Wideband question

[Dark3]

So im getting ready to pull the trigger on a contoller/gauge kit. Ive done alot of research based around a few main concerns. Price, water resistance, and turbo applicability later on

Most important to me- water resistance. The only gauge i can find that claims water resistance is the innovate mtx-l. Its the gauge with the controller built into the gauge housing and can be had for 160 for the whole kit. It appears to have the best bang for the buck. The comparable set up from zeitronix would be the zt3/zr1. It IS NOT water resistant and can be had for around 200.

When it comes to what will be needed for monitoring data for boost like pressure and such, i am not sure so thats why im asking. Neither one of the above setups have the additional inputs for boost pressure like a zt-2 has. That set up is also near 400 bucks and not water resistant.

I also dont have ecu editor yet and still have a pcv but will be switching over soon to the log box.

So i guess my questions are...

If i go with the single input mtx-l, when I boost the bike later down the road, will i be fine with this set up (minus obvious ad of separate boost guage, fuel pressure ect) or is the secondary type inputs of the zt2 style controllers needed for something?

And

When I ad ecu editor will it draw rpm data to overlay on AFR for tuning use?

Thanks guys

 

[Kevin Jones]

I need to know this too. I have researched zeitronix, add ons for the PC5 I have, WEGO and a couple others. What you say is absolutely true. A basic wideband isn't that expensive. But when you start the add ons, gauges, hubs, etc, that gets expensive FAST. I work about 5 miles from Daytona Sensors (WEGO) and may take a trip over there, show them my bike, see what they would offer or if they will even talk to me. I definitely want a wideband. I started dabbling in 1/4 mile and want to data log and see how it is going. None of us can afford to put our bikes on the dyno often and some of it can probably be done to a point by wideband and software.

 

[cwalker2]

Is your bike a Gen I or II?

If your going with ECU Editor get the Woolich Racing harness with integral data logging capability (Do you have a Gen II with O2 sensor stock?). Then you can use the Zeitronix or NTK / Ballenger AFR500 wideband and log data from a reliable and accurate wideband.

 

[Kevin Jones]

He has GEN II I have GEN 1

 

[cwalker2]

Hi Kevin,

I'm not sure if you can log O2 on your Gen 1, you would have to check with Justin about that. The Gen II takes the wideband controller's DC signal directly into the stock harness connector (as long as the ECM is reflashed with Editor) and can log the AFR no problem.

When you're at Daytona, tell them you know me from the Busa board. They referenced my excel spread sheet/nitrous jetting calculator from the 90's on their website. They kinda bad mouth it, but it's nice to get credit for doing it a decade before anyone else (also - the misinterpreted it - LOL).

 

[Dark3]

Yes as Kevin said I have a gen 2. I will be where he is down the road a bit.
So another way of asking this question is this...what is the benefit of moving from a zt3/mtxl to a zt2 when it pertains to a boosted bike other than than reading boost and afr on the same gauge

 

[Shifty41]

Just go with a quality stand-alone and have everything in one box

 

[Dark3]

So when logging data with ecu editor, if it pulls revs from the ecu, afr from the wideband, does it pull boost overlay from the wideband controller also? If that is true and required for a good tune than that would be the answer to why as the zt2 would be required i guess or can ecu editor pull boost data from somewhere else besides a boost guage plugged into user2 input of a zt2. Sorry to hammer so many questions out, just trying to figure this out in a way i undestand and can justify paying twice as much for the zt2 over the zt3

 

[Kevin Jones]

Shifty, which stand alone are you referring to? AMS?

 

[Shifty41]

Custom build stand-alone for Hayabusa

ULTRA Interface PNP - Megasquirt based custom motorcycle ECU's and acc.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I throw in the towel on anything dynojet. I am stuck with the pc5 due to relying on tuners and dynos and what they want. If I had the knowledge, a stand alone might be the ideal thing. You think you are spending $300 on something to meet your needs but then you see the add ons and sensors and stuff start adding on, prolly puts you in ballpark of a standalone anyway.

 

[Shifty41]

So, for an even grand you get it all in one box:

Boost data / Wideband O2 data
Datalogging (built in SD card slot)
Airshifter / Killbox
Ignition retard / amplifier
Secondary fuel controller
ECU
Shift light / Autoshift

Mine even has bluetooth built in to connect wirelessly to my phone or tablet and display diagnostic engine info and digital gauges. You can even make tuning adjustments through the app on the fly.

 

[Shifty41]

I throw in the towel on anything dynojet. I am stuck with the pc5 due to relying on tuners and dynos and what they want. If I had the knowledge, a stand alone might be the ideal thing. You think you are spending $300 on something to meet your needs but then you see the add ons and sensors and stuff start adding on, prolly puts you in ballpark of a standalone anyway.

Exactly right. All the separate boxes to run a turbo bike start to really add up. Better to go stand-alone right off the bat IMO. Saves money and build complexity in the long run.

You make a good point about tuners though. Not all tuners are willing to tune all bikes even if the tuning software is pretty similar. The trick is finding a good tuner who either KNOWS your system or is willing to LEARN your system. Not exactly easy in my case.

 

[Shifty41]

Some other features I am interested in but have not implemented yet:

Closed or open loop boost control with two separate wastegate outputs, and gear or speed based tuning options (I use AMS-1000 for boost control right now)

Traction control by VSS or RPM

Rally anti-lag with rotational idle

2 or 3 step rev limiter (launch control) with no-lift shifting

Flex fuel sensor input for easy switching between gasoline and E85 – can automatically change fuel, ignition, and boost maps based on ethanol content of gasoline. (I am planning on converting to E85 and it would be nice to not have to worry about switching boost profiles on the AMS-1000 if alcohol content is low)

The full list is here:

MS3-Pro ECU Product Information Page - Megasquirt EFI

 

[Dark3]

Your cockpit looks beyond sic.

 

[Dark3]

Did any of those display units come in the 1k price tag? What software are you using to tune it?

 

[OZBooster]

Looked at those MS3 pro i think they do just about as much as my Vipec at 1/2 the price , is the PNP the same standard ?

Woolich has data cable connection from a zt3 to the denso pro box, pro box has 8 other external inputs, if your using 3 bar editor with woolich box you cant yet read the 3 bar through the bikes internal logging like you could with editor log box but use one of the 8 inputs

 

[Shifty41]

Did any of those display units come in the 1k price tag? What software are you using to tune it?

The "Display Unit" is just a standard Samsung Galaxy 8" Tablet running the ShadowDash App and the MSDroid App. The Aimsport Strada and the AMS-1000 are also not included in that price The software is TunerStudio, here is a link:

EFI Analytics TunerStudio | tunerstudio.com

Looked at those MS3 pro i think they do just about as much as my Vipec at 1/2 the price , is the PNP the same standard ?

Yes, the Interface PNP stand-alone is built on MS3 tech and uses the exact same software suite to tune. It is, essentially an MS3 Pro with a Hayabusa-specific wiring harness built for you

 

[Kevin Jones]

Shifty, I am assuming that is a ram mount in the stem holding that tablet. How comfy are you with that? For instance, would you be comfortable with a smartphone with an 1/8th app (which I saw, dunno how accurate it is but says gives you a tree sim, records your 60', 1000 and 1/8 times). I would love to be able to practice launches with an app.

 

[oldgixxer]

I would love to be able to practice launches with an app.

Yup,that way you dont have to deal with the clique-mentality that you experienced at the track