Unless I know every type of metal in contact with the cooling solution, I will always use a waterless coolant. I won't buy into the hype of "increased" cooling effect this product offers, I'd need a unbiased before and after for that, but it certainly solves corrosion and cavitation.

 

[Got-Busa?]

I certainly am not trying to reinvent anything and it's great that there are people that have done research and testing. There's also always more testing to do and shops like RCC, this liquid plenum could be the next "test". Maybe a "Super Ultra stage 2 kit" would be the first to utilize the newly tested part. Only such people can provide "quality" bolt on kits and feedback to people like me that don't have the resources to test myself. Yeh kits are great, they make it simple, but can you improve a "kit" with an additional part.....hell yes and I intend to.

What you are describing is a Stage-2 Inter-cooled or Stage-2.5 or "Mini Ultra" kit as some call it. It's what I run and lots of others. Start a SEARCH on this forum and a few others, all of this has been covered over and over. That's why I recommended RCC since all of this has been done already and will save you LOTS of time and $$,$$$...

If you really want me to ask a stupid question...here goes. I want to produce 3-400hp off 91 octane pump fuel while being a touring street bike. Will this liquid plenum help prevent detonation keep things cool?

A better question would be is it worth going the extra mile. As in any real benefit to having it... Will it allow 87 octane fuel? If I have it, will water injection be necessary? Will having it allow me to bypass using a standard intercooler/plenum?

Yet there is still even more specific questions like. Can the stock water pump handle the extra resistance load? I may know a lot but I don't know everything, so I thought by coming here I would find some useful info. Instead I got the, send it to a builder and let them decide with a "proven" prebuilt RCC answer.

Is your bike a Gen-I or Gen-II?

CLICK--> https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/turbo/123631-stage-1-5-rcc.html

CLICK--> https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/turbo/130108-new-rcc-ultra-kit-08-09-busas.html

CLICK--> Suzuki Hayabusa Bike Builds - Super Streetbike Magazine

CLICK--> ULTRA PUMP GAS TEMPS

Just a couple to get you started...

Thanks so much for the kind and informative post. I'll keep my response short as I wasn't trying to start any kind of heated debate. I wasn't aware RCC had a liquid cooled plenum available, with this information I can scrap the idea of piecing a turbo kit with my OCD techy demands. If Richard can provide my nerdy needs, it's a no brainer to make 1 purchase instead of 20. I especially like your comment of adding a additional heat exchanger/radiator to the water loop, talk of function gets my business. Great information, thanks again. Hopefully....you may hear from me around tax return time.

Keep searching, LOTS of info about the RCC Ultra setups...

 

[sportbikeryder]

The 40 degree lower temps are not seen on the dyno, dyno temps remain fairly constant as the run only lasts approx. 5 seconds, the 40 degree temp drops have been recorded during 1/4 mile passes and land speed passes, sorry I was not more specific in the first post.

Richard

 

[Boosted Cycle Perf]

Years ago I delt with steadmen. Never again. Now years later, with a lot of experience, and owning a shop that's a dealer for Rcc, ill tell yall this. Right now I'm working with a guy in California that bought a "kit" from steadmen. I'm currently helping acquire the rest of the parts for his kit. Weather it's replacing crappy parts, or parts that were missing all together. He's one of many that I've met over the years that has taken the path of steadmen. While they've "saved" money up front, they've spent that money twice in the end after parts and problems.

That being said let's talk about the Rcc ultra plenum. I've gotten countless miles of high speed highway pulls in the hot Texas summer boosting anywhere from 12-20psi on PUMP GAS. Whenever I go to the track, it's all pump gas. You can't beat it.

Yesterday I rode my bike 193 miles round trip. Several quick 120-150mph busts. 2 times within about a min of each other I made 2 6th gear redline pulls. (Well over 220mph) On an 80 degree day, with a 12.0 afr. And guess what? It rode the rest of the way home after that without a glitch.

You will simply not find a better product.

 

[Kadlak]

Looks like I'm a bit late on a reply, but I will still provide a bit of info that I've picked up recently. I live about 45 minutes from Stedman's shop. The SRP intercooled plenum is now provided by The Motorhead (Dennis Clanton, LSR) and Jay Stedman(Drag) who is doing the majority of fabrication these days. Dennis and Jay are now brainstorming together, so I guess you could say that you have the Ghetto and the SRP combined. You can see the improvements in the quality of Jay's fabrication and welds due the increase in experience since he has more time to dedicate to fab and customer needs. Check out the various photos that Stedman Motorsports has posted as well as on his other related Facebook pages. Motorhead and Jay have both, in the past, had some parts fabricated by Richard (RCC) for their own brands of turbo kits and, as I understand, have a few shared past concepts. Recently several people have redone their turbo setups through Stedman.

From what I understand, Dennis' newest L/A design should flow quite a bit more in terms of airflow and water flow than previous designs. I will not state the percentages that he told me. BTW, I believe that the plenum that is on ebay is of the latest core design, if it is the same one that they had sitting on the shelf when I stopped by last, but you would need to contact them to be sure.

It appears that they also can provide a nice L/A intercooled setup for the ZX14 intake design.

I do not have any personal experience with intercooled plenums from any fabricator yet, so again, this is just MY understanding of info that I've obtained from speaking with both Jay and Dennis and seeing customers bikes at the shop one day. SRP also intends to bring billet plenums to the table soon, after design and I guess a bit of R&D of course.

I am not affiliated with Stedman Motorsports, SRP turbos, Ghetto turbos or whatever. Just a guy "local" to Stedman. I will only add a note that Jay's previous assistant(s) seemed to be a bit inconsistent or even just being understaffed, which led to Jay being overworked and overbooked, so hopefully now and in the future, there won't be any of those bad experiences, but every shop has some from time to time I guess. Later guys. (one more time....don't bash me please, lol. Just trying to speak for a guy who is quite nice and will share his knowledge. both of them actually. I don't know if they visit forums anymore)

 

[Kadlak]

oh yeah........murdered......I've been intending to message you. I've seen many of your posts and comments and posts on your build(s). If you wouldn't mind me asking a bit of advice on my personal build, i'll PM you. Just trying to get an opinion or two on a "minor" detail before I begin to button things up.

 

[Boosted Cycle Perf]

oh yeah........murdered......I've been intending to message you. I've seen many of your posts and comments and posts on your build(s). If you wouldn't mind me asking a bit of advice on my personal build, i'll PM you. Just trying to get an opinion or two on a "minor" detail before I begin to button things up.

Not a problem, I've already responded.

 

[Trainerdave]

Thankyou for the great response. By far the best information i've received here.




Putting a liquid cooled plenum on ebay is not copying a RCC product. If RCC put one out tomorrow, I'd say he's coping SRP Stedman. RCC has sooo much testing and data, can you respond with some of it? Instead of more bias bullying. Sorry but I don't play this brand loyal BS, he's got so much data on a Liquid plenum, please present a dyno, or intake charge temp difference. I don't care if it's Ford/Chevy, I care about function, not the name on it. I don't care if the guy that made it has a perfect track record, if it's a good product and performs, all that matters. One of the most knowledgeable people on this site and all you did is advertise for RCC. If you want to advertise the services you offer, this was not the way to do it, in fact you did the opposite.

Take it or leave it, I don't care, just saying.... a proper information filled response would've been much better than a advertisement. Proper response could've gained you a customer in the near future.

Thanks, to those that helped, Exa

He was trying to help you, in a world of hack mechanics who overcharge you with inferior product and service, I have found both Frank from Powerhouse and Richard from RCC to be top notch knowledgable mechanics who actually care and take pride in their products and services.

 

[Trainerdave]

most of us run wossner pistons and currilo rods

Running Wossner and carillo h-beams here

 

[Pasis]

Hello!

What advise to use the pump for liquid intercooler?
I'll set it on the b-king.
RCC turbo kit stage 2.
RCC Inline Electric Water Pump
or
Schnitz Electric Inline Universal Water Pump

 

[Pasis]

It will be enough for half a standard radiator heat exchanger? What volume do the expansion tank?

 

[BIG CC RACING]

Looks like I'm a bit late on a reply, but I will still provide a bit of info that I've picked up recently. I live about 45 minutes from Stedman's shop. The SRP intercooled plenum is now provided by The Motorhead (Dennis Clanton, LSR) and Jay Stedman(Drag) who is doing the majority of fabrication these days. Dennis and Jay are now brainstorming together, so I guess you could say that you have the Ghetto and the SRP combined. You can see the improvements in the quality of Jay's fabrication and welds due the increase in experience since he has more time to dedicate to fab and customer needs. Check out the various photos that Stedman Motorsports has posted as well as on his other related Facebook pages. Motorhead and Jay have both, in the past, had some parts fabricated by Richard (RCC) for their own brands of turbo kits and, as I understand, have a few shared past concepts. Recently several people have redone their turbo setups through Stedman.

From what I understand, Dennis' newest L/A design should flow quite a bit more in terms of airflow and water flow than previous designs. I will not state the percentages that he told me. BTW, I believe that the plenum that is on ebay is of the latest core design, if it is the same one that they had sitting on the shelf when I stopped by last, but you would need to contact them to be sure.

It appears that they also can provide a nice L/A intercooled setup for the ZX14 intake design.

I do not have any personal experience with intercooled plenums from any fabricator yet, so again, this is just MY understanding of info that I've obtained from speaking with both Jay and Dennis and seeing customers bikes at the shop one day. SRP also intends to bring billet plenums to the table soon, after design and I guess a bit of R&D of course.

I am not affiliated with Stedman Motorsports, SRP turbos, Ghetto turbos or whatever. Just a guy "local" to Stedman. I will only add a note that Jay's previous assistant(s) seemed to be a bit inconsistent or even just being understaffed, which led to Jay being overworked and overbooked, so hopefully now and in the future, there won't be any of those bad experiences, but every shop has some from time to time I guess. Later guys. (one more time....don't bash me please, lol. Just trying to speak for a guy who is quite nice and will share his knowledge. both of them actually. I don't know if they visit forums anymore)

Well put. Some of Jays welding is extremely good from what I have seen

 

[POWERHOUSE]

Hello!

What advise to use the pump for liquid intercooler?
I'll set it on the b-king.
RCC turbo kit stage 2.
RCC Inline Electric Water Pump
or
Schnitz Electric Inline Universal Water Pump

Use the RCC pump- it runs 1" hosing, pumps 5 gallons/minute, and draws a max of 1 amp. Compared to the universal Schnitz pump you are considering, the RCC pump is more efficient and has less of a drag on the electrical system. I have had one on my own personal Ultra street bike for well over six years . . .

 

[Pasis]

Thank you.
I have already contacted with Richard. I will buy 2 pumps it for the king and the Hayabusa.

 

[BIG CC RACING]

Somebody asked me to compare our Billet Chargecooler on Facebook & I explained to him that it is almost impossible for numerous reasons. Let me explain

Firstly the only way I can see of doing it is by putting yours & somebody elses on the same bike with back to back tests. Thats something you dont get chance to do.

At 30psi on a dyno the boost between two runs on the same bike can alter power wise dramatically as it is without a chargecooler. Clutch or tyre slip or heat cycling etc.

Genuine chargecooler cores are normally rated by their core manufacturer as a percentage in efficiency. That percentage is of his core but not of your chargecooler system. An example. If he supplies an 80% efficient core, that essentially means the core is capable of being 80% efficient according to the cooling medium. So if you had 120 degree C inlet temps & the cooling medium (water) was 20 degrees C then a 100% efficiency core in theory could reduce that down to 20 degree c while an 80% core could only reduce it down to 40 degrees C. Thats the ideal world where the cooling medium does not alter & is not hindered by flow etc etc.

Other factors to affect the efficiency is the actual depth of the core as the longer the air is cooled the better which on bikes is a challenge. The bigger the water tube entry size great but that can be compromised by more water pressure or by a deeper core. or by a larger cooling radiator or by using ice or a larger ice tank etc. The whole deal is endless. Hence why its impossible to compare. As previously said the whole deal is important.

All that you can go by often is what a datalogger is telling & even then your screwed because who calibrates their air temp sensor, or who is using the same air temp sensor to compare? There is a huge variation in temp sensors as to what they read. How does the figures compare to ambient air or the cooling medium used or the turbo used that generates the heat? How much did the cooling medium heat up? Who is gonna be genuine with the figures anyway?

Your best starting point would probably be to ask what % efficiency the core is designed for, how deep & big it is & what horsepower can you put through it. Bear in mind the more power a set size needs to flow the less efficent it can be so to allow the boost through it without pressure dropping badly.