Gen1-Gen2 Differences.

[Russ W]

I posted this thread in the wrong place, and was hoping some one can answer, before i go out and spend some hard earned cash. I have a Gen1 busa powered car here in the uk, that I run on loose surface oval circuits.

Whats the difference internally between the gen1 to gen2. I am looking at upgrading my gen1 to something, and wonder which would be better, head and cam mods, or straight swap to gen2. The cost here to do a head and cam mod would be in the region of £2000.00/$3200. And to buy a Gen2 complete engine is about £4000/$6400. I could sell my Gen1 for probably £2000/$3200 and make up the rest for the Gen2. But before i go through all that can some one answer my questions?

Does the gen2 have a stronger output shaft? and also, did suzuki undercut 1st and 2nd gear?

I understand about the compression change, and stroke difference. But heard from somewhere that suzuki adressed the jumping out of gear and output shaft failure issues of the gen1 that I will suffer due to the extra weight of the car.

I ask because if I change from gen1 to gen 2 while the engine is out i may as well undercut the gears and change the output shaft if its needed.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[dadofthree]

You're correct, larger better output shaft, lighter better head, @ 20 RWHP, tranny upgraded.

 

[dadofthree]

I forgot about the cooling system improvements. No more overheating.

 

[BA BUSA]

He has a Gen1 engine in a car ya knucklehead...
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[BA BUSA]

I posted this thread in the wrong place, and was hoping some one can answer, before i go out and spend some hard earned cash. I have a Gen1 busa powered car here in the uk, that I run on loose surface oval circuits.

Whats the difference internally between the gen1 to gen2. I am looking at upgrading my gen1 to something, and wonder which would be better, head and cam mods, or straight swap to gen2. The cost here to do a head and cam mod would be in the region of £2000.00/$3200. And to buy a Gen2 complete engine is about £4000/$6400. I could sell my Gen1 for probably £2000/$3200 and make up the rest for the Gen2. But before i go through all that can some one answer my questions?

Does the gen2 have a stronger output shaft? and also, did suzuki undercut 1st and 2nd gear?

I understand about the compression change, and stroke difference. But heard from somewhere that suzuki adressed the jumping out of gear and output shaft failure issues of the gen1 that I will suffer due to the extra weight of the car.

I ask because if I change from gen1 to gen 2 while the engine is out i may as well undercut the gears and change the output shaft if its needed.

Many thanks in advance.

The Gen2 has the upgraded trans and output shaft, but I think it would be cheaper to build up your Gen1. Plus by building your's you could make it much stronger than a Gen2...I would price it out both ways and then decide which way suits your needs best.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[dadofthree]

He has a Gen1 engine in a car ya knucklehead...
Posted via Mobile Device

That would exclude him from using the cooling system

 

[NOW_WHT]

I posted this thread in the wrong place, and was hoping some one can answer, before i go out and spend some hard earned cash. I have a Gen1 busa powered car here in the uk, that I run on loose surface oval circuits.

Whats the difference internally between the gen1 to gen2. I am looking at upgrading my gen1 to something, and wonder which would be better, head and cam mods, or straight swap to gen2. The cost here to do a head and cam mod would be in the region of £2000.00/$3200. And to buy a Gen2 complete engine is about £4000/$6400. I could sell my Gen1 for probably £2000/$3200 and make up the rest for the Gen2. But before i go through all that can some one answer my questions?

Does the gen2 have a stronger output shaft? and also, did suzuki undercut 1st and 2nd gear?

I understand about the compression change, and stroke difference. But heard from somewhere that suzuki adressed the jumping out of gear and output shaft failure issues of the gen1 that I will suffer due to the extra weight of the car.

I ask because if I change from gen1 to gen 2 while the engine is out i may as well undercut the gears and change the output shaft if its needed.

Many thanks in advance.

jus curious would that be a smart car ur busa engine is in ,if so cool ,heard about this swap ,but at 290lb might be a little cramp. bet it moves I say gen 2 with a turbo

 

[Mythos]

Sounds like there are some important upgrades to the the G2 but basically the the G2 is the same engine with a longer stroke and thinner head gasket. There's your higher compression and larger displacement. You could do that to your G1.

 

[Russ W]

Thanks for all the info, The engine is in the rear of a "Rover" Mini. Running rear wheel drive behind the rear axle line. The car weighs 502kg all in. And goes quite well. Some of the guys i race with run modified Hayabusa lumps, 1400,1500,1600, even 1660cc.

Most of them run twins (2xgsxr1000, even 2x Busa's) in the rear small hatchback cars. (if your interested in a look try this:

- National Autograss Finals 2008 Class7[/url]

Ill cost it up and find out whats best financially. I am even looking into importing a gen2 engine from the states as they seem more readily available.

Anyone know the going rate for a complete gen2 including loom and throttle bodies????. Not interested in the headers/pipes/oil cooler/pair valve. As the costs here are quite high.

I am leaning toward the gen2 at the moment as my engine is a 2001 so showing some signs of age now. (small puff of smoke on start up, and a tiny puff under decelaration) Also i only have 145 rwhp, but that is through a transfer box. I can keep up with the twin engined cars at the moment but dont have the grunt to get past unless they make a mistake.

I believe i need 40-50rwhp to be completely competetive.

 

[dadofthree]

Good luck with it

 

[neoBusa]

heard the brakes are better too!

 

[NOW_WHT]

Thanks for all the info, The engine is in the rear of a "Rover" Mini. Running rear wheel drive behind the rear axle line. The car weighs 502kg all in. And goes quite well. Some of the guys i race with run modified Hayabusa lumps, 1400,1500,1600, even 1660cc.

Most of them run twins (2xgsxr1000, even 2x Busa's) in the rear small hatchback cars. (if your interested in a look try this:

- National Autograss Finals 2008 Class7[/url]

Ill cost it up and find out whats best financially. I am even looking into importing a gen2 engine from the states as they seem more readily available.

Anyone know the going rate for a complete gen2 including loom and throttle bodies????. Not interested in the headers/pipes/oil cooler/pair valve. As the costs here are quite high.

I am leaning toward the gen2 at the moment as my engine is a 2001 so showing some signs of age now. (small puff of smoke on start up, and a tiny puff under decelaration) Also i only have 145 rwhp, but that is through a transfer box. I can keep up with the twin engined cars at the moment but dont have the grunt to get past unless they make a mistake.

I believe i need 40-50rwhp to be completely competetive.

That looks fun as hell , talk about drifting

 

[fastblackblur]

I'm not an expert but I would think it would be more cost efficient to rebuild what you have than buy a new engine and rebuild that to get what you need.

 

[Russ W]

Generally I would agree with you. My thinking is that it will cost me the same amount to upgrade my 2001 engine as it would to just sell my 2001 and purchase a 08/09.

But i will have a lower mileage engine which I can upgrade to a higher level later? What do you all think??

 

[Professor]

While the output shaft is bigger and stronger it is not as large as the aftermarket offerings for the GEN I (and now one is out there for the GEN 2 bikes) Sprocket selection is not as wide for the factory GEN II shaft if that is an issu for you. Dual injectors make more power. Ti Valves and lighter valve springs. Better design camshafts. Better head design. As you mentioned more compression and longer stroke. Higher stock rpm. There are also some minor clutch changes.

You are going to need a harness and ecu with the swap as well.

Stock vs Stock, it would be a good move. Depending on what you plan on upgrading to a higher level it may be cheaper to work what you have based on $$$ vs HP.

 

[Russ W]

Thanks for the information Professor.

Are the dogs undercut on the GEN2 transmission as well? Or is it just a better design. As I would need to undercut them if not. Due to the weight of the car that the engine is transporting it will be just a matter of time before it breaks the output shaft and starts jumping out of gear as well.

As its quite a mission to get the engine in and out I am trying to find out what i need to do to the engine for reliability before fitting. I have been lucky so far that my GEN1 output shaft has not broken. (probably due to the lack of power that the engine is producing in its current form).

Due to the violent nature of our starts, (i.e 1.rev engine to 9k, 2. drop clutch) the output shaft is liable to snapping.

When I buy the engine I will make sure it comes with the ecu etc. As i understand that the electrical systems of the GEN2 are completely different.

Also any ball park ideas of what a GEN2 complete engine cost in the states?? As a reliable supplier here is charging £5,500/$8500. I think it might be cheaper to import one from the US and pay the import/Tax charges.