Gen 2 Clutch Rod / Slave / Pressure Plate / Pusher Issue?

Falkonworks

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So guys, I’ve been working on swapping out my stock inner hub with the Brock’s mod, for a billet one piece hub in my new motor. I ended up having some issues and realized that I was not provided all the extra hardware I would need to properly install the hub. That’s another story I will get into in the build thread once it’s finished up since it’s still an ongoing issue.

What I want to talk about in this thread is another issue I have run into while performing this modification.

I have done the clutch in the Busa twice now, and I know that when I’ve done it in the past, when installing the pressure plate you need to hold pressure against what Suzuki calls the “pusher”. This is the small steel piece with a flange that the clutch rod pushes when you pull the lever. This inner assembly rests at what I’m going to call the “out” position and you have to push it to the “in” position to allow the plate to bolt down.

Both the other times I’ve done this service, it has worked this way. I did this new clutch hub and it worked this way. After realizing something was wrong with the install, I undid the work and retraced my steps to check if it was my error or defective parts, and I was putting the stock setup back into the bike and found that I was unable to push the pusher back into the shaft. It was stuck solid in the out position and no amount of force could move it. What I ended up trying was to take off the front sprocket cover on the opposite side to release the pressure on that inner assembly. This did allow me to push the pusher back in and did not require constant pressure to get the clutch assembly fully torqued down. I then reinstalled the front sprocket cover with the rod into the slave cylinder as it should be. I tested this and everything operates correctly.

A few days later I received some parts to hopefully make the new inner hub work, so I repeated the install procedure for these new parts and at the end when I needed to install the pressure plate I again had the same issue of not being able to push the pusher back in. I repeated the steps I took in the previous paragraph and it all worked out the same way. Unfortunately the new parts I received still did not fix the issue I was having with the new hub. So I undid the install again and went back to the stock parts. I had the issue with the pusher again this time, but once everything is back together it all operates correctly.

So after all this, my question is I know that entire clutch pusher assembly from slave across to the pressure plate should move in and out when you put pressure against the pusher on the clutch side. Why is mine not allowing this to happen? Anyone ever had this issue? Should I be concerned? Everything works just fine when I do the job with the extra step of removing the sprocket cover so I’m really not understanding what my issue is. The only thing I can possibly think is some sort of issue with the slave cylinder. I did have issues with my original slave that was on my bike from the factory, so I swapped over the slave that came on this new motor.

Any ideas or input would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
Strange issue with the slave cylinder. Is your master cylinder keeping pressure on it?

As for the hub, it is an SAE Outlaw hub? If so, I had to order APE gen1 clutch springs that came with the bolts and cups. I then used those bolts and cups with Schnitz brand gen1 heavier duty springs since the APE springs are really stiff and not needed since I'm using a boost assisted clutch. Sorry, long sentence and started drinking already...‍♂️
 
Strange issue with the slave cylinder. Is your master cylinder keeping pressure on it?

As for the hub, it is an SAE Outlaw hub? If so, I had to order APE gen1 clutch springs that came with the bolts and cups. I then used those bolts and cups with Schnitz brand gen1 heavier duty springs since the APE springs are really stiff and not needed since I'm using a boost assisted clutch. Sorry, long sentence and started drinking already...‍♂️
Yes the hub is from SAE Outlaw. I’ve been sitting on it for a few years and finally got around to messing with it. That’s part of the other stuff I’ll dive deeper into in my main thread but I have the conversion kit from MTC on the way now. I got some shims from SAE that I was told would make everything work but they don’t. MTC says this stuff will work so I’m trying it.

As far as the other issue, I’m thinking it must be something with the slave but I just can’t figure out why it still works once it’s assembled in my way, but has issues when done the other way. Just doesn’t make sense to me. I’m thinking about just ordering a brand new slave so I’m sure it’s not the issue.

EDIT-

I also don’t think it’s the master, again for the same reason. Everything works exactly as it should after it’s all assembled my way. You pull the lever and the pressure plate disengages as it should.
 
Yes the hub is from SAE Outlaw. I’ve been sitting on it for a few years and finally got around to messing with it. That’s part of the other stuff I’ll dive deeper into in my main thread but I have the conversion kit from MTC on the way now. I got some shims from SAE that I was told would make everything work but they don’t. MTC says this stuff will work so I’m trying it.

As far as the other issue, I’m thinking it must be something with the slave but I just can’t figure out why it still works once it’s assembled in my way, but has issues when done the other way. Just doesn’t make sense to me. I’m thinking about just ordering a brand new slave so I’m sure it’s not the issue.

EDIT-

I also don’t think it’s the master, again for the same reason. Everything works exactly as it should after it’s all assembled my way. You pull the lever and the pressure plate disengages as it should.
Ok, the way I look at it is like this . . If I was doing the job and the slave piston locked up and would not push in (and it always does with every hydraulic clutch slave cyl I've ever dealt with) I would first off just open the slave bleed nipple ( (with hose into bottle) to make it easier to push back, if that didn't sort the issue I would then remove the slave cyl and disassemble it completely, clean all components and check for damage etc. If no damage visible it may have the incorrect piston/bore diameter, Suzuki changed the piston/bore diameter at the Gen 2 model, Gen 1 is smaller diameter, Gen 2 is larger ( I think? . . . maybe check on that but I'm pretty sure as I sit here. I read about this a few months back . . some one here will chime in hopefully to confirm this or not)
Anyway, if all checks are A-OK reassemble slave cyl and refit etc.
Recheck if you can push the 'pusher/push rod/piston' back all the way in or not.
Try the bleed nipple open first anyway.
Hope you get it sorted, trial by elimination is the best method for diagnosing faults of this type.
 
Ok, the way I look at it is like this . . If I was doing the job and the slave piston locked up and would not push in (and it always does with every hydraulic clutch slave cyl I've ever dealt with) I would first off just open the slave bleed nipple ( (with hose into bottle) to make it easier to push back, if that didn't sort the issue I would then remove the slave cyl and disassemble it completely, clean all components and check for damage etc. If no damage visible it may have the incorrect piston/bore diameter, Suzuki changed the piston/bore diameter at the Gen 2 model, Gen 1 is smaller diameter, Gen 2 is larger ( I think? . . . maybe check on that but I'm pretty sure as I sit here. I read about this a few months back . . some one here will chime in hopefully to confirm this or not)
Anyway, if all checks are A-OK reassemble slave cyl and refit etc.
Recheck if you can push the 'pusher/push rod/piston' back all the way in or not.
Try the bleed nipple open first anyway.
Hope you get it sorted, trial by elimination is the best method for diagnosing faults of this type.
What has me confused is the fact that this slave cylinder has been working fine and that the first time I swapped the parts it pushed back in like it was supposed to. It wasn’t until I redid the work and all the subsequent attempts after that, that it wouldn’t push back in.
 
Suck out some brake fluid from the master, it's hydro locking, with too much pressure

I appreciate the response. I finally got around to trying this out and did not solve my problem. It wasn’t crazy full to start but I still removed some just to see. Also tried just pushing it back with the cap off the reservoir and that did not work either.

I’m going to try a new slave cylinder to start. I’m not sure what would be wrong with it but I’m kinda lost
 
I appreciate the response. I finally got around to trying this out and did not solve my problem. It wasn’t crazy full to start but I still removed some just to see. Also tried just pushing it back with the cap off the reservoir and that did not work either.

I’m going to try a new slave cylinder to start. I’m not sure what would be wrong with it but I’m kinda lost
Sounds like the slave is sticking
 
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