Any rifle nuts, please explain. Bolt gun versus Pump?

[twotonevert]

As far as accuracy or reach, which is better? Both are closed breech actions. I want to put a new scope on my .270, and I don't want to waste my money. Why buy a bolt gun if what I have will work? Looking to take 2 to 3 hundred yard shots. What say you?

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[lankeeyankee]

I was raised rabbit, grouse, and pheasant hunting so most of my shotguns are pump action. My most accurate rifle for coyote hunting is a bolt action. Bolt actions are supposed to be the most accurate besides semi automatic. But if your a decent shooter and like pump they work just as good. Ive been very successful over the years deer hunting with a remington 7400 30-06 and a 7600 .243. Use what you are comfortable with. Of course a good set of optics and mounts are the key and find which ammo works best in that particular gun.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

A .270 with open sights will still shoot so I'm a bit confused by your question?
You saying you have two rifles, one a pump and other a bolt?
Want to put a new scope on which make, model and barrel length?
If you had two rifles exact same length but just different actions the 'reach' would be the same.
A bolt action .223 won't shoot any farther than an Ar15 just maybe a bit more accurately although some semis are tack drivers. But that's another thread.
Traditionally bolt action guns have always been the go to style for supreme accuracy but lately as I said some semi auto guns made nowadays as every bit as accurate. It's really a mental thing for target shooters. The lessor amount of things that touch the case or bullet before it goes in the chamber the more accurate that round is gonna be. This is why serious target shooter hand load each round into the rifle rather than allowing bolt to drag it out of an internal magazine. Like Remington 700s. They have an internal magazine but most folks will slowly roll each round into gun and slowly push it forward into chamber. A semi auto can be quite rough on each round as it strips it off the feed lips on mag and shoves it up feed ramp and into chamber. This is another reason why a bolt will be more accurate. You can use hand loads in bolts action guns but have to be careful when using them in a semi auto. Unless you put a harder crimp on the bullet it can actually get pushed back into case during feeding. Even a few thousandths back can increase case pressure to dangerous levels. Slowly pushing a hand load into a bolt gun doesn't do that. Hand loaders like to crimp their rounds just barely enough to hold it well but not too much. The easier it releases from the case the more accurate that round will be. Another reason is overall case length. On bolt guns you can size your round to exactly meet forcing cone and rifling in chamber. After a few tries and a marker you can size the rounds to where when fed into gun the rifling just barely marks the bullet shoulders. Now the round is set perfectly and sized properly to be the most accurate it can be. There will be no 'jump' from case into rifling. On semi auto guns and pump guns you have to watch overall case length in order to achieve proper function.
So as far as accuracy goes I'd say two equal weapons in caliber and barrel length just diff in action will most likely be the same. But the Bolt gun will have capability of being tuned into a proper target rifle by matching ammo or hand loading perfect size rounds for it.

Did that answer your question? If not sorry, I'm a bit imbibed and rambled on.....

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

 

[twotonevert]

Thanks for the replies guys. lankee, I am very comfortable with this rifle, it was my first high power rifle.

Blanca, you hit the nail on the head. It is my only rifle at this time, and I like to challenge myself with long range shots. I think I will go ahead and get a nice scope for it and not worry about purchasing another rifle. The old Gibsons scope has to go. Anyone remember those?

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[masterblaster]

I also have a Rem 7400 in 270, I prefer my Win Mod 70 featherweight 30-06 for hunting large game though. For target I use the Savage 10 FP 308 and 10 P 223, both are dime sized shooters at 100yds out of the box. Tonight I just finished my new Rem 700 SPS build, Choate tactical stock, Sightron 6-25 mildot, with a CDI bottom metal kit and 4 10 rnd AI mags to go with it. Most of my shooting is bench rest target shooting, I used to shoot long range out to 1000 yds but lack of longer range ranges here in south Fla has put a damper on that. I also mess around with the 300 magnum as well as a 300 WSM but as I age I cant take the beating for an all day shoot with these cannons. I have a M1a, great rifle, love it as a battle instrument and just plane old fashioned marksmanship shooting with iron sights. Now to your question, if by accurate you mean can which one will group 3-5 inches at 300 yards , in reality and by my experience, both will have no problem doing that with you average out of the box rifle and decent optic, the limiting factor will be you. If you are looking to get the groups below an inch at 300 yards go with a Savage 308 bolt gun with a heavy bbl (like the 10 FP variant). The 270 is a great round and can take out any big game in N America, it is a popular rifle amongst the Eskimos so you should have no issue with what you have.

Another thing, I just bought a $ 200 Bushnell Elite 10x scope with mildot reticule, for the money its the best scope I bought that will be used for under 500 yards. Great glass for morning and night (EENT, EEMT).

Bushnell Elite 3200 Tactical Rifle Scope 10x 40mm 1/10 Mil Adjustments


I also prefer the moniker of Rifle aficionado not Rifle nut, been collecting and building these rifles over a period of 34 yearsand shooting for over 40.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Thanks for the replies guys. lankee, I am very comfortable with this rifle, it was my first high power rifle.

Blanca, you hit the nail on the head. It is my only rifle at this time, and I like to challenge myself with long range shots. I think I will go ahead and get a nice scope for it and not worry about purchasing another rifle. The old Gibsons scope has to go. Anyone remember those?

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Sooooooo......what kind of rifle is it......make, model and barrel length.....for us gun nuts please

 

[twotonevert]

Thank you blaster. That helps a lot. You have given me more to think about. The .308 is my favorite round.

Blanca, its a Remington Gamemaster 760. The .270 was only made for a year or so, build date around 1953.

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[masterblaster]

Not a prob, a little unsolicited advice, save that 70, coat it in Mobil synthetic grease put rifle sock over it and shrink wrap it and leave in the safe for your grand kids.

Thank you blaster. That helps a lot. You have given me more to think about. The .308 is my favorite round.

Blanca, its a Remington Gamemaster 760. The .270 was only made for a year or so, build date around 1953.

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[lankeeyankee]

What will be the main purpose of your future long range shooter?
Budget also helps with the decision
for long range coyote hunting the Savage LV25 is IMO the best bang for the buck, long bull barrel, accu trigger kix azz!! I am shooting Hornady VMAX bullets and this thing will shoot a parasite off a nats azz at 200 yards!! Since I spent a big chunk on the gun the left over money went with a Redfield 4X12 scope. Redfield optics are Leupolds just dont have the fancy gold rings. Holding it side by side with a 1200.00 Ziess I couldnt see the 900.00 difference. I am happy with the gun so far and I am 100% on kills with it.

The only complaint I have is, its a heavy gun. If I could do over for a coyote gun I would go with an AR-10

 

[twotonevert]

What will be the main purpose of your future long range shooter?
Budget also helps with the decision
for long range coyote hunting the Savage LV25 is IMO the best bang for the buck, long bull barrel, accu trigger kix azz!! I am shooting Hornady VMAX bullets and this thing will shoot a parasite off a nats azz at 200 yards!! Since I spent a big chunk on the gun the left over money went with a Redfield 4X12 scope. Redfield optics are Leupolds just dont have the fancy gold rings. Holding it side by side with a 1200.00 Ziess I couldnt see the 900.00 difference. I am happy with the gun so far and I am 100% on kills with it.

The only complaint I have is, its a heavy gun. If I could do over for a coyote gun I would go with an AR-10

I dont have a real purpose in mind. Maybe an occasional prarie dog hunt, used to shoot around 350 yards for em. I dont plan to use the 270 for that though, I cant shoot this rifle all day, it kicks too hard. Seriously, it kicks harder than any rifle I have ever shot. If I buy a rifle, it will be the Savage .308, but I didnt know they had a bull barrel. That would be sweet.

 

[twotonevert]

Not a prob, a little unsolicited advice, save that 70, coat it in Mobil synthetic grease put rifle sock over it and shrink wrap it and leave in the safe for your grand kids.

Hmm, never thought about that. I wish it was in better shape. My dad didnt take very good care of it and since he has passed I have cleaned it up as best I can and keep a fresh coat of oil on it. I would like to have a another magazine for it as I only have one.

 

[chrisjp]

my sling shot works great (preparing for all the upcoming bans and still be able to feed my family)

 

[twotonevert]

my sling shot works great (preparing for all the upcoming bans and still be able to feed my family)

You could put an eye out with that.

 

[captain]

James, if your wanting to do something affordable for target practice and if needed shoot a critter for dinner too you might look at Savage 17 hmr... I thought this video was fun... When we get er all sighted in this good I will be ready...

 

[StromBusa]

A bolt rifle sits on the rest better for target shooting, less movement required between rounds.

 

[twotonevert]

Mmm...

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[Blanca BusaLess]

Thank you blaster. That helps a lot. You have given me more to think about. The .308 is my favorite round.

Blanca, its a Remington Gamemaster 760. The .270 was only made for a year or so, build date around 1953.

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You say something about a magazine?

Magazine, 30-06, 270, 25-06, 35 Whelen, 4 Round, New Style w/ Plastic Floorplate Gun Parts | 196830A | Numrich Gun Parts

 

[GsxrBots]

That .270 shouldn't kick bad at all. Weird..

Now the real question lies in the fact does the pump action rifle use a tube magazine? If so, that is the most detrimental to your long range accuracy. The .270 round is plenty good for long yardage.. The problem with tube fed magazines (like lever actions, etc) is that the bullet tip is shoved up against the casing on the next bullet causing a divot or a dent to occur on the tip of the bullet. This greatly disturbs long range accuracy. This is why Hornady came up with the LeverEvolution rounds with a soft plastic tip that won't dent or divot..

If you load your pump gun one at a time, there is really no need to upgrade to a new rifle assuming the barrel is up to par, etc...

 

[GsxrBots]

It appears after looking up that pump rifle that you have a magazine, so that shouldn't be an issue at all..

 

[DevilDawg1]

A .270 with open sights will still shoot so I'm a bit confused by your question?
You saying you have two rifles, one a pump and other a bolt?
Want to put a new scope on which make, model and barrel length?
If you had two rifles exact same length but just different actions the 'reach' would be the same.
A bolt action .223 won't shoot any farther than an Ar15 just maybe a bit more accurately although some semis are tack drivers. But that's another thread.
Traditionally bolt action guns have always been the go to style for supreme accuracy but lately as I said some semi auto guns made nowadays as every bit as accurate. It's really a mental thing for target shooters. The lessor amount of things that touch the case or bullet before it goes in the chamber the more accurate that round is gonna be. This is why serious target shooter hand load each round into the rifle rather than allowing bolt to drag it out of an internal magazine. Like Remington 700s. They have an internal magazine but most folks will slowly roll each round into gun and slowly push it forward into chamber. A semi auto can be quite rough on each round as it strips it off the feed lips on mag and shoves it up feed ramp and into chamber. This is another reason why a bolt will be more accurate. You can use hand loads in bolts action guns but have to be careful when using them in a semi auto. Unless you put a harder crimp on the bullet it can actually get pushed back into case during feeding. Even a few thousandths back can increase case pressure to dangerous levels. Slowly pushing a hand load into a bolt gun doesn't do that. Hand loaders like to crimp their rounds just barely enough to hold it well but not too much. The easier it releases from the case the more accurate that round will be. Another reason is overall case length. On bolt guns you can size your round to exactly meet forcing cone and rifling in chamber. After a few tries and a marker you can size the rounds to where when fed into gun the rifling just barely marks the bullet shoulders. Now the round is set perfectly and sized properly to be the most accurate it can be. There will be no 'jump' from case into rifling. On semi auto guns and pump guns you have to watch overall case length in order to achieve proper function.
So as far as accuracy goes I'd say two equal weapons in caliber and barrel length just diff in action will most likely be the same. But the Bolt gun will have capability of being tuned into a proper target rifle by matching ammo or hand loading perfect size rounds for it.

Did that answer your question? If not sorry, I'm a bit imbibed and rambled on.....

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

ditto Blanca.

Bolt actions are traditionally more accurate. But the semis have really come along way with their accuracy.

To the OP, set up your weapon and practice, you will be fine. The .270 you mention is an excellent choice. One reason people prefer the .308 is the cost of ammunition. It is significantly cheaper than the .270 as far as
dead on accuracy you will need a quality box of the .308 ammo. As far as high quality ammo, the .270 is not that much more expensive. Good luck, keep us posted, and most of all be safe.