Marine corps motorcycle fatalities.

bigoltool

bigoltool

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Gotta love the press! I am getting sick of reading these half wit compilations. Why can't someone with journalistic talent and integrity ever write a motorcycle story. :banghead:

I think it is great that the military is offering and enforcing the training but the story doesn't even bother to dig into any of the facts involved in the wrecks beyond the motorcyle.
 
I have seen much worse writing than this.. at least they did not go off on half baked numbers... you know what it made me think?

Free Track days for Active duty personnel... I would be willing to bet it slows down 8 of 10 street riders....
 
I just had to go through the new Sports Bike riders course here on base.

wasn’t too impressed. it is new however I am sure it will be fine tuned and tweaked.

I am appreciative of what they are trying to accomplish, but I almost feel it is a knee jerk reaction to a problem that needs to be addressed in a different manner.

But yes, there is a problem with motorcycle fatalities in the Navy and the Marine Corps.

I think the Navy's statistics are that all read it.. 100% of motorcycle fatalities last year for Navy members were on sports bikes. non one cruiser, all sports bikes.

This shines a huge spotlight on our community
 
Media is the problem. Think about it: would you choose to hang around someone who was the biggest gossip-munger, had nothing good to say about anyone, and constantly told you negative things? Probably not.

Just say no. "News" and press IS OPTIONAL in life
 
You notice they don't tell you the cause of the accidents, whether they were cause by the rider or by a cager not paying attention. I would like o see that info. I hear alot about crashes and I still ride. It is my choice to do so and I know the risk, but I am more afraid of ridiing in town due to the people on their mobile phones then of me running the roads. I know my limits and yes I do test them from time to time just in case someone doesn't see me. You will probably find out the in some of those cases someone else cause the accident, not the rider.
 
Amos said he and other top Marine officials will spend half the day Monday "focusing on nothing but motorcycle issues." The commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. James Conway, and other senior leadership will attend the meeting at the Quantico, Virginia, Marine base, he said.
Click to expand...
???

Ohhhhh, my. This is no good for young Marine sportbike riders.

Having spent a couple decades as a Naval Officer, I can tell you now that if a situation ties up senior brass at this level for an entire half-day, it's likely to result in directives that I am pretty sure will be extremely unpopular among young Leatherneck sportbike riders.... :disagree:
 
Couple things...

The rising number of deaths is not limited to the Marines and Navy, it's service wide... I didn't hear or read anything that wasn't true. The course that is being used (sport bike) course, was infact developed by the MSF and released to the military under that guise, the same course will be made available to the public under a different name.

Just because some "cager" pulls out blindly and causes an accident doesn't mean the accident was unavoidable. The majority of motorcycle collision accidents are avoidable if the rider is proficient with the techniques necessary to avoid them... Thats why they are called "accident avoidance skills". Swerving and stopping quickly are proven life savers... Ofcourse you gotta be paying attention to whats going on around you.

Also, the information about Navy motorcylce deaths being 100% sport bike is BS... I know of atleast 2 that were cruisers.
 
My issue with “piecesâ€￾ such as this is that they are universally devoid of tangible facts and data. They completely leave out anything that could be considered causative in these accidents. For instance how much of this is purely due to the fact that our boys in uniform (a heartfelt thanks to all of you BTW!!!) are logging exponentially more miles on two wheels these days because the cost of fuel is (or was) at an all time high and they like all Americans are trying to save money just to survive! Or how many were caused by cagers who really have no right to be behind the wheel in the first place due to medical conditions, advanced age, chemical impairment etc. Or what about road conditions, I can’t speak for everyone here but the crappy roads around where I live have caused me far more grief over the years than any riding miscalculations or unwanted incursions by the aforementioned cagers. :banghead:
 
bigoltool said:
My issue with “pieces” such as this is that they are universally devoid of tangible facts and data. They completely leave out anything that could be considered causative in these accidents. For instance how much of this is purely due to the fact that our boys in uniform (a heartfelt thanks to all of you BTW!!!) are logging exponentially more miles on two wheels these days because the cost of fuel is (or was) at an all time high and they like all Americans are trying to save money just to survive! Or how many were caused by cagers who really have no right to be behind the wheel in the first place due to medical conditions, advanced age, chemical impairment etc. Or what about road conditions, I can’t speak for everyone here but the crappy roads around where I live have caused me far more grief over the years than any riding miscalculations or unwanted incursions by the aforementioned cagers. :banghead:
Click to expand...


We can complain about the media all we want but you know as well as I do that you don't often see a cruiser doing a wheelie down the highway or going 100+. Every time that happens cagers form an opinion about us. It is probably not fair. Couple that with news reports like this and the public just doesn't care about that facts, all they see are sportbike riders as hooligans. All of us; even though nothing could be further from the truth.

So the cause doesn't matter because the people that make the rules don't care.

We as sportbike riders need to begin setting an example, saving the speed for the track, keeping the front wheel on the pavement and not being afraid to tell the kids out there to do the same.

I don't mean to be a party pooper but if the Marines set a precedence by banning or severely restricting sportbikes it will not be long before the civilian sector follows suit and we will only have ourselves to blame.
 
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Alsterbator said:
Couple things...

The rising number of deaths is not limited to the Marines and Navy, it's service wide... I didn't hear or read anything that wasn't true. The course that is being used (sport bike) course, was infact developed by the MSF and released to the military under that guise, the same course will be made available to the public under a different name.
Click to expand...

There are actually two different courses.

Here is my understanding of it. The Navy and Marines chose the one developed by MSF. The MSF had been developing an “advancedâ€￾ course to go beyond the experienced motorcycle course. While I have not seen the entire curriculum I think it falls a bit short of the objectives. The Air Force has developed one outside of the MSF. It started in one command and the developers of the course were active in road racing. What I’m getting from the ones that have seen both is the NSBC (MSF based) is not as advanced as the AFSBC. I’ve previously seen sneak previews of some of the MSF version so I’ll refrain from comments about the current one. One base program is planning on requiring the basic, experienced, NSBC and the AFSBC.

I guarantee you the AFSBC is pretty danged good. If anyone gets the option to attend, jump on it. It is well worth the time. I was certified as an instructor in it this year. I can tell you the instructor certification was very difficult. They are teaching some great skills.

Regardless, skills by themselves are not the problem. First hand I have seen the bases and commanders not supporting the program. Delays of several months to get the training. You think they are going to buy a bike and let it set in the garage for 3 months before attending a class. Supervisors refusing to let the guys take the next level class, because they already met the “minimalâ€￾ requirements.

Still skills alone are not going to prevent some of the tragic accidents. You are dealing with young members of the armed forced that think they are bullet proof and indestructible. Poor decisions are sometimes made and they end up suffering the consequences. The fear of punishment is not much of a deterrent.
 
sjcurrence said:
We can complain about the media all we want but you know as well as I do that you don't often see a cruiser doing a wheelie down the highway or going 100+. Every time that happens cagers form an opinion about us. It is probably not fair. Couple that with news reports like this and the public just doesn't care about that facts, all they see are sportbike riders as hooligans. All of us; even though nothing could be further from the truth.

So the cause doesn't matter because the people that make the rules don't care.

We as sportbike riders need to begin setting an example, saving the speed for the track, keeping the front wheel on the pavement and not being afraid to tell the kids out there to do the same.

I don't mean to be a party pooper but if the Marines set a precedence by banning or severely restricting sportbikes it will not be long before the civilian sector follows suit and we will only have ourselves to blame.
Click to expand...

:agree: Ain't it the truth...:beerchug:
 
Professor hit it right on the head in his last paragraph. I am active duty Marine Corps and also an MSF instructor. Many of the reports we see via the Safety chain about motorcycle crashes are speed related / loss of control in a turn. Part of the Marine Corps' problem is that we Marines are for the most part, adrenaline junkies. That added to returning from deployment, young and invisible, etc. is our main problem. I can tell you that my Commandant is very engaged and we are training our Marines the best we can to "save it for the track". Command sponsored track days have already come up during our monthly motorcycle meetings. Logistically, it is a nightmare because of the location of my base. But we are looking at it.
 
Warchild said:
???

Ohhhhh, my. This is no good for young Marine sportbike riders.

Having spent a couple decades as a Naval Officer, I can tell you now that if a situation ties up senior brass at this level for an entire half-day, it's likely to result in directives that I am pretty sure will be extremely unpopular among young Leatherneck sportbike riders.... :disagree:
Click to expand...

yep thats bad news for sure :nervous:
 
My comments on accident avoidance skills are more so directed at those who are looking to place blame or point fingers when the fact is that all riders exercising good judgment in most case would be capable of avoiding those accidents...

As far as the speed related and loss of control in turns... Speed related deaths are an example of a rider exercising bad judgment, and loss of control in a turn is again lack of cornering skills. The only thing you cant teach some one is good judgment, however as MSF RC's you should always try to inform riders of the dangers of riding above your skill level, most new riders that go down in a curve is due to entering the curve too fast (Improper entry speed) and panicking, they overbrake, straighten, fixate, or lowside...

The MSBC is actually a combination of a few different curriculums that the MSF was working of, they took different exercises from those and creadted the MSBC. Which will be released to the public by MSF as the ERC 2 I believe.
 
The Corps is at least concerned about Marine's safety. I remember when you could get office hours for getting sunburned. Banning Marines from owning sportbikes is a little extreme though. Liberty is liberty.
 
I live near Augusta GA and Fort Gordon Army base. There are a lot of soldiers who ride sport and cruiser bikes. I have seen many military fatalities on motorcycles and they all have one thing in common. These guys were between the ages of 18-25. I see a lot of young guys who want to stunt ride in traffic or hual tail in the city. We had one soldier recently run into a power company truck. He was 22 years old and on a busy public road in rush hour traffic speeding. I know it happens to the older guys every once in a while, but for the most part the younger guys are dying in my area. Another guy killed himself a month ago on a new Busa. Only had the bike for a month and trying to ride like a pro. I try to tell the young riders when I see them to get to know their bikes very well before you start testing it. I think it is up to us older riders to at least talk to the younger ones. I am not saying that they are the problem. I know that where I live, the motorcycle fatalities are 9 times out of 10 young guys between 18-25.:poke:
 
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