Woohoo, Got the LAND finally!! now got a few??

[NCBusa2001]

Since I value the board’s opinions more than most people, I thought I might be able to bounce a few ideas off the board, if that would be alright. What I need is reality checks from anyone who has built or help build their own home. I know what I want. I think I know how to physically build it. I’m just not exactly sure of what steps need to be undertaken. Let me clarify.

The land purchase that I mentioned in a previous post is all but finalized. The survey is complete, now just the final paperwork. We can’t wait. We have been going there on our days off riding ATV’s, but most of all planning. House location/clearing (figure 3 acre square with a tall “wind row†of trees pushed out as a perimeter) and drive way route APPEAR to be fairly straight forward. A D-4 should be able to do it but a D-6 would be better. The timber was cut in 1992 and all the current trees are mostly pine and of less than 6†diameter. Ground is clay/sand and QUARTZ (Not sure if quartz is significant?

?)

I have researched the building materials and can visualize the house in my head. Kim and I have drawn out the floor plan to exacting details on graph paper pasted on to presentation board. I assume I just can’t take it to the County courthouse walk up to the first person and say “If you build it he will comeâ€. I figure I need to go to someone first to get it on “official looking†blueprint paper, but who?

The house will be fairly simplistic, a two story rectangle with two entrances and four exits, plus windows (KISS). Basically, from the ground up, I plan on using a 6†concrete slab with backup plumbing and electrical penetrations. The walls will be ICF (insulated concrete forms) 18 feet tall with an 8 inch concrete core. All of the windows will be one piece units, pre-built by me, and slid in after the final pour. Since the ICF can be cut and poured on an angle, the 8†concrete vertical slab will extend up the gable ends to the peak.

That where I’m a little stuck. What I would like to do is have a central beam running from one gable peak, 56 feet to the other gable peak (is this cost effective/possible?). Then have 4x6 rough cut joists connecting the top plate of the wall to the beam above and secured with hurricane straps. Topping the joists are 5/4 x 6†tongue and groove (not sure on code here), then felt paper, then heavy gauge metal roofing attached with screws. Now I’m pretty sure that plan is structurally sound (except for the 1x6 thing).

What I need help with is designing a 10x10 foot “deck†at the roof peak in the center of the roof line, for sunset watching (hey I’m guessing it will be 40 feet high). Who do I see for structural design an Architect, engineer, blue printer, contractor, who?

??? Next problem is getting up there. I’m figuring a spiral staircase from the loft below would be the cheapest way up there, Am I wrong?

The second floor will be engineered structural I-beams with ¾â€ OSB, padding and carpet. Any cheaper method?

Walls will be traditional stud construction with drywall and paint. The inside surface of the ICF on the exterior wall APPEARS to be a dream to work with. They use a chain saw with a “depth adjustor†roller attached, and cut channels in the plastic for all the plumbing and electrical. All of that I feel very comfortable with?

Kitchen, baths, cabinets, closets and other general labor I have pretty much covered. Plumbing/septic, HVAC and final electrical hookups will be subbed out to people who know EXACTLY what they are doing. Planning on using a combination of wood and a gas pack. I’m trying to minimize any electrical drain, so as many appliances as possible will be gas.

I have no clue what to do with the exterior (might start a poll). I know I DON’T want vinyl, brick or wood. What does that leave? Stucco or stone (which I can’t afford), are there any other options. Keep in mind I’m thinking cheap. The exterior walls are 56 feet long and 18 feet high, on the long side. And 40 feet wide and probably 30-40 feet a the tapered peak. That’s a lot of surface area. What is the easiest, cheapest, simplest, and most durable covering available?

?

Sorry for so long of a post but I’m just starting down a long road. I’m trying to avoid any wrong turns. Please feel free to post if you have any suggestions. I know its “legal†for a person to build their own home in theory.
It just seems that there are so many hoops to jump through that most people don’t even bother. But then people who ride Busas aren’t like most people. Thanks in advance for your comments, Chris

 

[NCBusa2001]

Almost forgot, Here is a pic of the land. Nifty.

 

[NCBusa2001]

Here is a close up of the land and proposed site and driveway. Chris

 

[monsterspeedfreak]

Congrats dude...save up some $$$$ for that driveway...she gonna cost!!

 

[NCBusa2001]

I have a connection with some heavy equipment. Figure push a rough road through, and then box blade it. Kim and I both have 4 wheel drives and might get to use them now

Figure crush and run in the long term, but thats some dough.

Chris

 

[monsterspeedfreak]

Well the equipment will deffinately lessen the burden anyway!!

 

[phatjoe]

Sweet congrats NCBUSA ima buy a house someday when i grow up and get married.......................

 

[PACIFICBUSA]

that's a big piece of land....

I'm think small twisty racetrack...

 

[justintime2]

Not sure on all the other Q's but I do have a suggestion...put in a fire sprinkler system. Hollywood and the movies make us FF's look better than we are. We don't save people from burning to death, sprinklers do. They don't cost much to install when you are in the building phase and most insurance companies give you a good break on rates for having them. If you look at the alarm cycle that has to run it's course before we even get to work on your home, or you, it becomes obvious. Fire starts (you can be home or not), someone finally notices and reports, dispatcher gathers info and sends out pager tones for that district, stations receive tones, get into bunker gear and get the apparatus moving, get info while enroute, travel time, arrive on scene, do a walk around 360 for a size up, give the size up, initiate or pass command, FF accountability set-up, develop a plan, execute the plan. All this happens before you are even considered for a rescue. The above outline also doesn't take into account any annomolies enroute like can't find the address, not enough personell from what may be an all volunteer station, or you may not have a hydrant near by which means a water shuttle operation has to begin before anymore water than the truck carries (500-3000 gallons which is gone in a blink) can be put on the fire. Now consider that most light weight construction homes have only 5 mins of burn time on the wood part of the structure before we are unable to enter as collapse is generally eminent. Do you think the FF's can accomplish all of the above before this time has already elapsed? Probably not and you would be dead long before the collapse happen anyway. Also clearly mark your driveway entrance with reflective decals visible from both sides of the street. Don't mean to sound like your dad or anything but is something you should consider while designing this. One day it could save you or your family.

 

[justintime2]

Oh yeah...I like the race track idea too!

 

[Mikey D]

We just finished putting a 1680 foot addition onto our house.  Here's a couple of thoughts...

56 IMHO is way too long for any kind of wooden beam, yer prolly gonna need a steel I beam for that kind of span.  That is unless you are going to use a few posts inbetween.

If you use posts, you need to pour a footer for the posts (in the slab). That would be a (roughly and in my case) 2' x 2' square pad of concrete, 18" deep (in my case) to support the weight of the posts.

Another option instead of a solid beam running peak to peak is to use trusses.  This would make the two long walls the load bearing walls, instead of the 56' long beam.  You can get trusses built any way you need and the truss company will do the load calcs. for you.  This would also solve your sky deck dilemma since you could get 6 of the trusses built with a pitched roof on either side and a 1/4 - 12 pitch for the floor of your deck. 6 trusses spaced 2' on center would give you a 10 foot long deck.

I got 17 trusses with a 26 foot span + 2' eves for about $800

Take into consideration how you will enter your sky deck.  If you have a trap door in the floor, it will waste some floor space and (in the future) wind up giving you some weather sealing issues.  If the pitch on your roof is enough, why not put a door into the area that forms the wall when you section the roof?

For the roof, code here in Arizona is (if I remember correctly) 7/16 OSB with felt and asphalt shingles.  Trusses on 2' centers handles this.  In your area the code might be heavier cause of the snow load.  OSB works fine for roofs.  5/4 t&g would be cool, but will be very expensive and may be overkill.  The only way I'd personally consider it is if I was going to make a dormer room (attic) and would be using the t&g as a visable ceiling. In which case you wouldn't get much inslulation.

These days a stucko wall is pretty easy, cheap, and durable.  It will not rot away but it is not at all impact resistant.  A baseball will crack it.  It is usually applied over a foam panel base (in your case the ICF will provide the base) to which chicken wire is stapled.  The chiken wire will provide sumptin for the stucko to adhere to.  It is then of course painted.  Looks good, repairs easily.  Another advantage is by stapling (or gluing) blocks of foam around windows, eves etc... you can easily and inexpensively add archetuctural elements (pretty and fancy details) to your home.

I personally went with T111 siding as that is what the primary house was sheathed in.  When I'm rich and have the time, I will definately be doing the stucco thing.

I used the "Quiet floor" structural I beams on my second floor.  I'm not sure if you are talking about the wooden ones or the steel truss ones.  I had good luck with the wooden ones, they went in easily (be sure to block the ends) and I could trim them to fit exactly.

Sorry for the long replay, I get carried away some times.

 

[NCBusa2001]

Thank you so much for your comments.

Justintime- Sprinkler system is a must, I agree.

Mikey-Thanks for your insight. I've thought about the enginered truss system, OSB, felt and shingles, but guessed that he T&G would be cheaper. Guess not.

I was planning on using the wood I-beams for the 2nd floor. Pardon, my ignorance but what do you mean by "blocking the ends". The ICF wall has an optional "brick ledge" which can support flooring (or brick on outside) loads. They (on the video) setting the flooring joists onto the ledge and toe nailing them to the ledge. Then glue and screws attach the sub-floor. Is this right?

I really really want that "sky deck" thing, but hope it won't be cost prohibitive. And yes, I was figuring on having the "trap door" entrance with a spiral staircase as an entrance.

Thanks for your advice, Chris

 

[ridercoach]

Ok Chris. Here is my .02 from a Structural Engineer. I have designed the structural aspects of many homes. Each is different and unique in its own way. Your best bet is to do one of two things. Seek a architect in your area, they know the codes and basic (sometimes more) construction of a home. They are the go to person for all things that apply to the construction. They can setup a good GC for you. If you know exactly what you want and how to get it there seek a Structrual engineering firm. A architect will send your plans out to a structrual eng. firm. The structural firm will give you all proper sizes in every aspect of the structural construction. They also know all the codes for your area. If I were in your shoes, I would definely seet the advice of a structural firm. They will charge you per sqft of the home for there service. I can almost gurantee they will save you time and money by going this route.

Dave (Coach)

 

[NCBusa2001]

Rider coach, That exactly what I needed to know. To clarify, the structural engineer generates that "official" plans that are submitted to the building inspections office, correct? I would like to have as few people involved as possible. I figure a sub to do the footer/concrete slab. Another sub to do the roof joists and roof. I plan on doing the interor walls, kitchen, bathrooms and the basic wiring and plumbing (routing not design).

I have been told that I can do the grunt work (ie routing the wiring and hooking up the switches) but an "electrical contractor" has to do the the final wiring at the panel box/hookup. Is this correct?

Thanks for your help, Chris

 

[ridercoach]

Rider coach, That exactly what I needed to know.  To clarify, the structural engineer generates that "official" plans that are submitted to the building inspections office, correct?  I would like to have as few people involved as possible.  I figure a sub to do the footer/concrete slab.  Another sub to do the roof joists and roof.  I plan on doing the interor walls, kitchen, bathrooms and the basic wiring and plumbing (routing not design).  

I have been told that I can do the grunt work (ie routing the wiring and hooking up the switches) but an "electrical contractor" has to do the the final wiring at the panel box/hookup.  Is this correct?

Thanks for your help, Chris

Yes, the structural firm will give you final prints to be submitted to the building department. But remember, you need plans for plumbing, electrical, trusses (structural might give it to you), and maybe others depending on codes. Here is the key, get the structural firm to do the plans (they really aren't all that expensive) pay extra to get the cad drawings (if that is there policy) take those drawings and give them to a electrical eng, plumbing, and mechanical (if needed). They will all add there parts up to snuff with your codes. Then you have a complete set of plans that if they do fail for the permit, then they are responsible to correct them so you can obtain a permit. I understand you do not want to get many people involved thats why it can be a good idea to get a architect involved to do the work of the plans, they know all correct procedures in your area and can give you a final package to take to the building department. It couldn't hurt to get a free consultation to see the cost. I wish I knew someone up there and was able to get you a break.

As far as final hook up of the electrical at the box, they require an electrical permit w/ plans. Any one can hook up the box, there will be an inspection on the installation. I highly recommend an electrical contractor, just for safety reasons unless you have done a few in the past. Then again that is the way it is in South Florida. May be different up there.

I hope this helps. Please let me know if I can do anything for you.

 

[S7R4NGER]

My advice: hire an architect

 

[Mikey D]

Thank you so much for your comments.  

Justintime- Sprinkler system is a must, I agree.  

Mikey-Thanks for your insight.  I've thought about the enginered truss system, OSB, felt and shingles, but guessed that he T&G would be cheaper.  Guess not.  

I was planning on using the wood I-beams for the 2nd floor.  Pardon, my ignorance but what do you mean by "blocking the ends".  The ICF wall has an optional "brick ledge" which can support flooring (or brick on outside) loads.  They (on the video) setting the flooring joists onto the ledge and toe nailing them to the ledge.  Then glue and screws attach the sub-floor.  Is this right?  

I really really want that "sky deck" thing, but hope it won't be cost prohibitive.  And yes, I was figuring on having the "trap door" entrance with a spiral staircase as an entrance.  

Thanks for your advice,  Chris

Blocking the ends of the wooden floor beams is when you nail a (usually 2x6) block vertically on each side of the I beam to the top plate of the wall, and then one flat at the height of the sub floor in between the top edges of the 2 x 6's. and one at the bottom between the 2x6's on top of the top plate of the first floor wall.

This basicaly creates a box of 2 x 6's at each end of the floor beam. This prevents the top of the I beams from swaying back and forth, and keeps the bottoms where they should be. Pretty simple to do and makes the floor much, much stronger. It is done at both ends of the floor beams

Definately glue and screw the sub floor. I used liquid nails and it worked great. The glue is there to prevent creaking.
I think the sky deck idea is really cool. shouldn't add too muc more to the cost of the hime and definately would add to it's value.