Robber fatally shot in Miami Burger King holdup
- Thread starter Robot
- Start date
True story:
I spent many years in South Africa, where you needed a licence for each owned firearm and if you owned it, you could carry it any way you liked. Laws were simple and attorneys were simple also. Life had little value.
I use to cycle competitively and due to all the violence I use to carry little 0.25 Taurus pistol in a plastic bag, in my cycling shirt. Working a job and riding competitively, meant out on the road before sunrise at 4:45 AM in the morning, so you can be back at home and in the shower two hours later, then have breakfast in the car while driving to work.
So, on a dark morning, at 4:45 AM, still waking up and cursing myself because on this day the program was hill sprints, which hurt, I am five minutes away from my house. Out of the corner of my eye, I notice a dark figure charging me, he gets hold of my shirt and tries to pull me off the bike. The first reaction is surprise, then the adrenalin kicks in together with sub conscious reaction. So, I stood up on the pedals, with a massive sprint and managed to escape the attacker. A few seconds later, the testosterone kicks in, so I stop, decide there is a principle involved here, take my little 0.25 out of its plastic bag and head back to the attacker.
With concentration and testosterone mixed with adrenalin, I slowly cycle back, to see another dark figure, also on a bicycle, this one with a luggage box in front of the bars traveling down the road and our attacker does the same thing. He attacks this poor cyclist, same adrenalin reaction and the rider, cussing and yelling manages to pull free and get away. This fellar got such a fright though, the testosterone did not kick in, so he keeps going, even although he lost half his luggage.
I continue riding towards my attacker, who sees me and he charges again. I stop, both feet down on the pavement and wait until he is a couple of yards away, then pull the trigger, with a warning shot into the air. This little 0.25, with its short barrel made nice blue orange flame out the front, in the dark and it was amazingly loud. So, my attacker stops dead in his tracks, while I point the gun straight to his eyes. So, in sentences, where every second word starts with a "F" I asked him what he was thinking and what he was trying to do? Looking at the poor guy, he was unarmed, smaller than me and I wonder what he would have done, should he have succeeded in the first place.
So, this is what he says: "Boss, they stole my bicycle a few minutes ago, so when I saw you come past, I was just trying to steal one back."
Me: "You know, people like you should not be alive, sit down, put your hands on your head and let's discuss this a bit more"
Attacker: Sits down, hands on his head and says: "Please let me go, I am so sorry, my emotions got the better of me."
Me: "You know, you look like a sorry mess, I think the best thing I can do for you is just kill you right here, right now!!!"
At this point I pull the trigger, shooting past his side, the bullet hits a rock, and ricochets with a nice loud whizzing sound. My attacker jumps up and runs away like hell, while I fire two shots into the air. He hits a barbed wire fence at full speed, gets catapulted back and as he lands in the dirt, he is up again, running like a rabbit.
Enough fun for one day, the 0.25 went back in its plastic bag, and I proceeded with my training session. A few miles later I meet victim number two, who says: "Man, I heard you had a nice conversation, it went bang, bang, bang and I hope you killed him." I just laughed.
The best part of this whole experience was the following day. Riding the same route, my mind started playing games, telling me that my attacker will be waiting, same place, but this time with a AK47, versus my tiny little pistol. I could hear the words: "Mmmm, remember yesterday's meeting???" Never heard anything again, only memories remain and this was the only time in my life I used a gun for real.
Folks, I enjoy my guns out here in the US, but only on the range. You really don't need to be armed as a civilian here in the United States. It can only get you into trouble. You need to visit a few other countries around the globe, to realize how safe it is here and how isolated these incidents are. That is my 0.02C worth.
I spent many years in South Africa, where you needed a licence for each owned firearm and if you owned it, you could carry it any way you liked. Laws were simple and attorneys were simple also. Life had little value.
I use to cycle competitively and due to all the violence I use to carry little 0.25 Taurus pistol in a plastic bag, in my cycling shirt. Working a job and riding competitively, meant out on the road before sunrise at 4:45 AM in the morning, so you can be back at home and in the shower two hours later, then have breakfast in the car while driving to work.
So, on a dark morning, at 4:45 AM, still waking up and cursing myself because on this day the program was hill sprints, which hurt, I am five minutes away from my house. Out of the corner of my eye, I notice a dark figure charging me, he gets hold of my shirt and tries to pull me off the bike. The first reaction is surprise, then the adrenalin kicks in together with sub conscious reaction. So, I stood up on the pedals, with a massive sprint and managed to escape the attacker. A few seconds later, the testosterone kicks in, so I stop, decide there is a principle involved here, take my little 0.25 out of its plastic bag and head back to the attacker.
With concentration and testosterone mixed with adrenalin, I slowly cycle back, to see another dark figure, also on a bicycle, this one with a luggage box in front of the bars traveling down the road and our attacker does the same thing. He attacks this poor cyclist, same adrenalin reaction and the rider, cussing and yelling manages to pull free and get away. This fellar got such a fright though, the testosterone did not kick in, so he keeps going, even although he lost half his luggage.
I continue riding towards my attacker, who sees me and he charges again. I stop, both feet down on the pavement and wait until he is a couple of yards away, then pull the trigger, with a warning shot into the air. This little 0.25, with its short barrel made nice blue orange flame out the front, in the dark and it was amazingly loud. So, my attacker stops dead in his tracks, while I point the gun straight to his eyes. So, in sentences, where every second word starts with a "F" I asked him what he was thinking and what he was trying to do? Looking at the poor guy, he was unarmed, smaller than me and I wonder what he would have done, should he have succeeded in the first place.
So, this is what he says: "Boss, they stole my bicycle a few minutes ago, so when I saw you come past, I was just trying to steal one back."
Me: "You know, people like you should not be alive, sit down, put your hands on your head and let's discuss this a bit more"
Attacker: Sits down, hands on his head and says: "Please let me go, I am so sorry, my emotions got the better of me."
Me: "You know, you look like a sorry mess, I think the best thing I can do for you is just kill you right here, right now!!!"
At this point I pull the trigger, shooting past his side, the bullet hits a rock, and ricochets with a nice loud whizzing sound. My attacker jumps up and runs away like hell, while I fire two shots into the air. He hits a barbed wire fence at full speed, gets catapulted back and as he lands in the dirt, he is up again, running like a rabbit.
Enough fun for one day, the 0.25 went back in its plastic bag, and I proceeded with my training session. A few miles later I meet victim number two, who says: "Man, I heard you had a nice conversation, it went bang, bang, bang and I hope you killed him." I just laughed.
The best part of this whole experience was the following day. Riding the same route, my mind started playing games, telling me that my attacker will be waiting, same place, but this time with a AK47, versus my tiny little pistol. I could hear the words: "Mmmm, remember yesterday's meeting???" Never heard anything again, only memories remain and this was the only time in my life I used a gun for real.
Folks, I enjoy my guns out here in the US, but only on the range. You really don't need to be armed as a civilian here in the United States. It can only get you into trouble. You need to visit a few other countries around the globe, to realize how safe it is here and how isolated these incidents are. That is my 0.02C worth.
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what is funny is the more "lib" section of this society will be looking at each other going "I dont get it, what happened?"
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Trucker Mike
Registered
The lesson here:
When faced with a similar situation AND ONLY IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE THE ROBBER IS GOING TO SHOOT, position yourself properly if you can, draw a bead on the guy, instruct him to not move and to slowly place his weapon on the ground. If he does anything other than freeze, shoot him. By not complying with your instructions, any movement could have been viewed as him attempted to turn and shoot, justifying lethal force.
This CCW holder made a huge mistake by:
1. Not allowing the robbery to simply take place and the robber leaves (safest choice).
2. By getting into a verbal confrontation with an armed suspect.
His actions prove that not everyone who can carry, should carry. Unfortunately, this incident will give the anti-CCW groups a big push. The only saving grace is that apparently no other bystander was hit.
It also proves that criminals can and will shoot with accuracy.
If you carry, please take the time to learn patience. Having an itchy trigger-finger makes you just as dangerous as any armed criminal, and you can never stop that bullet if you made a mistake.
I can tell you firsthand that patience kept me from shooting a man in '05, when I really was justified in doing so. I had sobriety and distance on my side, tho.
When faced with a similar situation AND ONLY IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE THE ROBBER IS GOING TO SHOOT, position yourself properly if you can, draw a bead on the guy, instruct him to not move and to slowly place his weapon on the ground. If he does anything other than freeze, shoot him. By not complying with your instructions, any movement could have been viewed as him attempted to turn and shoot, justifying lethal force.
This CCW holder made a huge mistake by:
1. Not allowing the robbery to simply take place and the robber leaves (safest choice).
2. By getting into a verbal confrontation with an armed suspect.
His actions prove that not everyone who can carry, should carry. Unfortunately, this incident will give the anti-CCW groups a big push. The only saving grace is that apparently no other bystander was hit.
It also proves that criminals can and will shoot with accuracy.
If you carry, please take the time to learn patience. Having an itchy trigger-finger makes you just as dangerous as any armed criminal, and you can never stop that bullet if you made a mistake.
I can tell you firsthand that patience kept me from shooting a man in '05, when I really was justified in doing so. I had sobriety and distance on my side, tho.
Trucker Mike
Registered
it's "head in the sand", unless you just typo'd. 
I agree...there's a lot of paranoia out there. One just can't reason with those who spend their life feeling threatened all the time.
Loki08
Registered
Sorry. I am not sheeple. I carry concealed everytime I leave the house. You misinterpreted my post. But don't bother asking, as I am done with this one...
Although I don't mind a scumbag biting the dust and don't know all the
facts wasn't there but on the surface the CCW guy was an idiot.
I CCW but I am not going to risk my life or the lives of those around me
for someone elses money, burger kings money at that.
It's only money, he can take it and leave.
A CCW holder is NOT in any way, shape, or form a police officer. Had either
man accidentially shot a bystander, the anti-gun/anti CCW people would
ALL OVER THIS.
Part 2 of this is in no way should he get into a verbal with the scumbag.
Yeah, I'd let him take the money and if I got a glimmer of anything further
I'd pull and fire and it'd be over. No words necessary.
Not only has the CCW holder put everyone at danger, he wound up in the
hospital, and....and, should the DA be a real horses arse, he could be facing
some serious charges and....and a big lawsuit by any surviving relatives.
For what...a little burger king money....stooge.
Bear in mind I am a 100% NRA 2nd amendment lover and believe heavy in CCW
but...you better KNOW what your doing and treat it serious. It's not cool like
the movies and either way, your life will NEVER EVER be the same again.
You will probably do jail time, you will more than likely be sued for whatever
you haven't lost while in jail.
If your not sure and not fully prepared for that...leave the hardware at home.
facts wasn't there but on the surface the CCW guy was an idiot.
I CCW but I am not going to risk my life or the lives of those around me
for someone elses money, burger kings money at that.
It's only money, he can take it and leave.
A CCW holder is NOT in any way, shape, or form a police officer. Had either
man accidentially shot a bystander, the anti-gun/anti CCW people would
ALL OVER THIS.
Part 2 of this is in no way should he get into a verbal with the scumbag.
Yeah, I'd let him take the money and if I got a glimmer of anything further
I'd pull and fire and it'd be over. No words necessary.
Not only has the CCW holder put everyone at danger, he wound up in the
hospital, and....and, should the DA be a real horses arse, he could be facing
some serious charges and....and a big lawsuit by any surviving relatives.
For what...a little burger king money....stooge.
Bear in mind I am a 100% NRA 2nd amendment lover and believe heavy in CCW
but...you better KNOW what your doing and treat it serious. It's not cool like
the movies and either way, your life will NEVER EVER be the same again.
You will probably do jail time, you will more than likely be sued for whatever
you haven't lost while in jail.
If your not sure and not fully prepared for that...leave the hardware at home.
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The article wasn't very clear about how the robber "showed" the gun. Either way, he probably made it clear that he was willing to use it if he didn't get the money.
A "shootout" never should have taken place. If the robber was close enough to the counter to get money in his hands, then the customer probably would have been behind or at least beside him. That doesn't matter as much if you're well trained and able to use your weapon skillfully. Once the customer decided to intervene, he should have drawn his weapon and been ready to shoot before the robber could fire at him. I don't know the status of the robbers gun while this was going on. If it was drawn and was a clear threat, he needed to be shot.
I want to clarify that I'm not saying he needed to die over what little money was in the register. I'm saying he needed to die if he was threatening the life of another person.
You're crazy if you think that a guy who's ballsy enough to rob a crowded restaurant wouldn't rob your wife, mother, or daughter while she's walking through a parking lot. Crazy or stupid. Or both.
A "shootout" never should have taken place. If the robber was close enough to the counter to get money in his hands, then the customer probably would have been behind or at least beside him. That doesn't matter as much if you're well trained and able to use your weapon skillfully. Once the customer decided to intervene, he should have drawn his weapon and been ready to shoot before the robber could fire at him. I don't know the status of the robbers gun while this was going on. If it was drawn and was a clear threat, he needed to be shot.
I want to clarify that I'm not saying he needed to die over what little money was in the register. I'm saying he needed to die if he was threatening the life of another person.
You're crazy if you think that a guy who's ballsy enough to rob a crowded restaurant wouldn't rob your wife, mother, or daughter while she's walking through a parking lot. Crazy or stupid. Or both.
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"Exchanged gunfire"? not good!! If he had shot the robber to stop what he saw as a threat to another persons life and killed him thats one thing, but because of his actions bullets were flying that may not have if he stood aside. He needs training a range tiime, if you cant kill it properly,1 or 2 shots, no returned fire, you probly shouldnt shoot at it to start with, IMO
ibified
Registered
I agree. If i was carrying and had been in that situation, the first clue he would have had that he wasnt the only one armed in the restaraunt would have been me telling him to put slowly put his weapon on the floor as i covered him with my gun. I also would have been sure to be behind him and within a few feet of him, and made sure that if i DID have to shoot, it would h ave been a clear shot with no risk of anyone else being harmed.
He decides to not comply? fine. Bye bye robber. He makes a go for his gun and I have all the justification in the world to protect myself. Nobody else would get hurt in that situation, i wouldnt risk any jail time, and his family would have no legal recourse to sue me. problem solved.
He decides to not comply? fine. Bye bye robber. He makes a go for his gun and I have all the justification in the world to protect myself. Nobody else would get hurt in that situation, i wouldnt risk any jail time, and his family would have no legal recourse to sue me. problem solved.
SANDFLEA85
Registered
I agree with you
I was just trying to say that good ppl make bad decisions sometimes,esp when faced with desperation, but as said earlier,nobody knows the entire truth to this and its all speculation at this point.
The story never said anything about kids being in the Burger King, never said how many folks where there. Just that it was the time of day there would normally be folks getting off work, and school kids in and around the area. Did I miss where it said they were actually there?
Forgive me, but in my experience if a man comes in with a mask on, demands money, he isn't going to keep the firearm tucked away in his pants and just lift his shirt and flash it. He has it out.
CCW law permits you to defend your life, or the lives of 3rd parties from imminent danger. I think the guy was doing just that.
9 times out of 10, folks are robbing so they can buy and sell drugs. Who's to say that guy didn't leave with the money, buy drugs, and sell them to your kid? There is always a ripple effect for the action someone takes.
The Hero here will have to live with the fact he took someone's life. He did it in self defense, and defense of the innocents around him, for me that would be easy to live with. Had he sat back, and let things unfold, and someone was injured by the robber, well that I would not be able to live with.
I'd like to think in the same scenario I would have taken the same action and killed the robber.
I just wanted to edit one more thing. A scenario like this is the exact reason the first 2 rounds in my pistol are glaser safety slugs.
Forgive me, but in my experience if a man comes in with a mask on, demands money, he isn't going to keep the firearm tucked away in his pants and just lift his shirt and flash it. He has it out.
CCW law permits you to defend your life, or the lives of 3rd parties from imminent danger. I think the guy was doing just that.
9 times out of 10, folks are robbing so they can buy and sell drugs. Who's to say that guy didn't leave with the money, buy drugs, and sell them to your kid? There is always a ripple effect for the action someone takes.
The Hero here will have to live with the fact he took someone's life. He did it in self defense, and defense of the innocents around him, for me that would be easy to live with. Had he sat back, and let things unfold, and someone was injured by the robber, well that I would not be able to live with.
I'd like to think in the same scenario I would have taken the same action and killed the robber.
I just wanted to edit one more thing. A scenario like this is the exact reason the first 2 rounds in my pistol are glaser safety slugs.
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