new turbo , burnt piston

[gm1300]

what do i need to do to get 250 reliable horsepower on pump gas ?

can it be done ?

here is what i was told to do . je turbo pistons and spacer plate . and add an oil cooler .

is this good? do i need to do anything else ?

can the stock fuel system handle 250 hp and 7 to 10 lbs of boost ?

i guess the pistons and spacer plate will help but what else do i need to do ?

i want to be able to ride my bike everywhere on pump gas and beat the hell out of it , can it be done and have 250 hp .

thanks in advance


.

 

[STUNNAH]

Evidently it can't be done with a Hahn system...Do you have injection or and intercooler???You weren't running a fuel mix either...See for riders like you and I this is the down side of boost...You had a boost spike and that's what blew your motor...Your tuner should have been able to tell you this...Do you have a tuner or did you do the install yourself???Not slamming you but this is the shat we need to know...

 

[MidnightBusainSD]

Yes it can but you had boost creep and well a spike i think there is some updateing to be done on the hahn kits so they don't do that but there are plenty of people around that run 250 easy on stock injectors and on pump fuel

these are just some of the hard aches ya learn when ya get a turbo bike i'm new to turbo bikes also and i'm also haveing my troubles as well hopeing i can get them reslolved before i loose total faith in havieng a turbo bike

 

[gm1300]

Do you have injection or and intercooler???You weren't running a fuel mix either...Do you have a tuner or did you do the install yourself???

no injection , no intercooler , yes i had a tuner

 

[STUNNAH]

Do you have injection or and intercooler???You weren't running a fuel mix either...Do you have a tuner or did you do the install yourself???

no injection , no intercooler , yes i had a tuner

Either combo of water/intercooler with a race fuel mix will help with predetonation and give a buffer when you have a boost spike or creep...Added safety features...With my Velocity Stage 1 street kit it is supposedly safe with a race fuel mix to 8pds of boost...At the recommendation of NinjaEater I included the water injection...Something to consider while your down for repair...

 

[gm1300]

what do i need to do to be able to run on pump gas ?

 

[STUNNAH]

what do i need to do to be able to run on pump gas ?

Lower you boost to say 6pds and leave it there...Make sure the bike is getting the adequate amount of fuel via the dyno could even run a little rich and you should not have any other problems...If your going to make a high speed run use a race fuel mix...But from the sound of things I wouldn't ever run more than 6pds with your system just for the sake of a safe zone...

 

[gm1300]

interesting

 

[Rosco]

Just my two cents worth but these are the things I consider vital for reliability. I dont know what you get in a Hahn kit

Intercooler
98 octane premium pump gas
Fuel computer with map sensor, my unit retards the timing as boost comes on and is set to go 100% injector duty if boost exceeds 10psi. With the over size injectors this will almost stall out the engine if the waste gate fails and hopefully save the day.

All of the above will work to prevent detonation.

I really feel a computer which can be mapped on MAP as well as throttle position is the key to reliable power.

A motec style computer can also handle stuff like nox control, extra injectors, eletronic boost control ect, ect.

Just a few thoughts

Cheers
Ross



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[MET]

The question is did you have a good tuner. the answer is NO you did not. A hahn kit done right will be able to push well over 300hp. Lots of modifications will be needed. However a hahn kit pushing 240-260hp is very reliable if done right. You should not be getting boost creep at 6lbs of boost, though it sounds like you did. It also sounds like you did not have much in the negative timing and your fuel mix was to lean. I think I mentioned before check everything else also like the head and the valves.

 

[suzuki4life]

The question is did you have a good tuner.  the answer is NO you did not.  A hahn kit done right will be able to push well over 300hp.  Lots of modifications will be needed.  However a hahn kit pushing 240-260hp is very reliable if done right. You should not be getting boost creep at 6lbs of boost, though it sounds like you did.  It also sounds like you did not have much in the negative timing and your fuel mix was to lean.  I think I mentioned before check everything else also like the head and the valves.

well always figure the engine is seeing higher than your guage reads. So 7 psi on the gauge might had been 8-10 at the engine. Those spikes could had been in the teens EASILY. Why right? Well pressure loss to the rubber hose, pressure leaks, inaccurate guage etc.

You asked about the kit from the beginning and went againist everyone's suggestion, TO AVOID HAHN. BUT now you have jumped in with 2 feet.

IF you are SURE you will not want a bigger kit, I'd advise againt building the motor up(there' just no need to waste the cash. Odds are you can find stock pistons for next to nothing.
IF you are even considering wanting a bigger kit, sell the hahan now and buy the bigger kit NOW.

Anyway, 7 psi pump gas ( I advise a mix of race gas for good measure and NOT even attempting high speed runs without race gas) + water injection and allowing Motorhead to tune the bike properly using a pc usb.

 

[gm1300]

i know i dont want a bigger kit for this bike .

in the future i may build another busa with a big hp turbo  and a longer swigarm and run race gas and use it for for top speed only , but this bike i want as my reliable daily driver on pump gas  

i am starting to doubt that i can have 250 hp on pump gas without any issues . i want to be able to ride the piss out of the bike with pump gas .

if i have to lower the boost and end up with about 220 hp that is fine .

i may just make it a 2 stage system and run like 5 lbs of boost on the low stage(approx 220 to 230 hp) so i can run on pump gas and then have the other stage like 300 hp for when i want to run race gas and feel more power

.



<!--EDIT|gm1300
Reason for Edit: None given...|1121148499 -->

 

[MET]

i know i dont want a bigger kit for this bike .

in the future i may build another busa with a big hp turbo  and a longer swigarm and run race gas and use it for for top speed only , but this bike i want as my reliable daily driver on pump gas  

i am starting to doubt that i can have 250 hp on pump gas without any issues . i want to be able to ride the piss out of the bike with pump gas .

if i have to lower the boost and end up with about 220 hp that is fine .

i may just make it a 2 stage system and run like 5 lbs of boost on the low stage(approx 220 to 230 hp) so i can run on pump gas and then have the other stage like 300 hp for when i want to run race gas and feel more power

.

If you are looking at getting 220-300hp you need something that has more variations. Velocity, NLR, Getto etc. stage 2 type systems The Hahn is a completly different animal if you do all of the modifications that I have done, which is why the guys pointed this out before.

ALSO I WILL BE A BROKEN RECORD AGAIN. TUNE BY AN EXPERT NOT JUST BY SOMEONE WHO IS GOOD, NO MATTER WHAT KIT.

 

[him]

so you have to make a special concoction to run a turbo with pump gas? Is it the kit that cause the detonation?

 

[MET]

so you have to make a special concoction to run a turbo with pump gas? Is it the kit that cause the detonation?

No you just have to have it done right. Systems with double injectors come on when needed. Computer on board for the system monitors when it is needed. As others have stated if you are running a high end spped run, get good high octane fuel.

 

[STUNNAH]

so you have to make a special concoction to run a turbo  with pump gas?  Is it the kit that cause the detonation?

No you just have to have it done right.  Systems with double injectors come on when needed.  Computer on board for the system monitors when it is needed.  As others have stated if you are running a high end spped run, get good high octane fuel.

Every mechanic simply cannot work on a turbo...There's so much more than just slapping it on...Chance's are that most mechanics are clueless to a turbo install simply because they have never done one...I don't have any skills but believe me what little I have have grown because I did some of the problem solving with my system...If you run into someone that has done an install that has not had any issue still be skeptical...Go with the best installer that you can and you will decrease the potential of having any issues down the road...

 

[suzuki4life]

i know i dont want a bigger kit for this bike .

in the future i may build another busa with a big hp turbo  and a longer swigarm and run race gas and use it for for top speed only , but this bike i want as my reliable daily driver on pump gas  

i am starting to doubt that i can have 250 hp on pump gas without any issues . i want to be able to ride the piss out of the bike with pump gas .

if i have to lower the boost and end up with about 220 hp that is fine .

i may just make it a 2 stage system and run like 5 lbs of boost on the low stage(approx 220 to 230 hp) so i can run on pump gas and then have the other stage like 300 hp for when i want to run race gas and feel more power

.

first off 240-250 on 93-94 octane is VERY do-able BUT you will not be doing top speed runs without race gas or water injection. IF you spend the cash on a water injection system and you already HAVE a burnt piston I advise you to get MOTORHEAD to replace the piston(s), add a spacer plate and then run 8 psi for about 270 hp. YOU NEED TUNED. The install may had been 100% correct but it seems your map might had toasted your piston.

IF you then want a 2 stage system, look into an external wastegate (contact smithabusa from SH.org) and have Motorhead install a 5th injector setup. With proper tuning, a boost controller, gate upgrade and water injection there is no reason you can't have what you want.


HOWEVER I still advise you to sell the kit and buy a better base.

Let's figure
hahn kit $3300
5th injector $400
base model boost controller $150
water injection $650
watsegate upgrade $650
_
$5150

for ballpark same cash:

Ghetto kit $4K(includes wastegate "upgrade")
intercooler $1500 (priced super high I think its about $1k)
____
$5500
this will produce about 270 hp. You can do top end runs on pump fuel. Its upgradable into the 400's hp range as you have cash or want more. You won't have the boost creep issues the hahn kit will have. Stainless parts instead of mild steel.

If you list your hahn on ebay, I'd bet it to go for $3000-3300 because of its age.

 

[MET]

i know i dont want a bigger kit for this bike .

in the future i may build another busa with a big hp turbo  and a longer swigarm and run race gas and use it for for top speed only , but this bike i want as my reliable daily driver on pump gas  

i am starting to doubt that i can have 250 hp on pump gas without any issues . i want to be able to ride the piss out of the bike with pump gas .

if i have to lower the boost and end up with about 220 hp that is fine .

i may just make it a 2 stage system and run like 5 lbs of boost on the low stage(approx 220 to 230 hp) so i can run on pump gas and then have the other stage like 300 hp for when i want to run race gas and feel more power

.

first off 240-250 on 93-94 octane is VERY do-able BUT you will not be doing top speed runs without race gas or water injection. IF you spend the cash on a water injection system and you already HAVE a burnt piston I advise you to get MOTORHEAD to replace the piston(s), add a spacer plate and then run 8 psi for about 270 hp. YOU NEED TUNED. The install may had been 100% correct but it seems your map might had toasted your piston.

IF you then want a 2 stage system, look into an external wastegate (contact smithabusa from SH.org) and have Motorhead install a 5th injector setup. With proper tuning, a boost controller, gate upgrade and water injection there is no reason you can't have what you want.


HOWEVER I still advise you to sell the kit and buy a better base.

Let's figure
hahn kit $3300
5th injector $400
base model boost controller $150
water injection $650
watsegate upgrade $650
_
$5150

for ballpark same cash:

Ghetto kit $4K(includes wastegate "upgrade")
intercooler $1500 (priced super high I think its about $1k)
____
$5500
this will produce about 270 hp. You can do top end runs on pump fuel. Its upgradable into the 400's hp range as you have cash or want more. You won't have the boost creep issues the hahn kit will have. Stainless parts instead of mild steel.

If you list your hahn on ebay, I'd bet it to go for $3000-3300 because of its age.

All sound advise.........

 

[Uncle Bob]

any time you start pushing the envolope *for a given octane*, you are riding the very edge of motor-go-boom, and it requires premium tuning, premium components and premium FUEL (do you really know for sure that 92 octane is really 92 octane?)

If you want 300 HP off of pump gas, can it be done? Definitely.

Can you do it with lots of safety built into the system to prevent possible issues? Very unlikely.

And this isn't even discussing what tuning, parts, options, etc that are involved.

I am always pushing the envolope on my bike, I'll get it running spot on, I get the tuning exactly as I want it, and then I go and turn up the boost up another 1/2 pound....I just like playing with fire

I won't make suggestions for kits, because people that have already responded are a lot more knowledgable on them than me, but you either need to keep your goals realistic, or melt several credit cards trying to achieve your goal (well, that might happen even if the goals are realistic)....but unfortunately, that is the way it is.....

 

[gm1300]

thanks for the feedback