Can you defend your life carrying a pistol in condition 3?

brpo

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Somebody recently asked me to find one example of a sucessful defense - and here it is - this article that came to me via a State Gun Rights Group E-newsletter.

Besides the empty chamber issue - notice the man's thoughts on open carry after the incident.

Man Attacked In Walmart Won’t Open Carry Again
by Bob Owens
April 16, 2015

I’m going to probably shock those who have bought into certain stereotypes of gun owners, but I’m a firm believer in the idea that the best defensive gun uses are those where the law-abiding citizens isn’t forced to pull the trigger of his weapon. Being forced to shoot means that your situational awareness has failed, your defensive measures have failed, and you have no good options left.

We’ve very fortunate that the overwhelming majority of gun owners who have been forced to pull a firearm in self-defense have not had to fire a shot.

A Bearing Arms reader in Yakima, Washington, had such a “good†defensive gun use in the sporting goods aisle of the local Walmart in front of his children in a story that we mentioned yesterday.

A 32-year-old man who was shopping with at least three children at a Yakima Wal-Mart was the victim of an unprovoked assault when a stranger picked up a metal tee-ball bat and struck him, according to Yakima police.

The victim was not injured, but he did have a concealed weapons permit, which he immediately put to use, police said.

A store security officer reported hearing a man in the sporting goods department yelling “Get on the ground!†and found one man pointing a pistol at another, who was lying on the floor.

Police arrived a short time later and arrested the 30-year-old suspect, who remains in Yakima County jail in lieu of $30,000 bail set Monday.

We talked with Mr. Walker just a short time ago.

Mr. Walker typically conceals his full-size carry pistols, but decided to leave his jacket in the trunk on what he expected to be a quick trip with his three older boys for a batting helmet, some baseballs to toss around the yard, and a few other items. As he was helping his sons find a batting helmet that fit, he noticed a disheveled man come down the aisle and made eye contact with him several times.

The man picked up a bat from the bat rack, and without warning, drew back and swung it at Mr. Walker’s head with full force.

Unlike most people who would have frozen due to the unexpected nature of the attack, or who would have reflexively recoiled away, Mr. Walker stepped forward into the swing and turned his shoulder into his attacker. His reaction both reduced the force of the blow, and kept his assailant from making a potentially deadly strike to his head.

Mr Walker then stepped back to create distance and drew his open-carried Sig Sauer P226 in .357 Sig, racked the slide the chamber a round (he carries it on an empty chamber), and ordered his attacker to the ground.

Walmart’s loss prevention manager and another employee were just two aisles over and ran to the sound of the commotion, and helped contain the attacker until six Yakima police officers—a lieutenant, a sergeant, and four patrol officers—arrived to take the suspect into custody in a matter of minutes.

The officers never felt compelled to draw their own weapons, treated Mr. Walker with respect, and told him that he did everything right, and showed considerable restraint.

His attacker, known only as “Trevor,†said next to nothing before, during, or after the attack only other than to note that he’d been arrested before for assault, and that he wanted to exercise his Miranda rights.

I asked Mr. Walker what he took away from this experience in a phone call a few minutes ago.

His first comment was that his practice issuing commands as part of his normal range routine paid off. Since he practiced it, it was easier to give commands for the suspect to comply with, reducing the possibility that he would have to discharge his weapon.

The other take-away from this situation is that he may have made a mistake in not opting to grab his jacket out of the trunk of his car, which he normally wears and would have concealed his handgun.

While “Trevor†never stated specifically why he attacked, the only thing that made sense to Mr. Walker was that Trevor wanted his gun.

From now on, Mr. Walker will carry concealed, and already has just the sidearm picked out for the summer months ahead. The only time he’ll open carry from now on is at the range.

As for the suspect, “Trevor†his is in jail and facing a charge of second degree assault, a felony with the potential for ten years in prison and a $20,000 fine.

A short time ago one of the suspect’s friends contacted Mr. Walker via Facebook, and thanked him for showing restraint. According to her Trevor has long had a history of mental illness, and has never gotten the help that he needs.

Perhaps he’ll get the therapy he needs behind bars.
 
While I can see Mr. Walker's point about not having his jacket on, I don't agree. Since the suspect didn't say anything, it is an assumption that "Trevor" wanted his weapon. I live in Oklahoma where we have open carry as well. I carry a Sig P2022 (9mm) as primary carry weapon. It is the same frame as the P226. I do carry a retention holster. There will be folks that say a retention holster will not stop someone from taking the weapon. Correct, it will not but it will make it more difficult. Given that "Trevor" allegedly has a history of mental illness, I submit the attack was likely to happen anyway. Great job to Mr. Walker on his actions and restraint.
 
I would have shot that piece of **** just for being a piece of ****. F him....


And if his step into the BG didn't go as planned and he became engaged in a close in struggle which hand would he have used to load his weapon? He's lucky the guy went on the ground and he had time to step back and load it. I'm not taking that chance. Mines loaded. I can draw and shoot with one hand if need be.
 
I find your firearms / gun posts and threads quite interesting.

I used to shoot a lot, clays, wildlife / vermin etc, mostly shotguns. I like shooting.
40 years in the UK and 11 in AU we are not used to seeing firearms legally carried and common place.

It's interesting how we have very different attitudes and acceptance in different countries.
Folk would have an absolute meltdown here at the thought of someone with a gun in store!
 
I would prob done same if not injured but if he like almost knocked me out or busted my head bad
I would shoot his eyes out.
 
I find your firearms / gun posts and threads quite interesting.

I used to shoot a lot, clays, wildlife / vermin etc, mostly shotguns. I like shooting.
40 years in the UK and 11 in AU we are not used to seeing firearms legally carried and common place.

It's interesting how we have very different attitudes and acceptance in different countries.
Folk would have an absolute meltdown here at the thought of someone with a gun in store!
yes its very different from one part of the world to the other. the bottom line here is ppl chose to carry guns to defend against a criminal with a gun. I wud think in AU is not so easy to get an illegal gun. I'm sure ppl can some places but not like here. we have essentially two borderless boarders so access is easy especially wen coming from mexico.

there are just too many guns in circulation to think any real gun laws are going to curtail our gun problem which is only getting worse. we had 9 ppl shot at one incident a couple nites ago.....9 people shot, one fatally, outside Bridgeport housing complex | 7online.com

guns are how criminals facilatate their crimes but their also the reason citizens want to arm themselves. its a problem with no real solution.....
 
Yeah, I've seen lots of numbers quoted.
One said the US has 11 or 12 times our gun related fatalities per capita, what most fail to take in is Australia never really had a "gun culture / Wild West" past.

Crims here do get guns, nut jobs with legal ones do go feral, but on the hole I'd guess its very different to the US. The lack of easily obtainable legal guns means that anyone caught with an illegal firearm is taken quite seriously.

AU, NZ and UK have all had guys go on the rampage, all with legal guns they owned, this certainly influenced our current laws.
Our system here works, but it certainly not a case of "do what we do" as its a different culture, attitude, history and situation.

I find the whole US gun debate quite interesting, but I'm not sure cutting the death toll is as simple as asking folk nicely to hand them all in pretty please!

I'm not here to preach any know it all answers, but its topic I do follow.
 
yes its very different from one part of the world to the other. the bottom line here is ppl chose to carry guns to defend against a criminal with a gun. I wud think in AU is not so easy to get an illegal gun. I'm sure ppl can some places but not like here. we have essentially two borderless boarders so access is easy especially wen coming from mexico.

there are just too many guns in circulation to think any real gun laws are going to curtail our gun problem which is only getting worse. we had 9 ppl shot at one incident a couple nites ago.....9 people shot, one fatally, outside Bridgeport housing complex | 7online.com

guns are how criminals facilatate their crimes but their also the reason citizens want to arm themselves. its a problem with no real solution.....

How's those strict gun laws working out for y'all up there in yankeeland? :rofl:
 
about as well as they work everywhere I guess. they don't.....lol

Except they do.

When the UK was averaging 0.25 deaths per 100,000 of the population.
and Australia was averaging 0.86,
..... the US was clocking up 10.30, that's a HUGE difference!

Different sources will give you different figures, but the countries I've lived in and visited with tighter gun control and much more limited access can't come close to matching the US for firearm related deaths.

As I said before, I have owned and been around guns for quite a bit of my past, but there's something nice about living where no one I know owns or carries a gun for home or personal defence. Haven't seen anyone (other than a target or wildlife shooter) apart from a cop with a gun in the last ten years.

If I grew up owning and carrying a gun, where this was the norm, I'd probably not be too keen to give mine up either, but there certainly something to be said where this isn't acceptable.
 
Meanwhile rapes, robberies, assaults and all other types of crimes are thru the roof since they banned guns in the UK and Australia.
You're looking at a singular type of crime. All others are higher than here.
NO THANKS.
 
Believe what you want, but living in the UK and Australia for 50 years
I don't feel a need to carry a firearm, has never crossed my mind.
Sure both country's have their issues but needing to be armed isn't one of them.
The few instances where owning a firearm would be an advantage are far
outweighed by the issues caused by having them in general circulation.

I had a choice of several countries before I chose AU / UK dual citizenship.
Lets agree we are both happy with what we have and where we live.
 
Thats fine Tony, no worries mate.
Just please stop comparing the UK and Australia to the USA because they are not the USA.
We here have something called the 2nd Ammendment. Maybe you've heard of it?
It was written by a group of folks who had just fled oppression from the UK. It does in no uncertain terms guarantee my right to protect and defend myself from all unconditionally. The two countries you refer to do not have anything like that.
We are truly free here. There you are not.

Peace....
 
Thats fine Tony, no worries mate.
Just please stop comparing the UK and Australia to the USA because they are not the USA.
We here have something called the 2nd Ammendment. Maybe you've heard of it?
It was written by a group of folks who had just fled oppression from the UK. It does in no uncertain terms guarantee my right to protect and defend myself from all unconditionally. The two countries you refer to do not have anything like that.
We are truly free here. There you are not.

Peace....
yea we do have the 2nd amendment. and as a result we have one of the highest crime rates on the planet for a modern country.

the US is free and the UK isn't? the UK is free from living in a world where they don't have to worry about being car jacked or home invaded or shot during a street or store robbery so in reality who actually has more freedom?

the US has 10x the death rate as the UK and AU with guns so again who actually has more freedom to go anywhere or do anything without having the worry about being SHOT!

sure, the UK has far more knife violence but you know wat happens wen a criminal pulls out a knife wen tryn to car jack someone? they jus drive away.....:whistle: and I can't remember the last time I responded to a call where a stray knife went thru someones window and killed them as I personally observed a week ago wen I seen a 58 yr old woman DEAD from a stray round to her head as she was taking a shower while criminals with GUNS were outside her apt shooting up the joint smh.

we need guns here cause the criminals have guns. if there were no guns in the first place like in the UK and the punishment for such was more severe no one wud giv a rats as about the 2nd amendment cause no one wud need it!
 
yea we do have the 2nd amendment. and as a result we have one of the highest crime rates on the planet for a modern country.

the US is free and the UK isn't? the UK is free from living in a world where they don't have to worry about being car jacked or home invaded or shot during a street or store robbery so in reality who actually has more freedom?

the US has 10x the death rate as the UK and AU with guns so again who actually has more freedom to go anywhere or do anything without having the worry about being SHOT!

sure, the UK has far more knife violence but you know wat happens wen a criminal pulls out a knife wen tryn to car jack someone? they jus drive away.....:whistle: and I can't remember the last time I responded to a call where a stray knife went thru someones window and killed them as I personally observed a week ago wen I seen a 58 yr old woman DEAD from a stray round to her head as she was taking a shower while criminals with GUNS were outside her apt shooting up the joint smh.

we need guns here cause the criminals have guns. if there were no guns in the first place like in the UK and the punishment for such was more severe no one wud giv a rats as about the 2nd amendment cause no one wud need it!

You're right when they banned guns in the UK even the criminals turned them in. :rofl:
You're smoking crack again I see.

When was the last time some nut with a machete killed a person and then gave an on camera interview as happened last year in the UK? Crazy man killed two people and walked around threatening unarmed civilians remember that?

But let's look at some FACTS which you like to ignore.

You were saying something about being safer in the UK?

https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/09/11/uk-violent-crime-rate-eight-times-higher-than-the-us/

UK Violent Crime Rate Eight Times Higher Than The US
According to the FBI, there were 1.2 million violent crimes committed in the US during 2011.
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...011/violent-crime/violent-crime#disablemobile

According to the UK government, there were 1.94 million violent crimes in the UK during 2011. www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_296191.pdf

There are almost exactly five times as many people in the US as in the UK – 314 million vs. 63 million. The violent crime rate in the UK is 3,100 per 100,000, and in the US it is 380 per 100,000 population.

Brits are eight times more likely to be victims of violent crime than Americans.
So instead of believing what you think I'd rather believe what the professionals know ok.

EIGHT times more likely to be a victim in the UK than here.
Please put the crack pipe down dude.
 
Sorry, but your are wrong.
Very easy to find websites and pages to back up either side...

Quote:
"As Bier put it, "The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a ‘violent crime’ as one of four specific offenses: murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault." By contrast, "the British definition includes all ‘crimes against the person,’ including simple assaults, all robberies, and all ‘sexual offenses,’ as opposed to the FBI, which only counts aggravated assaults and ‘forcible rapes.’ "
Once you know this, Bier wrote, "it becomes clear how misleading it is to compare rates of violent crime in the U.S. and the U.K. You’re simply comparing two different sets of crimes."

It's understandable that if your living in fear you will clutch at straws to defend your belief.

Land of the Free ?
Is that why the US has a figure that dwarfs all other civilised nations for your Jail Population per capita ?
 
Dispelling The Myth – Why the UK is NOT more violent than the US

CONCLUSION: =======================================
While it becomes clear that certain types of offenses are marginally higher in the UK than in the US (robbery and knife crime being more likely in the UK by an order of 1.1x and 1.27x respectively) a number of other, more serious offenses, are both marginally and substantially higher in the US. Rape of a female is 1.02x more likely in the US, while theft of a vehicle is 1.29x more likely. More disturbingly, burglary is significantly higher at 1.52x more likely to occur in the US. "However, it is at the considerably more, well, violent crimes that America really supersedes England and Wales into its own class. In the United States, you are 6.9x more likely to be the victim of aggravated assault resulting in serious injury than in the UK. You are 4.03x more likely to be murdered than in the UK. And more staggeringly (though not surprising) you are 35.2x more likely to be shot dead in the Unites States than in the UK. Before anybody asks, no, these do not take into account justifiable homicide and other “acceptable shootings”, nor do murders for that matter"

https://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com/
 
:dunno:

11401223_850277945009885_7531640178972533179_n.jpg
 
You're right when they banned guns in the UK even the criminals turned them in. :rofl:
You're smoking crack again I see.

When was the last time some nut with a machete killed a person and then gave an on camera interview as happened last year in the UK? Crazy man killed two people and walked around threatening unarmed civilians remember that?

But let's look at some FACTS which you like to ignore.

You were saying something about being safer in the UK?

https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/09/11/uk-violent-crime-rate-eight-times-higher-than-the-us/

UK Violent Crime Rate Eight Times Higher Than The US
According to the FBI, there were 1.2 million violent crimes committed in the US during 2011.
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...011/violent-crime/violent-crime#disablemobile

According to the UK government, there were 1.94 million violent crimes in the UK during 2011. www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_296191.pdf

There are almost exactly five times as many people in the US as in the UK – 314 million vs. 63 million. The violent crime rate in the UK is 3,100 per 100,000, and in the US it is 380 per 100,000 population.

Brits are eight times more likely to be victims of violent crime than Americans.
So instead of believing what you think I'd rather believe what the professionals know ok.

EIGHT times more likely to be a victim in the UK than here.
Please put the crack pipe down dude.
Saiid wen was time last time some gun whacho in the UK went to some elementary school and murdered 20 little boys and girls? or wen was the last time a cop was shot in the UK with a GUN while sitting in his police car cause some jackass with a gun decided to kill a cop or two today? or wen was the last time some gun whacho went into a movie theater and opened fire on innocent ppl killing them or walked into a mall and started shooting ppl and killing them.....

you can google all the info you want but the fact still remains the US is a far more dangerous place then the UK because of guns period!

Saiid your 10x more likely to be MURDERED from a violent crime in the US then you are in the UK. 1 in 12 deaths in the UK are a result of gun violence. in the US its 2 out 3 ppl that die from a violent crime are as a result of a GUN.

let me put it for you this way so maybe you can understand more clearly.....two out of three murders in the US are from GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! are you grasping that Saiid two out of three...... not 1 out of 12.....

so ur 8x more likely to be a victim of a crime don't mean DIICK! ppl care about being MURDERED not punched in the face and their watch taken from them smh......
 
goggle "knife crime" the 1st thing that pops up is the UK...........London is a place to get stabbed.......violence is everywhere..if you don't think so you're just plain stupid...man kind is evil!!!

My arms are staying PERIOD...if I ever have to face an attack of 3..4..or 5 ....I'll level the playing field nicely being armed.
 
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