Subframe update

[OB_Ikers]

Rhinoracin: Thanks for the update. I have been on the phone w/ Suzuki USA and got the same treatment.

I told them that Givi called me personally and was concerned. Suzuki told me that it must be Givi's problem since they called me.

Actually, I think it demonstrates that Givi has the integrity to call their customers when there is a remote chance that something could happen. Givi has been fantastic with this and they also are talking with Suzuki, Japan about it.

 

[OB_vmax1500]

I spoke with Suzuki Canada back on the 14th of July, by the sounds of it we spoke to the same jerk. Here's my posting for last month,

"I have got some real bad news... I bought a 2000 Busa earlier this summer from a
Dealer called Moto International in Montreal Canada. I live in Toronto, but the deals
are better in Montreal ($12500+tax/out the door). I just got off the phone with that
Dealer, I called to ask about the frame failure story. What they said really alarmed
me. "Suzuki Canada is a aware of the problem, 1 case has already been reported in
Canada. If the the frame breaks come see us(the dealer), there is nothing we can
do otherwise, no recall has been issued". As you can imagine, I found this answer to
be unacceptable. "

 

[OB_CanuckBusa]

Ok guys, I just got off the phone with Suzuki Canada. A couple of quick comments.

1) The guy I spoke to hadn't heard of any subframes breaking. News to him.
2) To summarize he said: "Anything can happen to your bike, anywhere, anytime. It isn't likely to happen to you. We haven't heard of alot of these failures (any). We cannot and will not guarantee that this won't happen to you. We don't keep track of problems in other countries. This is Suzuki Canada, and we are separate from Suzuki in other countries, our bikes are built to different specs.... Enjoy your bike. Don't worry about it."
3) He also said: "If you want a technical response from Suzuki, put your request in a letter, and mail it in." (They don't take e-mails. That would be too quick.)

I felt like I was talking to a lawyer.

Time to safety wire the bike, write that letter, and ask the shop to look at the bike a little more closely.

 

[Guest]

That is why I let my legal department handle this. I carbon coppied them a letter that stated the MCN article so they had proof. If mine fails My lawyers will Make sure I or my faimly are well compinsated for any injuries and or deaths that arise from a frame failure. That and the safty wire is all you can do for now. I haven't gotten a resonse from Suzuki but I have the resources to exhaust this to the point where Suzuki will get fed up and respond.

[This message has been edited by Rhinoracin (edited 01 August 2000).]

 

[OB_CanuckBusa]

Rhinoracin. Good to hear you are pushing this. If you can exhaust them, all the better.

Added to this is the frustration of having a guy back into my bike, so that I have lost 3 weeks of summer riding while they have been fixing it. Plus a cheap insurance company - mine - that is fixing the bike the absolute cheapest possible way (even though the other guy's company is going to pay in the end). Hopefully I will be riding this wknd instead of just dreaming about it.

 

[Guest]

Even doing a two-up wheelie will put stress on the frame, imagine all that force pushing down on the rear section with a couple of 180lbs riders on board. Not too mention forward thrust and all the weight on the bike now on the rear wheel.

 

[OB_maui]

Geez you all sound like a bunch of cry babies. Do you really think that 1 or 2 problems merit a worldwide recall? Tort lawyers love guys like you, sue every one, it's not my fault, get me a million dollars from a big corp. They'll never miss it.

You wonder why every one is jumping at their own shadows? It's cause of the sue happy fools trying to get rich off of misery.

It would be horrible to have your subframe collapse. You could die. Yea no kidding. You're riding around on the world fastest super bike and you wonder why people get hurt?

The percentage of incidence is so small it's not even on the charts and some of you want a class action suit. Great! You should work real hard at it and force Suzuki out of business. That'll show 'em!

 

[OB_maui]

So does any one know the circumstances of the five failures?

Yesterday I strapped a big block Chevy on my rear seat. It left a little oil but it cleaned up real good. Tomorrow I'm gonna tow a fork lift home. I've welded a 2" ball hitch on the back so it should be all right.

What? is that too much?

 

[OB_NumbNuts]

Maui

If the fork lift is gas powered, 2" is fine

If its electric, the extra battery weight would neccessitate at least a 2 1/4 " tow hitch, if not a 2 1/2" just to ensure safety

 

[OB_SlowHand]

For those that think that "protecting a warranty" is worth scattering your engine, I say, "get real".

In an ideal world, Suzuki would be dealing personally with each of us who has a problem.

I've got news for you. They don't really care, so long as it doesn't seriously affect their bottom line. As a management style, Suzuki's customer service falls under the term, "benign neglect". They just hope that if they ignore the problems, they will go away. Sad, but true.

I have lost all respect for Suzuki for the way they treat these problems and their customers. At the same time, I think that the Hayabusa is a great bike. The people who designed and built the bike are not the people who are now screwing up customer relations. The bike is basically a good one, and will give good service so long as the customer is willing to give an occasional assist. I am.

I have a hard time believing the people who have a cow at the thought of putting a manual tensioner on their Busa. Most competition bikes have always run manuals. They are far more reliable than any of the automatics. Mine took 10 minutes to install and adjust, once the plastic was off. It will add maybe 5 minutes to my oil changes, and it will NEVER, EVER let my valves meet my pistons. My last bike had a manual installed just as a precaution, and no problems. Half of the guys I run with run manuals, and they represent various types of bikes. It aint that big a deal.

As far as the warranty is concerned, I have an extended warranty also. I will still expect Suzuki to honor anything which has no relation to the manual tensioner, and that's most of the bike. If they don't, I will take whatever action is necessary. In the meantime, I am taking reasonable action on my own to solve what might be a catastrophic engine failure if ignored.

From the stories I've heard, when one of those events happens, it may be weeks or months before you are riding again, and from past experience, fragged engines are often worthless, even after repairs.If that happens, the warranty is not going to return the bike to original condition.

Guys, I'm not trying to be a smart-*** . I've just been doing this stuff for a long time. I'm only trying to protect my bike and my ability to ride it without being interrupted.

I am as disgusted as you are with Suzuki's act, and I may never buy another Suzuki in the future. That won't stop me from doing everything in my power to protect the one I have.

 

[OB_jcchen]

DaveO:

You're right - America is sue-happy. I wasn't suggesting all busa owners go out and sue. Instead, I was suggesting that we encourage Suzuki to do the right thing - making reports to NHTSA help. If Suzuki does, in fact, admit there is a problem (if one does exist), and issues a recall, that will provide a DEFENSE to a product's liability lawsuit. Specifically, once Suzuki issues a recall, its then up to owners to make sure to get the fix. If they don't and there's a crash due to subframe failure, Suzuki can easily defend itself by pointing to the fact that it knew of a problem, notified owners through a recall campaign and provided a free fix. If the owner fails to take advantage of the recall, no court will ever hold Suzuki liable. A problem only arises IF there is a problem AND Suzuki knows about it AND fails to take responsibility. Anyone suing will have to prove all three elements in order to prevail. The reason manufacturers get into trouble is because they often refuse to admit to a problem since once they do, they must provide the fix at no cost to vehicle owners.

 

[OB_maui]

jcchen

You say the us is sue happy, then out line how to do it. Well, which are you? If you like to sue people, would that make you a sewer?

 

[OB_DangerMouse]

Maui,

I'd agree with you if the 1 or 2 failures related to a GM or Ford family car as there are millions sold - the Busa is sold in pretty low numbers so any failure IS significant statistically.

If there is a fault and someone does die I hope the guys family has a good enough lawyer to put Suzuki under - because if it does kill someone and Suzuki know anout the fault they are in big trouble, they are a (reletively) small company.

 

[OB_DaveD]

So we just ride around, two up waiting for it to break do we maui? - it's just a risk that goes with riding a fast bike is it?

How come I never had to wory about this sort of problem with my other bikes? (all Kawasakis for past 12 years!)

If some poor pillion died because of this you can bet your *** Suzuki would do a recall as faster than you can blink!

 

[OB_CanuckBusa]

Slowhand, my APE tensioner arrived yesterday and I'm going to have the shop put it in. My question is: Can I get away with adjusting it at every oil change (3000 or so miles)? I am hoping I don't have to adjust it every 1000 miles.

 

[OB_BarryW.]

For those of you wanting to minimize your risk until Suzuki comes out with a fix, you might consider polishing the cast pieces of the subframe. Maui posted links to some pictures of the failure last week and it showed failure in the cast section, not at the welds. By polishing these sections you'll eliminate the surface cracks which mark the beginning of fatigue failures like this. If I remember correctly, the photos showed the casting to have a rough finish, like a sand cast part.

 

[OB_SlowHand]

CanuckBusa, unless the 1000 miles are all on a race track, your Busa will easily go 3000 or 4000 miles between adjustments,if done correctly. I talked to my wrench about that yesterday and asked him what the average time between adjustments was for the various sport bikes he works on.

He said that most bikes will go 7000 or 8000 miles between adjustments, although they should be checked at every oil change.

Also, a savvy owner or wrench will notice if the chain starts to get a little noisy before it fails, and take action.

My bike was immediately quieter as soon as the manual adjuster was installed. As I said, my last bike, a Yamaha, had a manual for almost 4 years, and beyond instructing my wrench to check it at every oil change, there was no other noticeable effect.

 

[OB_maui]

BarryW
good point, You could reduce the chance of a crack, and stay within the warrenty. Be sure that you start off with no cracks though as the polishing may just hide then from you.

 

[OB_Kirk]

I'm going to go with maui on this one, and I do ride 2 up without hesitation. Last weekend, it was Officer Hottie.

[This message has been edited by Kirk (edited 02 August 2000).]

 

[OB_DaveD]

No wonder she won't return your calls!!

LOL