Need some advice on Welding

[thrasherfox]

Ok, So there have been some mods I wanted to do on the Busa that requires welding.

I am now working on a Go-Car project with my sons.

Thinking about building go carts from scratch.

Also thinking about giving it a shot at building my own cruiser / chopper.

Everything I am starting to get excite about doing requires welding to some extent. or a lot of extent.

The last experience I had with welding was in high school,, lets see before WW II I think (just kidding.. sort of

)

So to start off with, I bought a mig welder. It has 2 settings for heat Min and Max

It has a control knob for wire speed.

I have been practicing with it and yesterday I was welding 1/4 steel together, my last piece it took me 10 minutes with a 5 pound sledge hammer to break the weld. I actually started to bend the 1/4 steel before the weld broke.

Here is my dilemma.

1) My welds look like crap, instead of a nice pretty weld like you normally see, mine is a bunch of globs of molten crap, looks like a disease. So I figure I am doing something wrong.

2) Aside from beating the steel with a hammer to break to the weld to test it. What is the best way to test a weld or examine a weld to ensure it is a good weld?

3) I know welding takes a lot of practice and technique but aside from that, what is my best course of action for learning?

a) Take a welding class in a near by college for a semester>
b) Purchase a book on welding and read it? I saw one at home depot for $27.00
c) Learn what I can from any input here and on the next and just practice practice practice..

Just like most everyone else, I am time limited, so if going to college is not an absolute necessity, at this time I would like to pass on that option if possible.

If anyone has any advice on welding and wouldn’t mind taking the time to provide me with some tips that would be great.

If any of you experienced welders out there feel I am at a stage where the only way I can get good is to take some class either from a college or a specialized school, then let me know that.

If anyone has a recommendation on any good welding books that are just kick but and would help me, please pass that info along.

Thanks everyone.

Ron

 

[Mikey D]

Ron,

Next time yer out here, I'll teach ya.  The best way to learn is (if possible) go get a job doing it.  

What you have described is called "bird shid" welds.  the molten metal has globed up on the top & yer gettin no penetration.

First things first:

1. Do you have a bottle of inert gas (CO2 or a mix of CO2 & Argon) on yer welder?  If not you do not have a Mig welder (Metalic Inert Gas) but rather a wire feed welder.  

1a. Is the wire your feeding flux cored? (Necessary if you do not have a bottle)

2. MIG welders are designed for light weight steel. usually 1/8" or less.  Yo should not ever be able to break a weld, especially with only a sledge hammer, especialy 1/4" plate.  The weld should be as strong (or stronger) than the plate.  Try to break a piece of 1/4 plate with a sledge and you'll see what I'm talking about.

3. If you wish to build Kart chasises (SP) I would reccomend using 1-1/4" tubing (round) with a .093 (3/32") wall thickness.  This is more than strong enough for a Kart and weldable with a MIG.  (I'l Post picts of mine)

4. In order to use round tubing you'll need to notch the ends to form a T.  The best way is to use a shear type notcher. this one linkey to pipe notcher is the best set up I have found.  the hole saw method sucks (I have used it).  They even have a chassis building starter kit.

5. Tips on welding with a mig.  Keep yer gas flow to around 25 on the guage.  when you weld, sweep the torch (wire feed gun) from one piece to the other, keeping the puddle on both.  This will drop your fillet height and spread the force/strength of the weld.  If your getting too high a weld, increase the current, too low or burning through, decrease the current.

6. Testing welds.  Your welds should not break period.  You should be able to tear the steel but not break the weld.

RSVP with any more questions, I gotta get to work.  (Yes I'm going to go welding!  

)

 

[BulletTrain]

I've done LOTS of welding on automotive sheet metal. Put in a LOT of quarter panels, floor pans, etc... I absolutely LOVE weldin' with a MIG welder. I'd love to help ya out. Only problem is, I have always set the welder by "feel" so I can't really tell you how to set yours up properly.

I'd love to have a MIG welder and have always wanted to try TIG welding as well.

As for testing welds, when I took welding as part of my auto body training in technical school (was a school and not a technical college back when I went. Now it's a college. Damn, I just missed bein' college edumakatid.

) they done two tests. They bent the two fused plates until it either reached a certain degree of bend, or it cracked/broke. For the other test they sent the pieces off and had 'em x-rayed for pinholes, voids, cracks, etc... Passed that one too.

Judgin' by the way you describe your welds it sounds like you're maybe movin' the tip too fast for the wire speed setting, or maybe the speed setting is too slow, causing breaks in the "action" and you're gettin' splatter when the action breaks and starts back. Hard to put that into words... Luckily I learned to torch weld before learning to MIG. I basically work a MIG tip like I would a torch. I get a "pool" of molten shid started and I just make little "C" shaped movements along the jointwith the ends of the "C" on the pieces being joined and the back of the "C" toward where I started. I end up with something similar to the "stack of dimes" look, kind of like the seam on the busa frame, except on a smaller size scale when workin' with thin auto sheet metal.

I'm MUCH better at actually doin' it than I am explainin' it though. If I had a MIG I'd play around and see if I could figure out how to explain it better. Unfortunately I've never owned one. Always borrowed one or used units owned by shops I worked in.

Some day I hope I will be able to afford a MIG and a TIG and be able to play around with metal fabrication. I've always enjoyed workin' with metal...

 

[BulletTrain]

when you weld, sweep the torch (wire feed gun) from one piece to the other, keeping the puddle on both. This will drop your fillet height and spread the force/strength of the weld.

Damn, that's what I was tryin' to say with all that "C" shid...

I forgot Mikey was our resident welder. Hey Mikey, you mess with TIG? I'd love to learn to use one!

 

[PACIFICBUSA]

Very nice....

Thrash...I'd recommend shaving first, and then make sure you have all your gear on. Then, simply snap the throttle from 45 to 55 RPMS in one smooth motion.

Heheh...just kiddin bro. Sounds like BT and Mikey got ya covered...just thought I'd throw in random shid to make it humorous.

 

[thrasherfox]

Thanks everyone.

I think my current (no pun intended) problems is a combination of wire speed and heat setting.

It is a MIG welder Mikey, no gas, yes I am using Flux-Cored

I bought a book today on the way home at Home depot. Covers MIG and TIG welding.. I am confidant some day I will master welding, I usually accomplish whatever I set my mind to.. I hope anyway

I mean welders don't get paid $30.00 per hour and up for no reason. So I know it is not going to be easy to master..

But I am excite about the possibility of me mastering it some day, lots of stuff I would like to do.

BT - I got the MIG welder at Harbor Freight. It was on sale for $119.00

Here is the link

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44567


And I purchased a solar powered auto darkening helmet. For $119.00

Here is the link to it

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47277


Here is another one, normally $99.00 on sale for $49.00

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=91212


The welder only has like a 18% duty cycle. But if you really wanted to have your own welder for home stuff and messing around you could get hooked up for under $200.00


Mikey - the next time I am out that way I will hook up with you and do some ridin and weldin

Thanks again guys.

Ron

 

[BulletTrain]

It is a MIG welder Mikey, no gas, yes I am using Flux-Cored

< snip >

BT - I got the MIG welder at Harbor Freight. It was on sale for $119.00

Here is the link

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44567

Actually, the one at that link is not a true MIG welder. As Mikey stated in his post, MIG stands for Metallic Inert Gas. The gas is what makes it a MIG welder. The ones that don't use a bottle of gas are considered "wire feed" welders. They require the flux core because you're not usin' the inert gas associated with the true MIG welders. Notice that that site refers to "normal MIG" welders that use gas and regulators. The name "MIG-100" is simply a model name. Only welders that use gas are true MIG welders.

I'm not sayin' they're inferior. I've never used one so I can't say. All of 'em I've welded with used gas so I can't help ya on how to use the flux wire welders. I'm sure Mikey can though. Maybe he'll find time to fill us in on this. Keep me updated on your progress with that welder. It's got a nice price tag if it works out.

 

[Saberknight]

Hey Thrasher........... Those guys covered all the bases.

Sounds like heat up wire feed down.

Best plan............. c) Practice,practice pratice.

For testing.........The best is to actually see the work while welding. With full penetration,you would see the metal melt,and the wire fill the void. On pipe,or other tubing. You will burn right through,and then see the wire fill the hole. That would be perfect. That takes practice

Something that you can do to help..........Is preheat the metal. Using a torch of some kind. Heat the area you want to weld. It will remove some of the scale,oil,and moisture. Since you are a beginner.....Try to make your joints as tight as possible. Later,after lots of practice You will want a slight gap.

That helmet you got will help a lot. I have one also

Grab a bunch of scrap,and play. Vary your heat,and wire speed. Also the speed you move the gun. If the gun is ever pushing away from the material? Feed speed too high.

You can email me anytime. You will have to get a welder with some type of gas if you want to weld aluminum,or other exotic metals. The gas is to remove the oxygen. The high heat from welding burns the oxygen,and oxidizes the metal. A bad thing . For instance if you wanted to weld titanium? You have to have gas on both sides of the weld. Very high tech,lots of $$$$

Hope you do well building that cart for the kids.............It is for the kids right

 

[thrasherfox]

Hey Thrasher........... Those guys covered all the bases.

Sounds like heat up wire feed down.

Best plan............. c) Practice,practice pratice.

For testing.........The best is to actually see the work while welding. With full penetration,you would see the metal melt,and the wire fill the void. On pipe,or other tubing. You will burn right through,and then see the wire fill the hole. That would be perfect. That takes practice

Something that you can do to help..........Is preheat the metal. Using a torch of some kind. Heat the area you want to weld. It will remove some of the scale,oil,and moisture. Since you are a beginner.....Try to make your joints as tight as possible. Later,after lots of practice You will want a slight gap.

That helmet you got will help a lot. I have one also

Grab a bunch of scrap,and play. Vary your heat,and wire speed. Also the speed you move the gun. If the gun is ever pushing away from the material? Feed speed too high.

You can email me anytime. You will have to get a welder with some type of gas if you want to weld aluminum,or other exotic metals. The gas is to remove the oxygen. The high heat from welding burns the oxygen,and oxidizes the metal. A bad thing . For instance if you wanted to weld titanium? You have to have gas on both sides of the weld. Very high tech,lots of $$$$

Hope you do well building that cart for the kids.............It is for the kids right

Uhhhh yeah kids right... kids thats it

Man you know better than that, the only reason us guys have kids is so we can have a second child hood and use the kids as an excuse

I just found out today that the city next to us is planning on building a kart race track!! kind of interesting timeing.. Hmm wonder if cart rasing is in my future.. ehem I mean my boys future....

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[rubbersidedown]

Ron if ya wanna do a nice weld get rid of that piece of shid ya bought.

Sorry man...you only hurt the ones you love.

yer gonna try an' weld with a hundred dollar welder.

I paid 750.oo plus 80.oo for a conversion kit + ? for the bottle. An' mine is considered "Lower end".

Mikey was right in all counts.

but here's a few more tips.....
Metal has to be super clean,grind it,wire wheel it, whatever, but make it shinny prior to welding.
Flux core works better one direction, "pulling it" if memory serves.
Clean yer nozzle every 20/30 seconds of duty time.... it'll clog with that flux shid( just rap the brass nozzle against yer concrete shop floor , or unscrew it after cooling)

If that thing you bought is 110/120 volt(cant remember what yer usin' down there) it doesn't have the juice.

Buy a rig thats 220/240 volt.

Flux core is crappy Ron, it just is .

I went out to the garage an' blasted a few pics for ya, hopefully things will make more sense.


pic: what you may have bought is just the box(red arrow)
to be a mig it has to have a bottle attached to it(orange arrow)

 

[rubbersidedown]

....BT was talkin about wire speed (green arrow)

but you'll also have to play with juice...(other arrows)

 

[rubbersidedown]

Mikey was talkin' about gas settings....the green arrow tells you how much juice you have left in the bottle.

The orange arrow points to the gage that controls how much gas goes down the tube...

I use a product called Blueshield...its 75% argon 25% O2.

The red arrow points to the setting you'll wanna use...
not enuff.....bad welds.... too much.....waste money.

 

[rubbersidedown]

what I bought Ron is what they call a DUAL MIG .

 You can use flux or gas .

  It started out as a wire feed welder, till I bought the conversion kit.

   You can switch the polarity of the juice to go from flux to gas.

   Flux uses a positive ground .     Gas uses a negative ground.

   If you bought yerself a dual, make sure you are using the polarity that yer manufactures recomends with flux core.

   The pic shows the 2 leads on my unit that CAN be switched.



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[rubbersidedown]

last one Ron....

flux core will always provide you with this shiddy splatter.

A nice mig wont....


red shows big ugly lumps....green shows splatter....

Flux blows my friend.


hav a nice bead.....RSD.

 

[thrasherfox]

WOW.. thank you very much RSD for the step by step..

Yeah I know it is a cheap welder, I just figured it would be something I could learn on.. Figure if I can get good enough to make decent welds with a low end welder then if and when I get a good quality one, it should be easier to make god welds and also I should appreciate a good quality welder more.

Besides that, the welder was a gift from my dad, so cant look a gift horse in the mouth

But I totally understand what you mean about being a low quality welder and I respect your input, especially with all the pics and descriptions.. good info

Dang...!! it seems like everyone knows how to weld but me!!! lol

My dad had told me that the mig by itself would be good for home stuff, he did say however it was not meant for large jobs and he did mention that in order to weld lighter metals you need gas.

Thanks again sir (and Mikey and BT for your input) and cant forget Pacman for the shaven advice, at least if I shave and I make a mistake the hairs wont go up in flames!! snicker snicker... ehem...

If I get better and get the welding bug I will buy better equipment down the road..


Thanks all

Ron

 

[BulletTrain]

One last tip, Ron. Do NOT weld in tennis shoes! Weld in DENIM pants OVER boots. I had tennis shoes on once while weldin' a quarter panel into a Honda Accord and had a chunk of hot shid drop in behind the tongue of the shoe. It was part of my ankle by the time I could get to it!

That shid HURT!

Just thought I'd share that with ya.

 

[PACIFICBUSA]

very very nice....

I think I'll bookmark this page....

 

[monsterspeedfreak]

Hey Ron.......everyone else said it straight....loose the welder but fast bro.......good starting welder is a miller 210 mig, or a 185 if yer lookin for something a little cheaper.....and USE GAS.....flux core blows big time!!!!
I started welding when I was 9 years old, and have been welding like a maniac ever since....currently own 4 welders all set up for a different purpose.....need any help pm me.....I'd be happy to help.

 

[thrasherfox]

Hey Ron.......everyone else said it straight....loose the welder but fast bro.......good starting welder is a miller 210 mig, or a 185 if yer lookin for something a little cheaper.....and USE GAS.....flux core blows big time!!!!
I started welding when I was 9 years old, and have been welding like a maniac ever since....currently own 4 welders all set up for a different purpose.....need any help pm me.....I'd be happy to help.

Like I said, I must be the only gy on the planet that does not know how to weld

Actually, after getting the input from this thread, reading the welding book I bought today and adjusting the wire feed, just did two welds and I don't think they look two bad, and they are holding solid.

One of my problems was I did not know the process of welding, now that I know the process and it makes sense I know what to look for.

Example, I didn't realize that the process is to melt the exiting metal and the wire is used to fill in the area that you melted. I know that might sound trivial to those of you that weld, but once that clicked, everything kind of made sense.

I took pictures of the two things I welded tonight, but I was way to close and they were too blurry, I will try and take pics tomorrow to post for criticism. I mean I know they will look like crap to everyone. But maybe someone might see something they can point out I am doing wrong.

Anyway, all the advice was great. After the welds tonight I am thinking I am getting it

I will check out those welders that were suggested..

Ron



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[monsterspeedfreak]

Great to hear bro...practice does make nearly perfect....add gas for perfection