Sping loaded Frame sliders

[1127 TO 1299]

Check this out,Playaz while surfn I trip over these babies, pretty slick item I must say, but

Springloaded Frame sliders

http://www.radicalraceworks.com - Link no longer works

http://www.radicalraceworks.com - Link no longer works

Heres a heavy duty slider for the Hardley Ridaz

http://www.radicalraceworks.com - Link no longer works

Hey I just notice it,

it's says QUEBEC on the bike!!!

this is where I am from.

Maybe I shouldn't tell people.



The only advantage I see in the spring is when the bike fells on the side when standing still. Going 60 mph and laying the bike down will suffer greater damage from the slide than from the inpact to the ground. And you don't want that spring to compress too much so that the fairing touches the ground.

 

[Rhythm]

And you don't want that spring to compress too much so that the fairing touches the ground.
[/QUOTE]

I doubt you would have a problem in that dept. Lookzz to me  those sliders are a good 6 inches in lenght  

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[Rhythm]

Going 60 mph and laying the bike down will suffer greater damage from the slide than from the inpact to the ground.[/QUOTE]

From the fall or from a sudden stop from catching onto somthing in the road  

Quote  
What you hafta remember is that...unless it's a tip over in a garge or parking lot?..you must assume that the bike will most likely be in forward motion (through a wide and varying range of speeds)...and when that slider makes contact two forces will be present...compression annnd "SHEAR"....both upward and towards the rear...and in most cases (except for ultra low speed crashes) the SHEAR FORCE will far out-weigh the compression...an this is no place to compromise the structural integrity of the solid mounted slider by incorporating a "sprung together" assembly as imnsho?..the whole idea of spring loaded sliders represents nothing more than a marketing/sales gimmick which will ultimately prove to cost the rider/purchaser of such more $$$'s both up front out of pocket annnd...at the repair shop should a crash occur...as opposed to conventional, well designed, solidly mounted sliders.And that's just my thoughts and opinions on the matter but...

I'm still not...."joking".    




Heres where I disagree with you, J, Because.

A  drop from 4' sitting still in the garage should have no greater force than falling while in motion, right ? Any other shear force as you would say to me would be caused by the slider grabbing somthing on the road surface causing more destruction than the actual fall or the intial impact.[/QUOTE]

 

[JINKSTER]

Slip Joint?...Easier?...actually the very idea of a reactive spring loaded slider DICTATES the use of some form of "slip joint" but still (and always will in any configuration) necessitate additional length to facilitate the spring loaded action/movement which opposed to solidly mounted sliders will compromise structual integrity on two fronts..

1. The Additional Length Needed For The Movement/Compression and...

I totally agree with you on that, but you have to admit it was a nice shot on my behalf. LQQk I'm  

What you hafta remember is that...unless it's a tip over in a garge or parking lot?..you must assume that the bike will most likely be in forward motion (through a wide and varying range of speeds)...and when that slider makes contact two forces will be present...compression annnd "SHEAR"....both upward and towards the rear...and in most cases (except for ultra low speed crashes) the SHEAR FORCE will far out-weigh the compression...an this is no place to compromise the structural integrity of the solid mounted slider by incorporating a "sprung together" assembly as imnsho?..the whole idea of spring loaded sliders represents nothing more than a marketing/sales gimmick which will ultimately prove to cost the rider/purchaser of such more $$$'s both up front out of pocket annnd...at the repair shop should a crash occur...as opposed to conventional, well designed, solidly mounted sliders.And that's just my thoughts and opinions on the matter but...

I'm still not...."joking".   [/QUOTE]



Heres where I disagree with you, J, Because.

A  drop from 4' sitting still in the garage should have no greater force than falling while in motion, right ? Any other shear force as you would say to me would be caused by the slider grabbing somthing on the road surface causing more destruction than the actual fall or the intial impact.[/QUOTE]
Wrong...and to prove this out?...take a 3' stick and just stand there then lean/fall/place your weight solidly and rapidly onto that stick..and that represents "Still Compression" (as in a standing fall) then for comparison?...

Take that very same stick and run as fast as you can then reach out and touch the ground with the tip of it...and that's a highly amplified/exagerated example of the shear force that would be imparted unto any slider assuming the bikes in forward motion.

Sliders slide but..that dosen't entirely exclude or excuse them from the immenent upward/rearward applied shear force.

As a matter of fact?...the shear force applied my very well cause a "BINDING" to occur between the two interlocking slip-joint surfaces which would consequently negate the intended compression of the spring loaded movement.

Again...imnsho.

btw...you're fully within your rights to disagree.

btw II: PM answered.

 

[Rhythm]

Wrong you say  

Wrong...and to prove this out?...take a 3' stick and just stand there then lean/fall/place your weight solidly and rapidly onto that stick..and that represents "Still Compression" (as in a standing fall) then for comparison?...[/QUOTE]



Fall: to come down because detached ,pushed, dropped and land forcibly.


This woulding considered falling, right ?

I agree with you on this, like I said before this is where the most damaging shear force would come other than the slider catching onto somthing in the road.


Take that very same stick and run as fast as you can then reach out and touch the ground with the tip of it...and that's a highly amplified/exagerated example of the shear force that would be imparted unto any slider assuming the bikes in forward motion.[/QUOTE]

That not shear force Bill.

Slide: To move along in constant frictional contact with some surface or substance

Friction: a rubbing, esp of one object against another.

How would this cause a bounce effect ?

As with any slider, once it grabs into somthing  on the surface it will barrell roll possibly.  Similar to falling = sudden impact.

I just hit you back with a PM



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[JINKSTER]

This discussion can not proceed with any rational level of logic until the definition of shear force is accurately conveyed and fully understood...to wit...axial forces on a bolt means it's being placed under tension/compression..but side forces on a bolt equals "shear force"....and unless you turn the bike a complete 90 degrees and then drop it straight down unto the slider?...the primary fastening bolt will be exposed to a tremedous amount of "shear force"....regardless of whether the slider puck slides or grabs...impact will be angular...binding will occur...and "shear force" will be the dominant impact force applied unto a slider in most if not all forward moving crash scenarios. Especially due to the binding and despite what levels of friction that WILL exist between the slider material and the road surface.

If you can not accept that..then we will just hafta agree to dis-agree...which at this point is fine with me...either way.

But again...like I said...I'm not "joking" and even if spring loaded sliders were vastly less expensive than solidly mounted ones?...(which they won't be)...I'd still advise and select the solid mounted sliders vs spring loaded.

L8R, Bill.

 

[Rhythm]

As a matter of fact?...the shear force applied my very well cause a "BINDING" to occur between the two interlocking slip-joint surfaces which would consequently negate the intended compression of the spring loaded movement.[/QUOTE]

Basically your saying there might be possible compression failure of the slip joint due too excessive shear force.  Understood, Bill !  

As you have said, it <span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>may</span>very well cause BINDING.

I still believe my drawing board slipjoint frame slider will past the test and not bind or bounce when put to the test on a flat surface.

 

[JINKSTER]

Have you ever wondered about ALL the reasons why slider pucks are hollow in the center?

 

[Rhythm]

Never thought about it before .

 

[JINKSTER]

Ahhh.....ever wondered why the major players (like vortex & others) who produce 2 piece "Base/Puck" sliders go through the trouble of machining special "short, large diameter" bolts to connect the two?

 

[Rhythm]

For easy replacement .

 

[Rhythm]

Com'n Teach, I aint got all day

 

[JINKSTER]

For easy replacement .

BZZZZZZZTT!!! wrong answer...as any inexpensively purchased bulk quantity bolt would achieve the same.

The reason they are hollow is two fold...

1. Is to create a crumple/cushion affect

2. Is to make room for the enlarged headed clamping bolt

and the large headed clamping bolt is specially machined and designed to maximize surface-too-surface clamping area between all the "bolthead too puck" and the "puck too base" interface which usually includes and inetlocking diameter feature between the puck and base for even more additional support...why you ask?...so that the puck isn't ripped off the bolt head and dosen't bend/deflect at the puck/base joint from...

"Shear Force"

as the chances of the puck being pushed straight inward are slim too none..result?..

STRENGTH IN THE DIRECTION STRENGTH IS MOST NEEDED

Shear Force.

 

[TruWrecks]

My bets are that the spring will comepletely compress as it impacts the ground, and will act just like a silod metal peg. The spring length isn't long enough to do much more than that, even falling over from a standstill. I'd like to see if they do work, but I'm not going to try them on my bike yet.

 

[Rhythm]

The reason they are hollow is two fold...

1. Is to create a crumple/cushion affect

2. Is to make room for the enlarged headed clamping bolt[/QUOTE]

That sound like a serious flaw in designing .  If this is true then how would you go about removing the collasped puck if the bolt head is buried underneath it  

 Sound like it would  more trouble than just using any other frame slider.

This is where my ideal of using as slip joint frame slider design would also be useful, as described early in this post.

Shear force : I dont work in the aircraft industry so dont  have a clue my friend so I'll take your word on it for now.

                            <span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>To be Continued

</span>

 

[ks-waterbug]

I think with a little tweaking Rhythms idea could/would work....

 

[Rhythm]

ks-waterbug
The Bug is Back...



Group: Donating Member
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Joined: Dec. 2002
Location: Kansas Posted: June 16 2005,04:22

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I think with a little tweaking Rhythms idea could/would work.... [/QUOTE]

With a Can Do attitude anything possible.

 

[Turbo-Torch]

Yeah, I think Rhythm is on to a good idea. I'd like to see them tested Myth Busters style...we'd need a bike similar in size to a Busa so a few ZX12's would be just fine.

So many ways you can make those things too. If you don't want bounce make it like a small version of the one use liquid filled "shocks" that car bumpers attached to back in the 70's.

Now personally last year I made up miniature air bags made out of kevlar and attached them to a tip over sensor. I was ready to sell the idea to bmw but it was then found out they caused BARREL ROLLS!

 

[MoosesBusa]

Rhythm, Consider this in your design... A pneumatically charged slider with an adjustable flow exhaust valve. Under normal circumstances they look normal (and hopefully attractive) Upon impact the air cylinder absorbs the impact and disperses it through a controlled exit via a bleed off valve. We use this everyday on car wash equipment as down force dampening on top brushes. To fully understand what I am saying go get an air shifter cylinder or for this lesson any pneumatically activated cylinder will do... I'll wait ............................ Good! Took ya long enough

Now pull the shaft out to its fully extended position. With your other hand cover the hole the air will escape from when you push the shaft back in with your thumb. Push the shaft in. Ya can't do it! NOW, allow just the smallest amount of air flow and you can control the speed of the shaft's movement. Get to work

I expect a free set once you've mastered it!

 

[Rhythm]

Group: Donating Member
Posts: 534
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Location: N.W. Indiana Posted: June 16 2005,04:53

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Yeah, I think Rhythm is on to a good idea. I'd like to see them tested ...we'd need a bike similar in size to a Busa so a few ZX12's would be just fine. [/QUOTE]

Myth Busters style , I like that.