99 Busa and Mr Turbo Improvements

[65Cobra]

I have a '99 Busa with a Mr Turbo setup I purchased in 2000, that came with an FF40 Rajay. I've searched various forums and read as many posts, or should I say complaints, as I could about his system, but I don't want to start over, just improve it. I finished some engine mods with the help of APE (studs, gaskets, one piece clutch cam, valve springs, titanium retainers, etc), added a Emtes Mechanical Oil Scavenge pump from NLR, and picked up an E-Compressor and Impeller in excellent condition for $96. I'm now adding a bung for an O2 Sensor so I can create my own map, for the now EF40 turbo, on a dyno.

In the meantime, there have been hints about other ways to improve his system, and considering I have an early kit (7 years old), I'm probably a prime candidate. BTW, at this point I'm thinking more in terms of reliability and ride ability, than performance.

The only area I haven't touched is the fuel system. Several posts mention the Mr Turbo system uses a 1:1 regulator and suggest upgrading to a "rising rate regulator". I'm not sure what the limiting factors of his 1:1 regulator are, nor the advantages of using a rising rate regulator, so I'm lost. But I did read other comments, such as one from 2003 that "the Achilles heel of the [Velocity] Stage 1 (and Hahn) are their rising rate regulators", and elsewhere from someone who mentioned a "2 way adjustable for base pressure and rate of rise", which I'm guessing also referd to a rising rate regulator. At this point I don't know where to go with this or what to purchase. Can anyone give me more information?

Thanks.

Dave

 

[zaney]

Dave, I have the same kit since 2001 . At 12# boost PC.@ 100% it made 246hp for the last 4 years. I changed the exaust it leaned out and took out all 4 pistons. After Getting it back together I have changed to an aeromotive adj.regulator and blackbird injectors. I,m trying to keep the electronics to a minimum. I drive on the streets alot.If I still need more fuel I try larger injectors, s2000,or mps`s 62# and let the pwcmdr control it.I`ll get back after breakin and remap. zane

 

[65Cobra]

Thanks for the info Zane... sorry about the problem you had, but your comment was certainly welcome since I planned to change to a banana pipe at some point. At least now I know to readjust the mixture. Are you still using the original fuel pump that came from Mr Turbo? If you have them handy, I'd appreciate the part numbers for the Aeromotive regulator and Blackbird injectors. I'm thinking of getting an A/F meter with a Wide Band O2 Sensor from Inovate Motorsports. Please keep me posted. Dave

 

[kawiboy11]

I have a '99 Busa with a Mr Turbo setup I purchased in 2000, that came with an FF40 Rajay. I've searched various forums and read as many posts, or should I say complaints, as I could about his system, but I don't want to start over, just improve it. I finished some engine mods with the help of APE (studs, gaskets, one piece clutch cam, valve springs, titanium retainers, etc), added a Emtes Mechanical Oil Scavenge pump from NLR, and picked up an E-Compressor and Impeller in excellent condition for $96. I'm now adding a bung for an O2 Sensor so I can create my own map, for the now EF40 turbo, on a dyno.

In the meantime, there have been hints about other ways to improve his system, and considering I have an early kit (7 years old), I'm probably a prime candidate. BTW, at this point I'm thinking more in terms of reliability and ride ability, than performance.

The only area I haven't touched is the fuel system. Several posts mention the Mr Turbo system uses a 1:1 regulator and suggest upgrading to a "rising rate regulator". I'm not sure what the limiting factors of his 1:1 regulator are, nor the advantages of using a rising rate regulator, so I'm lost. But I did read other comments, such as one from 2003 that "the Achilles heel of the [Velocity] Stage 1 (and Hahn) are their rising rate regulators", and elsewhere from someone who mentioned a "2 way adjustable for base pressure and rate of rise", which I'm guessing also referd to a rising rate regulator. At this point I don't know where to go with this or what to purchase. Can anyone give me more information?

Thanks.

Dave

Ask Steve from Smithers, I originally purchased the aureomotive 1 to 1 regulator, Steve immediately told me to get rid of it & buy the Rising Rate Regulator from Richard as RCC.

 

[65Cobra]

Kawiboy11, I had contacted Richard at RCC who told me he makes his own stand alone regulator but they(*) are not really intended for more than 10 psi of boost, saying that's where the rising rate regulator gets its bad name from, when people try to push it past the limits it was designed for. He said if I was going over 10 psi, I should use 4 extra injectors in the plenum, a 1:1 regulator and a secondary fuel controller for those injectors.

I needed to get back to him with questions, but lost track of time when I realized this bike wasn't going to get done before next spring. I'm not sure when he said "they", whether he meant "his" or "all" rising rate regulators, regardless who manufacturers them. I also don't understand the 10psi limit and how that affects the regulator. I'm also not sure what he means when he says "secondary fuel controller" and is that something that is going to cost me an arm and a leg. I've read elsewhere that the stock injectors are good to 300hp, which would require more than 10psi of boost. Everyone has their own opinion, which is perfectly fine, but when I try to put it all together, that's when I find myself not knowing what to do. Thanks.

Dave

 

[turbojonn]

I have a mr turbo system and a 99 Busa. The turbo system (what's left of it) is in a box in my garage. It worked ok until the shaft broke and took out the turbo. These systems do work, but aren't terribly efficient (in my opinion). They get hot. The don't flow well in their off the shelf from, so be sure to let the bike idle for an honest two minutes after you ride.
If you want a good patch to the 1 to 1, which will burn up your top end when you try to get more out of it, then switch to a bosch fuel pump or and equivalent with a begi rising rate regulator. They're a ***** to set, but compared to a secondary system, it's the second best solution. Secondaries are for sure the way you should go, but I know they are expensive. You could get a begi rising rate regulator and bosch fuel pump for roughly 500.00, and set it at 43 psi static and have it rise such that it will keep the a/f fat on boost. Mine was fine to 285 hp with stock injectors. However, for roughly 1000 more you can get a secondary system (Hahn port fueler) which includes the controller, 4 injectors and the spacer that holds the injectors. Install it, tune, and be done. Then as you build your motor up you can simply turn the fuel up as you go.
What I should say though is that if you stick with Richard at RCC you can't go wrong. The Hahn thing is cool, but you don't get the know how of Richard to back you up with tuning and troubleshooting. That guy knows his stuff and is indisputably a shooting star on the way up in this industry. If you buy the Hahn it may be a little cheaper than getting a new plenum and secondaries, but if you just get the whole ting from Richard you'll have no headaches and tons of customer support and know how.
By the way, if you're running the Mr. Turbo full exhaust, take a look at the 2.5 to 2 inch reduction where the canister meets the pipe, and the 2 inch baffle and exit that the exhaust must run through. It is very restrictive so if you change out the pipe be very careful to re-map your system.

 

[turbojonn]

If you ever have the system apart again maybe you can get the header cleaned up too. At least check it to see what it looks like inside. I was surprised to see what mine looked like inside. The irregularity and inconsistency in the shape and size of the individual pipes can NOT be good for piston temps and tuning.

 

[smitherscustoms]

I agree with most of the statements made above.In addition:
alot of "newer" hybrid turbos will make 300+ HP at 10psi or less  With a good quality Bosch pump & FMU properly set up & tuned with larger injectors.The Rayjay will probly make 245-265 @ 10psi.If you are wanting to turn up your boost with that turbo I personally recommend a secondary fuel controller & injectors.the easiest way for your set up,would be the hahn portfueler set-up,this way you wont have to get a new plenum (airbox).And you can run a good quality Reg without the use of a fmu.Also,maby think about water injection.

 

[kawiboy11]

Kawiboy11, I had contacted Richard at RCC who told me he makes his own stand alone regulator but they(*) are not really intended for more than 10 psi of boost, saying that's where the rising rate regulator gets its bad name from, when people try to push it past the limits it was designed for. He said if I was going over 10 psi, I should use 4 extra injectors in the plenum, a 1:1 regulator and a secondary fuel controller for those injectors.

I needed to get back to him with questions, but lost track of time when I realized this bike wasn't going to get done before next spring. I'm not sure when he said "they", whether he meant "his" or "all" rising rate regulators, regardless who manufacturers them. I also don't understand the 10psi limit and how that affects the regulator. I'm also not sure what he means when he says "secondary fuel controller" and is that something that is going to cost me an arm and a leg. I've read elsewhere that the stock injectors are good to 300hp, which would require more than 10psi of boost. Everyone has their own opinion, which is perfectly fine, but when I try to put it all together, that's when I find myself not knowing what to do. Thanks.

Dave

Ah.....that makes sense, I'm not running that high of boost, I can only run 5.2 lbs of boost with my turbo, anymore it makes to much power for my stock engine. Thanks for the information!

 

[zaney]

Dave just getting back to let you know I went to RCC`sfuel rail&MPS 62#injectors. Got it to make 296hp and 203ft#torque@8000rpm`s where the stock rayjay ran out of its efficientcy range. Guess I need a bigger turbo. zane

 

[cdhoroho]

I agree with most of the statements made above.In addition:
alot of "newer" hybrid turbos will make 300+ HP at 10psi or less  With a good quality Bosch pump & FMU properly set up & tuned with larger injectors.The Rayjay will probly make 245-265 @ 10psi.If you are wanting to turn up your boost with that turbo I personally recommend a secondary fuel controller & injectors.the easiest way for your set up,would be the hahn portfueler set-up,this way you wont have to get a new plenum (airbox).And you can run a good quality Reg without the use of a fmu.Also,maby think about water injection.

theres always the possibility of modifyin his plenum
its not that hard to do
and to be honest i dont like some of the small design flaws of the port fueler
i myself like the controll of the megasquirt as a secondary

i agree with what is mostly being said i feel secondaries is a better way to go then an fmu
and a 1:1 shouldnt be ran on a turbo without secondaries or a standalone ecu IMHO

 

[65Cobra]

Thanks for all the posts. In the past 6 months I've learned a lot about the individual components and how they work... knowing the how and why is key to understanding what I'm doing so I don't make any more mistakes. I went with the better Bosch pump and Begi FMU. Although I'll always want more power, this should keep me content while keeping the bike manageable for the street without going into too much expense. I still need more information but the questions are scattered. Those are coming up next...

 

[65Cobra]

I thought about making separate posts since this involves multiple issues, but then I decided otherwise since they all deal with Mr Turbo improvements...

The heat shield in my Rajay unit is steel. It looks like two sandwiched pieces spot welded around the outside edge. It looks to be in good condition but apparently they can come apart. I know a good TIG welder and thought about reinforcing the current shield but I'm concerned it will throw the unit out of balance and cause more problems. Otherwise, I heard there are one piece shields. Any comments, or does anyone know where I can get a one piece?

The oil pressure line from the block to the top of the Turbo is still the Mr Turbo unit. Although it has a working in-line check valve, the check valve body alone is 2-1/2" long. With a pipe to hose barb fitting on each end, there is a 5" unbendable section in the center of this hose which creates issues when trying to route the line. I'd like to replace it with a shorter check valve unit, not only to make the line more manueverable, but I planned to reroute the 1/4" ID line from the left side of the motor, instead of the right side. Someone else made this suggestion since the run would be a shorter and that area has less heat. Anyone have any recommendations for what to use? I'm placing an order with McMaster-Carr in case they have one that will work but I can just buy one from wherever.

I removed the header for inspection. I plan to clean up the inside welds, add an O2 bung and have the header cermachromed. I also plan to redo the exhaust mainly for looks, but also to minimize restrictions in the current setup (see above pics from turbojohn). Although I have mixed feelings about a banana pipe, it would be the cheaper way to go. I assume there is no baffle inside a banana pipe? This also ties into the wastegate which was bolted to a short section of (1-3/8" ID) pipe that comes off the right side of the header collector at a 90 degree angle. The wastegate has no markings at all so I can't identify it unless maybe if I take it apart. The outlet is just an open (1/2" x 1-3/4" minimum) rectangular area, that expells the exhaust directly into the air so it must be installed with the opening pointing straight down. The lack of an exit pipe for the wastegate and boost creep are my main concerns. I can post a picture of the unit if it will help. I'm trying to decide where to go with all this so feel free to comment. Does the O2 bung get installed before or after the turbo and where should I mount it. What should I do about the wastegate because if I have to modify the header, now is the time.

The Rajay exhaust/turbine housing was chrome plated although it is now rusting. My thoughts where to have it bead blasted and cermachromed but since this is a high source of heat, I'm not sure if that would be sufficient. Also, would it make more sense to coat it black or silver?

The Mr Turbo plenum is a fairly nice looking two peice unit with top and bottom sections that bolt together. It does have two problems however. The inlet is on the top so it interferes when closing the tank, and the size of the plenum could be larger. I thought about modifying the plenum by moving the inlet from the top to the front. I could do this by constucting a rectangular shaped mid-section that sandwiches between the current top and bottom sections. The mid-section would be 2-1/4" high allowing enough room to weld a new (2" OD) inlet connector. Any comments or other suggestions would be welcome.

Finally, can anyone explain to me what a Blow-Off Valve is? Apparently this is something installed on the plenum so it's not the same as a wastegate, but I'm trying to get additional information so I can see if this is something I should add or change on my setup.

Sorry for the long post. If I missed anything let me know. Again, thanks for all the help so far. Dave

 

[rocketgeezer]

Dave I think we have e-mailed on this before but I will answer what I can, if your heat shield is not causing any problems leave it be, do whatever you want with the oil line just keep the ck valve as close to the turbo as posable, the cermichrome header would be ok but the 02 goes in the exaust, banana, dump pipe where it comes out of the turbo housing put it at least 6 to8 inches from the flange, personaly I prefer the dump pipe they are not that load, maybe just a bit loader than a sportbike with a 4 into 1 system,the turbo housing generaly has no coating at all it will almost always burn off dont know about cermichrome never tryed it, send some pics on the wastgate it would help, dont know exactly what you mean, do whatever you want to the plemum overall size is not that big a deal just be absolutly sure its sealed up no boost leaks (would be bad for turbo), a blowoff valve releases intake pressure when you backoff the throttle, it generaly goes on the up pipe or plenum the reason for this is when you close the throttle of a turbo motor that is under boost, the higher the boost pres the worse the problem, the intake pres has nowhere to go it just trys to back up and go out the turbo air intake, except at low boost pressures this is not a problem and if your only going to run 5-6psi boost its nothing to worry about, if I can help any more post back or PM me if you want

 

[65Cobra]

Here are pics of the original wastegate that came with my Mr Turbo kit. I've seen others comment how Mr Turbo kits are susceptable to boost creep but I have no idea if I ever had that issue or not. On the other hand I never made any adjustments to this unit, just assumed it was set to 7-8 lbs boost like his literature states. As far as I know, it could be set to 2. Is there an easy way to check what the current setting is?

 

[65Cobra]

Picture #2

 

[65Cobra]

Picture #3