The role of the site admins moderating

[Bumblebee]

Bee, your first sentence, and the part following the question mark are words which could hurt someone with pride. And in the last sentence you kind of indicate disapproval of words which hurt?

I'm not here to play petty games.

 

[hayabuser]

How many harassment courses have you taken? With your opening statement I'd say not many.

Zero. And I plan to keep it that way.

Like all places, the internet and forums on them are supposed to be welcoming places for people of all walks to visit and interact without being isolated or targeted.

Words hurt, it's easy to say they don't but they do, the old adage of "sticks and stones" worked on a school playground in kindergarten but in the real world, people get killed over words.

I disagree re: "Like all places, the internet and forums on them are supposed to be welcoming places for people of all walks to visit and interact without being isolated or targeted."... Who says? And why should that be? No where on the planet is this the case, never has been... life isn't fair... everyone has a chip on their shoulder... it's very rare that someone else is truly looking out for you. You need to look out for you, full-stop.

Words can only hurt if you allow them too. Unless there's a physical threat that goes along with them, they're just words. Choose not to listen, choose to not engage.

 

[hayabuser]

In addition, the current culture of the offended-obsessed has brought about a scenario where people are getting too scared to even interact with one-another. Ever notice how many YouTube videos there are stating how men have walked away from dating (MGTOW - Men Going Their Own Way) because they can't be bothered risking a harassment suit or worse by just speaking to a woman? People afraid to speak their personal opinions out of fear of being "cancelled" on social media, or fired from their job for "wrong-think"? Or arrested by their government for alleged "extremism"?

The idea of a utopian society where everyone is included is a pipe-dream, as that utopia automatically excludes anyone who doesn't 100% accept the terms of entry.

I'd much rather face a person who is completely up-front with me than a person afraid to speak their mind. Why would anyone want to be surrounded by actors and liars? It's always best to know where you stand.

 

[Bumblebee]

Zero. And I plan to keep it that way.

I disagree re: "Like all places, the internet and forums on them are supposed to be welcoming places for people of all walks to visit and interact without being isolated or targeted."... Who says? And why should that be? No where on the planet is this the case, never has been... life isn't fair... everyone has a chip on their shoulder... it's very rare that someone else is truly looking out for you. You need to look out for you, full-stop.

Words can only hurt if you allow them too. Unless there's a physical threat that goes along with them, they're just words. Choose not to listen, choose to not engage.

Good to know...

Ideology like you are displaying is one of the reasons these forums all fail...hopefully this one will be able to resist that trend.

 

[jellyrug]

Good to know...

Ideology like you are displaying is one of the reasons these forums all fail...hopefully this one will be able to resist that trend.

LOL Bee. You sure can dish it out in a subtle way, but you hate it when someone throws the ball back at you.
Maybe you're just having a bad day?

 

[Bumblebee]

In addition, the current culture of the offended-obsessed has brought about a scenario where people are getting too scared to even interact with one-another. Ever notice how many YouTube videos there are stating how men have walked away from dating (MGTOW - Men Going Their Own Way) because they can't be bothered risking a harassment suit or worse by just speaking to a woman? People afraid to speak their personal opinions out of fear of being "cancelled" on social media, or fired from their job for "wrong-think"? Or arrested by their government for alleged "extremism"?

The idea of a utopian society where everyone is included is a pipe-dream, as that utopia automatically excludes anyone who doesn't 100% accept the terms of entry.

I'd much rather face a person who is completely up-front with me than a person afraid to speak their mind. Why would anyone want to be surrounded by actors and liars? It's always best to know where you stand.

In addition, this is a forum which is supposed to be focused on a certain make and brand of motorcycle of which anyone can come and join....do you think for one second a person in the LBGTQ community would come here? We've had several ladies join only to disappear for whatever reason...

We've had several long standing members leave and I know for a fact they left due to all the drama..I know this because I email a few of them and others told me they were leaving and why via PM.

I do agree that the pendulum has swung far and I don't know if it will swing back in my lifetime but in the meantime we have to live and we either live in misery or learn to deal with it.

 

[Bumblebee]

LOL Bee. You sure can dish it out in a subtle way, but you hate it when someone throws the ball back at you.
Maybe you're just having a bad day?

I say it like it is in plain speak....

I don't see the ball being thrown back at me at all but rather dropped on the field.

The bad day I will have is when this forum is shut off and we need to work harder at saving it instead of in-fighting and back biting.

 

[TallTom]

I'm not a weak kneed person who worships the sun in my underwear and falls prey to trends.....I can understand the internet is much different than real life but in one particular case on this forum, I (and we) ran into an ideologic extremist who by very definition isn't the sort of person I personally would want to interact with in any sense.

Political, ideological and religious extremists are all classified in the same breath, there are different levels of extremism, I have encountered the worst of the worst before. Extremism is a cancer that spreads and destroys...even on a forum such as this.

I am but one small voice in the millions of others and carry very little weight, of this I am well aware...

In my former profession, politics were irrelevant to me as I had a job to do and it didn't matter who sent me to do it. Much like now, although I am not really happy with the state of affairs within my and other countries, life for me will trudge forward as there is very little to be done other than to weather the storm as others before have had to.

Bee. I have more than one person that through their postings here, I would not wish to interact with them personally in real life. Just ignore them here.

You can only be responsible for controlling what you do. Not them.

 

[jellyrug]

In addition, this is a forum which is supposed to be focused on a certain make and brand of motorcycle of which anyone can come and join....do you think for one second a person in the LBGTQ community would come here? We've had several ladies join only to disappear for whatever reason...

We've had several long standing members leave and I know for a fact they left due to all the drama..I know this because I email a few of them and others told me they were leaving and why via PM.

I do agree that the pendulum has swung far and I don't know if it will swing back in my lifetime but in the meantime we have to live and we either live in misery or learn to deal with it.

I think after having my Busa for 14 years riding it, servicing it and knowing it well, we run out of motorcycle topics, other than trying to help newbs. So the time spent here for some of us is a lot less and lot of the old timers no longer frequent the forum. They do still connect through other means. Mine does less than 1,000 miles a year, so one develops other interests.

For the folks who wear their feelings on their sleeves, the politics and non motorcycle topics should probably be a place to avoid, as it gets out of hand sometimes, but no more than we see in the media between Republicans and Democrats.

I believe we don't need Cap to babysit us and unless someone is really out of hand with moral issues we should all be fine. I have seen folks being banned, allowed back in and banned again. It has been a while though, years back.

I don't think things are as bad as you make it Bee, hint, hint, sarcasm always lights a fuse, no matter how little it is.

 

[Bumblebee]

I think after having my Busa for 14 years riding it, servicing it and knowing it well, we run out of motorcycle topics, other than trying to help newbs. So the time spent here for some of us is a lot less and lot of the old timers no longer frequent the forum. They do still connect through other means. Mine does less than 1,000 miles a year, so one develops other interests.

For the folks who wear their feelings on their sleeves, the politics and non motorcycle topics should probably be a place to avoid, as it gets out of hand sometimes, but no more than we see in the media between Republicans and Democrats.

I believe we don't need Cap to babysit us and unless someone is really out of hand with moral issues we should all be fine. I have seen folks being banned, allowed back in and banned again. It has been a while though, years back.

I don't think things are as bad as you make it Bee, hint, hint, sarcasm always lights a fuse, no matter how little it is.

I am passionate over this as another forum (F150) I belonged to collapsed after it became a very non-inclusive environment....people stopped joining and it became so toxic, the owner got sick and tired of it and shut it down. I wasn't posting a much after a while because the admins gave up and it was a nasty place.

When I first joined it was awesome much like here.

I really don't want a repeat of that as I really like this place and the people.

 

[Red05]

I voted #1. That said Cap, you understand the legalities involved in your question much better than I. Most of the topics we debate don't have a legitimate answer like for example in mathematics. There are true facts on both sides of the argument, but in the end the endless mess of the definition of morality involved in these topics can not be reached. A dislike of people of different race or sexual preference is in my opinion a disability or a disease, but where to draw the line of censorship becomes a real complication.
Regardless of a right and wrong, these are only words, and as a person that lost a loved one to a bullet many years ago, the sticks and stones phrase rings very loud to me.

I echo those that thank you for this place

 

[hayabuser]

Good to know...

Ideology like you are displaying is one of the reasons these forums all fail...hopefully this one will be able to resist that trend.

Ideology? You mean being proud of who you are as an individual and where you came from? Being proud of your country? Thinking that people need to look out for themselves? That people should be strong enough to not let other's opinions affect them? Gosh, how many people have I chased away with a terrible ideology like that?

Seriously Bee, if you can't handle my presence, put me on ignore.

 

[Bumblebee]

Ideology? You mean being proud of who you are as an individual and where you came from? Being proud of your country? Thinking that people need to look out for themselves? That people should be strong enough to not let other's opinions affect them? Gosh, how many people have I chased away with a terrible ideology like that?

Seriously Bee, if you can't handle my presence, put me on ignore.

Ideology as in the rights of others have no meaning. Maybe I'm reading you wrong, I'm not sure.

I can handle your presence just fine and I have yet to feel the need to place anyone on "ignore."

 

[captain]

I voted #1. That said Cap, you understand the legalities involved in your question much better than I. Most of the topics we debate don't have a legitimate answer like for example in mathematics. There are true facts on both sides of the argument, but in the end the endless mess of the definition of morality involved in these topics can not be reached. A dislike of people of different race or sexual preference is in my opinion a disability or a disease, but where to draw the line of censorship becomes a real complication.
Regardless of a right and wrong, these are only words, and as a person that lost a loved one to a bullet many years ago, the sticks and stones phrase rings very loud to me.

I echo those that thank you for this place

I like the mathmatics example, the numbers add up or they don't. The topics we cover in discussion are usually around perspective and it becomes harder to have clarity.

 

[hayabuser]

Ideology as in the rights of others have no meaning. Maybe I'm reading you wrong, I'm not sure.

I can handle your presence just fine and I have yet to feel the need to place anyone on "ignore."

You're definitely reading me wrong... I feel that everyone has the same rights, hence why I feel that everyone needs to be proud of who they are, and not feel the need to knock someone else down to build themselves up.

When I say that I'm proud of who I am, it's not a slight towards who you are, or anyone else. I think that's a real problem in today's world... too many people trying to devalue others.

 

[Bumblebee]

You're definitely reading me wrong... I feel that everyone has the same rights, hence why I feel that everyone needs to be proud of who they are, and not feel the need to knock someone else down to build themselves up.

When I say that I'm proud of who I am, it's not a slight towards who you are, or anyone else. I think that's a real problem in today's world... too many people trying to devalue others.

Gotcha, now it's clearer to me.

 

[Bumblebee]

Bee. I think the point is we all have our individual definitions of terms. For some extremist means who's shooting at me in a uniform. Others consider extremist as our current SCOTUS decisions. And in that same vein the extremist that attempt to do harm to a SCOTUS judge are widely accepted as A OK in some people's eyes.

In that light, I was invited to a holiday gathering my neighbor was having. He is retired Army WO4 Special Forces. All of his military buddies were there. I felt honored to be included. We sat around the big fire pit and talked. They all unanimously felt the America they defended for an entire career, is crumbling. They saw the quality of recruits diminish. The quality of our government diminish. Around that pit represented a lot of tactical skill and discipline. Any one of them is a serious force to reckon with. And I was in a group of ten. In some circles on the outside I was in a group of extremist. Simply because they hate our current government. Would these guys act upon their verbal outpourings? I hope not. Any one of them could take many lives acting alone. And they have a lot to lose if they acted on it. I think that is part of what governs sensible people. What would they lose if they acted on their feelings? In this case a lot. They are all well pensioned and have moved on to private sector well paid positions.

Extremist typically can't moderate themselves and largely are extremist have nothing to lose except an ideology. They come here because nobody else listens to them anywhere else.

Their training and discipline will keep them in check I'm sure.......

When it comes to a diminishment of training, standards of recruits and a country crumbling before ones eyes, the US is not alone in this regard.

I totally understand the analogy of extremism, some brands and levels of extremism are very dangerous especially if they are permitted to flourish within a government such as this Marjorie Green person or others like her.....the extremists I fought and interacted with were mostly religious and ideologic in nature.

As I was at the extreme end of the "pointy stick" I often encountered them in their raw state.

 

[TallTom]

Definition of an Extremist: A concept used to describe religious, social or political belief systems that exist substantially outside of belief systems more broadly accepted in society

By this definition not only are everyone of these guys extremist, so am I.

I consider a man dressing as a woman and declaring himself a female, an extremist. But by your definition, I would be the extremist.

 

[hayabuser]

By this definition not only are everyone of these guys extremist, so am I.

I consider a man dressing as a woman and declaring himself a female, an extremist. But by your definition, I would be the extremist.

Today, a person who flies the flag of their country outside of their house is considered an extremist...

 

[rubbersidedown]

Should site admins have the authority to remove any content they disagree with?

1. Language as they deem offensive or vulgar
2. Troublesome Topics
3. Disagreeing perspective
4. Attitude of poster
5. Frequency of posting

1.yes
2.yes
3.on the fence with that one
4.yes
5. easy to ignore,but over posting is boring

Think its an easy job being a mod or admin? Try it. I've done both. Been fired from both too. It takes a serious A-hole to get fired from a volonteer position "You can't please all the people all the time." Nor should you have to try. Let common sence prevail.
Here,try this one on. I was an Admin. Two members were getting into it (fighting) here on the Org. One member is so ________ (you fill in the blank) that he decides he will fill up the other members email inbox with kiddie p0r n. Yes,true story. Well the receiver of the highly illegal krud ask's me for advice. Now,is that the role of a motorcycle web site mod/admin? No freakin way. I told him to call police/FBI who ever will take action. That's jut one. Now for those who cry "My post was locked or deleted"....well Boo fuggin Hoo. It is a personal choice thing as to what a mod/admin does. If need be,then Cap steps in. I have argued with the man (Doug) here and there...but get this...it's HIS SITE. Don't like it...there's the door.
There is the odd bit of bad shite that goes on here...but it is FAR FAR out weighed by the good. Dissagreements...forsure. It's usually not to hard to figure out that a tiny percentage of folks are just not nice people,perhaps suffering from "Keyboard Courage" or other mental challenges.
Some bad...but 99.9% good if you ask me. Look at all the awesome things that have happened on the Org over the years. Far too many things to count. Gifting parts. Well wishes when a member is down. The get togethers. ETC ETC...the list is endless.

Here's a good deed for you. In 2006 I was run over by a drunk driver.Busted me up real bad.(brain injury etc) I know,I know...now it all makes scence right. Well,the members,led by Doug(Cap) and others paid my way,ALL of it,for me and my wife to go to Vegas to hang out with the crew in that part of the world. Great time. All because of a WEB SITE? This isn't a web site...THIS IS A HOME. ALL are welcome,just don't be an A-hole. It's that easy. Have an opinion,have a thought,just try and be respecfull. If you cant...maybe take a "Time Out" for a while,but come back to share again anotther day. WE ALL HAVE BAD DAYS, but just try and be cool. Chances are...even if you've been a serious A-hole...like me....you can and probably will be forgiven.

Peace and yes, LOVE to all,
Rubb.