OB_cbxchris
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I noticed on one of the post above it said 3 volts....that should be 0.03 volts.......
PCII Problem??? No, \'Busa problem.
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CBX,
Just double checked my service manual. The sensor is actually referred to as "CKP". Manual states " CKP sensor peak voltage: More than 3V". This is for the crank position sensor. My mistake on the abbreviation, sorry for any confusion this caused.
I wonder if the stator being surrounded by the nickel/copper coating has an effect on the magnetic field??
Dave
[This message has been edited by DaveO (edited 09 August 2000).]
Just double checked my service manual. The sensor is actually referred to as "CKP". Manual states " CKP sensor peak voltage: More than 3V". This is for the crank position sensor. My mistake on the abbreviation, sorry for any confusion this caused.
I wonder if the stator being surrounded by the nickel/copper coating has an effect on the magnetic field??
Dave
[This message has been edited by DaveO (edited 09 August 2000).]
There's already a large quantity of babble regarding the PCII on this board, but I felt this one needed to be heard. I was not able to run my bike with the PCII. For those of you who are not familiar with my bike, it's a '99 w/Akra full exhaust, no PAIR valve, and a BMC filter. When I added the PCII with the proper .006 map, the bike would not run from 4k rpm up. I had my dealer replace my Crank Position Sensor (CPS), did nothing. I gave up for a while since the bike ran fine w/out the PCII. I was however, determined to get it to work, and last night I committed to the time. With the help of site member Daveo, and his scope, and a couple 'Busas to compare to, we got it working. When we scoped the voltage output of the CPS on a stock 'Busa vs. mine, mine was putting out almost double the voltage. We thought about trying to move the CPS up or down to change the voltage, but Dave (The Man) figured out a much less time consuming fix. We used a variable resistance tool of his to determine how much resistance was neccesary to bring down my output voltage. We put the resistance tester across the Blue and Green wires at the connector for the CPS, and when we got to 600 ohms resistance, the voltage matched that of the stock 'Busa. We then used a 600 ohm resistor across the Green/Blue wires, and the bike now runs fine. Dave is a genius!!!!! Cudos to you Dave.
Oh, by the way, the bike is much more powerful now, to the point that while on the highway on my way home, I found myself, more than once, trying to shift into 7th gear. This was because the bike had so much more power in 6th that I thought I was only in 5th.
Sorry for the techy talk, but for those of you dealing with similar PCII/'Busa problems, I thought this might help you get it right. I would still recommend the PCII for it's unparelled adjustability. Did I forget to mention that Dynojet replaced my PCII without any hesitation, before we knew if it was the PCII causing the problem. They are great to deal with!!!
[This message has been edited by RPM (edited 09 August 2000).]
[This message has been edited by RPM (edited 09 August 2000).]
Oh, by the way, the bike is much more powerful now, to the point that while on the highway on my way home, I found myself, more than once, trying to shift into 7th gear. This was because the bike had so much more power in 6th that I thought I was only in 5th.
Sorry for the techy talk, but for those of you dealing with similar PCII/'Busa problems, I thought this might help you get it right. I would still recommend the PCII for it's unparelled adjustability. Did I forget to mention that Dynojet replaced my PCII without any hesitation, before we knew if it was the PCII causing the problem. They are great to deal with!!!
[This message has been edited by RPM (edited 09 August 2000).]
[This message has been edited by RPM (edited 09 August 2000).]
OB_cbxchris
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Dyno-jet claimed no problem....I wonder after all this....but I think there is a problem...have had numerous mails from all over world with same problem.....interesting...the PC2 really makes a small problem much better....if yosh comes out with the promised programable ecm or someone I still think the PC2 will be a thing of the past...its just the best there is right now....give it a few years......
Frank Adams
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Great post!
I think I'll print this one off.
Glad to see you finally get to use your pc2.
I think I'll print this one off.
Glad to see you finally get to use your pc2.
OB_Cisco San Jose
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Great post and very good troubleshooting,thanks for the heads up and ride safe.
OB_cbxchris
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That should have been the PC2 makes a small problem worse....
OB_Dennis D.
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What's really disappointing is that the PCII does not provide "scanner" functions for other diagnostic purposes. Such a feature would be very useful, if not educational in learning more about the Busa's electronic control system and/or helping to diagnose problems, in addition to tuning the bike. Some (or all) of the ECM's sensor circuits and PC uplink interface are already built in, so a scanner capability in PC-II seems feasible. Of course, the product would require further software development.
D-I-Yer scanners are commonly available for only a couple hundred bucks for most late model (FI) automobiles. Why not bikes too?
[This message has been edited by dsinned (edited 09 August 2000).]
D-I-Yer scanners are commonly available for only a couple hundred bucks for most late model (FI) automobiles. Why not bikes too?
[This message has been edited by dsinned (edited 09 August 2000).]
OB_busagringo
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But, in the first place, the voltage should not be that high, as compared with the other busa. Yes, the resistor-in-series bandaid fix is great but should you concentrate on the real solution to the problem?
my .02. Ride safe.
my .02. Ride safe.
Busagringo,
Suzuki only has a MINIMUM voltage spec for the CPS voltage output. Anything OVER 3 volts P-P meets their spec. Obviously the stock ECM is designed with OVP protection in mind. Thus as long as it is over 3 volts NO prob. Probably has internal clamp diodes.
The PC2 apparently has different input circuitry on the CPS signal. It appears that IF the PC2 is changing the timing, AND the CPS signal is TOO large, then it malfunctions. If RPM runs a PC2 map without timing changes the PC2 works flawless, I.E. the 004 map(Yosh). The 006 map(Akro) Bob was running advances timing 5 degrees @4K, this is EXACTLY where the bike would break up.
So what is the defective part?? The CPS output MEETS Suzuki specs. It is significantly larger than the other Busa we sampled, does that make it wrong? RPM has already changed the CPS sensor out once. He also changed ECM's and PC2's trying to cure the problem.
What can cause the larger signal? The CPS sensor is on the high end of it's resistance spec. Also the position of the pickup VS. rotor will have an effect. Another thought would be the magnetism in the rotor...is it TOO strong? There is NO spec for that. The chrome cover??
The main objective here was to get RPM's Busa running the way it should be. Albeit a little "creative" engineering, and a couple of 1/4 watt resistors laying around, the result is a happy PC2/BUSA.
And FYI, the 600 ohms was not in series, it was put in parallel to "load" the signal.
You guys have got to check out the paint on RPM's bike. I think you call it a "flip-flop" purple/blue/??? colors. Whatever you call it, words don't do it justice. He's got to post some pics for people to see!!! It's AWESOME!!!
Dave
[This message has been edited by DaveO (edited 09 August 2000).]
Suzuki only has a MINIMUM voltage spec for the CPS voltage output. Anything OVER 3 volts P-P meets their spec. Obviously the stock ECM is designed with OVP protection in mind. Thus as long as it is over 3 volts NO prob. Probably has internal clamp diodes.
The PC2 apparently has different input circuitry on the CPS signal. It appears that IF the PC2 is changing the timing, AND the CPS signal is TOO large, then it malfunctions. If RPM runs a PC2 map without timing changes the PC2 works flawless, I.E. the 004 map(Yosh). The 006 map(Akro) Bob was running advances timing 5 degrees @4K, this is EXACTLY where the bike would break up.
So what is the defective part?? The CPS output MEETS Suzuki specs. It is significantly larger than the other Busa we sampled, does that make it wrong? RPM has already changed the CPS sensor out once. He also changed ECM's and PC2's trying to cure the problem.
What can cause the larger signal? The CPS sensor is on the high end of it's resistance spec. Also the position of the pickup VS. rotor will have an effect. Another thought would be the magnetism in the rotor...is it TOO strong? There is NO spec for that. The chrome cover??
The main objective here was to get RPM's Busa running the way it should be. Albeit a little "creative" engineering, and a couple of 1/4 watt resistors laying around, the result is a happy PC2/BUSA.
And FYI, the 600 ohms was not in series, it was put in parallel to "load" the signal.
You guys have got to check out the paint on RPM's bike. I think you call it a "flip-flop" purple/blue/??? colors. Whatever you call it, words don't do it justice. He's got to post some pics for people to see!!! It's AWESOME!!!
Dave
[This message has been edited by DaveO (edited 09 August 2000).]
G
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DaveO clever loading it parallel rather than series, seems to me that you dropped any potential current draw thru the resistor to microamps, thus no chance of cooking it in the future.
Nice work.
Nice work.
Frank Adams
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Where did you put the 1/4 resistors at?
Remember, this was a fix for my problem, and I only did it to get it working until I figure out why the voltage is so high. I put the resistor between the green and blue wires coming up from the CPS, at the connector. I'm starting to think that maybe the chrome plating on the side cover may have something to do with the increased magnetism/voltage. Dynojet claims that Harley's that come wi5th chrome cover often have similar problems, so I'm gonna try a stock black one.
OB_cbxchris
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Funny you should mention chrome covers...both mine have them...I was assured that was no problem. Your problem was eactly opposite from mine....I had low voltage...thus I think moving the sensor closer helped. Gald to see you have it repaired...makes me wonder if I should have tried another route...but hell I`m happy at least it runs fine now......
OB_NumbNuts
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Now that is interesting..................
chrome covers hhhhmmmmmmmmmm
any way of swapping them over cbxchris, just to see??
that would be good research!!
Nuts
chrome covers hhhhmmmmmmmmmm
any way of swapping them over cbxchris, just to see??
that would be good research!!
Nuts
Frank Adams
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I have a stock black cover I'll trade anyone even up for a chrome one.
I'll do the R&D!
Sounds fair to Me!!! hahaha....
I'll do the R&D!
Sounds fair to Me!!! hahaha....
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