Part 1: The lever saga (stock lever)

[Goatkart]

did you find any inclusions in any of the levers?

No, not really, the samples that i have examined thus far all looked pretty clean and pure...

The stock lever suffered from a little bit of porosity, minor though, but otherwise looked fairly clean from what little i have seen thus far...

The pazzo and chazzo both looked very good with no visable flaws to the naked eye, or under optical microscope, and from what i saw so far, i wouldnt expect any flaws..

However, i havent sectioned the entire levers yet, only a few spots, as im trying to conserve my limited sample supply...


In regards to the aluminum grade.... i imagine they could easily make them cheaper, and there is definitly a built in profit of i would bet 100%... Aluminum is actually remarkably cheap stuff... Last i looked it up, 6061 t6 aluminum bar was about $5.50/ kilogram (in 2007)... 50 grams a lever, so enough MATERIAL for 100 levers (assumes unrealistic 100% waste reclimation/recycle from cnc process)... Initial costs are of course high, recouping programming, and opperator expenses... but beyond that it becomes all materials and how fast you can sell em..

However, numbers sell... its like branding..

recognisable grades, and materials always equate in a price hike... there is a reason they put this information in the advertisement

6061 aluminum.."aircraft quality"..... 4340 steel... titanium, etc.

even when the material is MASSIVE over kill, or completly worthless or pointless (titanium fits this bill FREQUENTLY) the attachment of the implied quality means it can be sold for 10,20,40,50 + dollars more...

 

[Merlot]

So, the BIG SURPRISE...


Sorry to say people, the chazzo's were a big FAIL....


The average hardness vickers value was only 95.19... with a standard deviation of 2.91.. (if this was a 6061 t6 i was testing for real, it would get a big ol NO PASS stamp, and further evaluation to see what the hell went wrong, as this is a SIGNIFICANT WTF as far as i am concerned)

WORSE THAN THE STOCK LEVER!!!!

This is why i retested all of the samples, because i couldnt believe my eyes!!


NOW BEFORE THE PAZZO BANDWAGON GETS GOING...


this actually has a few qualifiers...



First: while the average hardness value was lower than stock, the standard deviation actually keeps it in a range over all slightly better than stock... There were a signficant number of "outliers" in the stock lever both high and low, where as the chinese sample was fairly well uniform...

Second:

I have yet to establish WHY it was so low... If this is in fact a 6061 aluminum alloy, an obvious problem might be the heat treatment... a likely scenerio is that the foundry that did the treatment didnt do the hardening process correctly or completly, which would leave a similar alloy, significantly softer... A rush job if you will, or a poorly controlled furnace... maybe they left it in too long, or not long enough trying to produce large quantities...

THIS COULD BE FIXED.... depending on if the alloy was over or under aged, if under aged, it could be tossed into a 350 degree oven, left for 40 minutes, and you would have a part that was great... However, if it was overaged, then it would need to be normalised, and re-treated, which would require temperatures of over 800F... An oven most couldnt get ahold of...


It could also just be a total lie and not a 6061 alloy what so ever... SEM/EDS can discover this later on...


THIRD... ANY of these levers will actually work just fine... the stress being put on any lever is minor compared to their fracture or yield strengths... its more likely to have a failure from something else first... while the chinese lever is not as good of a material quality, it is certainly a superior design to that of the stock lever, and generally as good as the pazzo... so its actual strength is somewhere between the pazzo and stocker best guess...


An important thing to remember is, STRESS IS A FUNCTION OFTHE APPLIED FORCE DIVIDED BY CROSS SECTIONAL AREA...


that is, for an applied force, the larger its cross sectional area, the less stress it feels....

this is why if i gave you 1/2 inch steel rod, you would likely never bend it(by hand of course)... if i give you a 1/32 inch rod, you would likely make a curly cue....

then again, if i made it into a tempered martensite, you might not be able to bend either of them

However, thats because martensite has a hardness value MAGNITUDES higher than standard iron carbon steel...

Anyhow, the testing is moving on to phase two now if i get the chance, as i am horribly curious now whats going on with those chinese levers....









PERSONALLY....

I think its a personal choice as the chance of a chinese lever failing is similar to that of the stock lever if not likely less than that.. recalling again the chinese levers actually have a superior design in regards to strength reinforcement... they are copies of pazzos in most ways after all... (except apparently in strength!!) Do i think that pazzo justifies their expense.... MMMM no... the over all appearance, and functional quality compared to a pazzo was nearly identical... the difference in material qualities, will likely never come into play for anyone my guess... The force being applied to a lever to compress the hydraulics is quite small, and as some of you recall, RusselJ and Blanca both gave them a physical once over hahaha...


So, last bit, i think ill try and get to heat treatments next week if i can get time with a furnace, as it will take a few hours worth of time....

Precipitation hardening will take about 2-3 hours depending, and normalising it an hour or two ISH....

ALSO, sem testing to come yet as well...





LET THE CONTROVERSY BEGIN!


ALSO, for those interested, i took some shots with the black chrome upper fairing pieces test fit.... reviewing those next LOL

Oh yes that i cant wait.

 

[OneTrueRider]

Nicely done, well written and thought out. I enjoyed the suspense and twists in regards to the testing results.

Since the results are just as I had suspected, I'm sold.

No way I'm paying for Pazzo's name

 

[Sous]

Great post, thanks for the results in the test. I am happy with my purchase of Chazzos.

 

[OneTrueRider]

Wow, this thread sure died fast.

No comments from the Pro Pazzo Camp ???

It would be interesting to see a poll to track how many people are buying new levers and which brand they are buying, hint, hint.

 

[racerV]

Bump

 

[Goatkart]

Not much new to report.... annealed both levers and took new hardness tests.... but havent had time to etch the samples and check micro structure...

crazy busy lately...

 

[Posser]

Wow, this thread sure died fast.

No comments from the Pro Pazzo Camp ???

It would be interesting to see a poll to track how many people are buying new levers and which brand they are buying, hint, hint.

I ordered mine before this testing began but installed them afterward with a greater sense of confidence. I haven't tried them above 0mph yet but they sure look and feel nice

 

[busa dave]

Wow, this thread sure died fast.

No comments from the Pro Pazzo Camp ???

It would be interesting to see a poll to track how many people are buying new levers and which brand they are buying, hint, hint.

Well as the testing shows.....you get what you pay for. I paid for quality lever that were advertised as 6061 T6 and that is what i received.

The chazzo's ...........who knows.

 

[RussellJ]

Well as the testing shows.....you get what you pay for. I paid for quality lever that were advertised as 6061 T6 and that is what i received.

The chazzo's ...........who knows.

Wrong because your 6061 T6 Shouldnt cost 200 bucks

And I am also waiting for your PM on the group buy

 

[racerV]

+1

 

[busa dave]

Wrong because your 6061 T6 Shouldnt cost 200 bucks

And I am also waiting for your PM on the group buy

And a gallon of gas shouldn't cost $4.00 a gal. but it does. I see it all the time in the steel industry. Whenever we do jobs for power plants and other high profile company's. we are required to use material with certs. It cost's quite a bit more to use quality material.

pm sent on the group buy.

 

[racerV]

And a gallon of gas shouldn't cost $4.00 a gal. but it does. I see it all the time in the steel industry. Whenever we do jobs for power plants and other high profile company's. we are required to use material with certs. It cost's quite a bit more to use quality material.

pm sent on the group buy.

You sound like a Harley owner trying to justify his purchase....I'm just sayin'

 

[Tufbusa]

Wrong because your 6061 T6 Shouldnt cost 200 bucks

Please Russell, give us a detailed explaination of that statement!

If you know exact cost, please share!

 

[Rainbow7]

I'm waiting for Russell to use a WP grenade on his levers.

 

[Tufbusa]

And a gallon of gas shouldn't cost $4.00 a gal. but it does. I see it all the time in the steel industry. Whenever we do jobs for power plants and other high profile company's. we are required to use material with certs. It cost's quite a bit more to use quality material.

pm sent on the group buy.

You sound like a Harley owner trying to justify his purchase....I'm just sayin'

And if Boeing used your theory of justifcation in choosing materials (Looks exactly the same) bodily insurance for air travel would likely cost $4.00 a mile as well. I'm just sayin!

 

[busa dave]

You sound like a Harley owner trying to justify his purchase....I'm just sayin'

No sir. couldn't be further from the truth. I push my bike and myself to the limits. For that reason I don't skimp on anything for my bike . Maybe you putt your bike around like a harley owner. in that case enjoy your chink levers and Taiwan rotors. I'm sure they will hold up fine for your use.

 

[racerV]

No sir. couldn't be further from the truth. I push my bike and myself to the limits. For that reason I don't skimp on anything for my bike . Maybe you putt your bike around like a harley owner. in that case enjoy your chink levers and Taiwan rotors. I'm sure they will hold up fine for your use.

I'll let you be the first to know when they let me down.

 

[busa dave]

I hope that never happens

 

[racerV]

I hope that never happens

Me too