ya cant go wrong wit an AR variant in 223 just keep a clip loaded with the federal 40 grain blitz round for home defence.
Hey bullet and the rest of ya weapons geeks...
- Thread starter Revlis
- Start date
Rev - One word of caution...
Once you get an M1 Garand you'll never be the same.
Besides, I gotta Hear that *TING* for myself...
We should get together at somepoint... I keep planning a trip down the coast and it would give me a destination. I wanna head down to N. california at some point too, hit Yosemite and see some big trees.
AR-15. You said you have plenty of firepower for serious situations, so I would pick something that wouldn't beat my shoulder like a .308 for "plinking." Plus there is the price difference in ammo. As far as price, you can spend $2K on a fancy 1911.
When it comes to "stopping" power. Give me a choice between being shot with a .223 and a .308, and I'll go with the .223 every damn time. In the hunting world, a .223 is considered a varmint cartridge (yeah I know there are differences between the military variant and the civilian cartridge), where a .308 is considered good for any size animal on this continent.
When it comes to "stopping" power. Give me a choice between being shot with a .223 and a .308, and I'll go with the .223 every damn time. In the hunting world, a .223 is considered a varmint cartridge (yeah I know there are differences between the military variant and the civilian cartridge), where a .308 is considered good for any size animal on this continent.
here's my final "words of wisdom" on this issue:
"Plinking" is a word that many folks mis-use as a facade to hide their true feelings behind...i mean he11...lets face it...if it were "plinking" we were truely after?...that can be achieved in both safer and far less costly ways with a .22 cal. rifle (such as a ruger 10/22) and still have a blast all the way out too 100yds or so...for a fraction of the cost of the type of rifles being discussed here...and while rare few may proclaim such as "plinking" gear and truely mean so?..the majority of AR, AK, M1, HK98/91 Mini-14 crowd (which btw i'm part of) ain't fooling me or anyone else...just themselves...as subconsciouse a thought as it may be?...the facts are..we live in and are fast approching volatile times...and we all know that.
That said?...after decades of always trying to keep and maintain "the perfect battle/defense arm" thoughout the course of my adult life as an avid hunter from youth...Former U.S. Marine (ranked "Rifle Expert" and high shooter of my platoon in boot)...2nd in the State NFAA/IBO Archery Champ...part time gunsmith...machinist..IPSC/USPSA/IDPA Competitor?...I've been through a plethora of small arms in my life...in my early years I fancied myself a sniper type sporting .300Win./7mmMag Bolt guns w/ Big Glass.....asnd was reeeeal good....best shot ever?....a hole through a quarter at 300yrds....one shot....witnessed...(and yes that was factoring in a good amount of luck) even on that perfectly still day on the outskirts of the mojav'e desert...but somewhere's in my early 30's?..just after having out first child?..I realized that "Sniping" is not a defensive but an OFFENSIVE act...and that any position I might ever be forced to assume would be a defensive one...for the survival and protection of both myself and my family....and that changed my thoughts and patterns...in a big way...as offense and defense are two very different worlds as it relates to small arms...and that's when I went with "Tactical"..based on "Strategic Thinking"...with that stategic thinking being focused on "defensive protection & survival".
I decided the first thing I should become proficient in (since I already had "long range" work down pat) should be the extreme opposite...close shid...real close shid...so I spent several years mastering (and a lot of reloading and practicing and listening and learning) "Tactical Pistol"...which extended into participation in "3-Gun Tactical Matches"...where I built a "Race Shotgun" from a Rem. 11-87 with a 9 shot extended tube and speedloaders and then went through a plethora of Tactical Rifles....and one of the best (for a race rifle) was one of the 1st I put together...which was an M1 Carbine...in .30cal Carbine...set up in a choate tactical pistolgrip stock and a special mount i machined up to accept a compact/tactical 2.5X Leupold fixed power scope...and thanks to the .30carbines puny fast handling size and ultra-low recoil? (albiet too low powered for seriouse tac work?) it made one he11ified fast race rifle to compete with...to the point that other competitors biotched abouut me having an unfair advantage...even though some of them shot even punier AR's chambered for 9mm..but alas I couldn't bare the chastizing i took (along with me endless trophies) and graduated to an AK...actually?...a polytech MAK-90....7.62X39..and unhappy with it's lackluster accuracy?..went to a Mini-14...which also suxed...figured I got a bad one...so sold and bought another...same deal..suxed..then I went to a MAK-91 (longer barreled AK) figuring that "that" might help the accuracy issue..no dice...then finally got it right with a Colt National Match H-Bar....and a match or two later?..I was cleaning some seriouse house...triple taps in a quarter at 50yds....impressive....had it all...high cap..low recoil..and ergonomic perfection.
After getting a firm grip on tactical everything?...my long range roots cried out to me once again as I tried my "Snipetac" project rifle which in my opinion failed miserably by way of doing neither one well....then went with an Bushy Patrolman M4gery CAR....all the same greatness of my old H-Bar but in a smaller and lighter and faster handling package...just a couple pounds more than an appropriate sidearm yet ready to rain death out to 300yrds at the drop of a dime...and silly accurate.
The Long Game" is fun to play..but there's always someone out there with a bigger gun, a far more stable bullet and way better glass than you...and?..it's an offensive act...as if there's boogermen more tha 200yds from me and my family?..we're headed the other way...a it would be defensively irresponsible to give away the position of me and mine..who may look to merely survive..and it's then...when you and tyours are "on-the move" that you are at the greatest risk...as you may run into sumpt'in you didn't wanna run into...and nothing atticipated...and that's when you'll need speed, capacity and accuracy...and in that order.
"Surveilance" is a huge part of taking a defensive stance..and having a great set of binocs never hurts...that with a solid high cap tac rifle and sidearm...and to learn, know and have the capacity to establish a proper perimeter...complete with alarms and booby-traps....ala swiss family robinson.
And the indians had one thing right..only evil spirits fight at night...so when the sun goes down and the sun comes up?...so should you..as only the boys with infra-red/thermal and mylar suits should play at night.
Don't get me wrong...it's nice to have a long gun around but...anymore?...long guns in what we may see in our lifetimes would be like trying to race a Harley at Daytona...and we all know how that works out. LOL!
As always...My best thoughts and experience..and......L8R, Bill.
<!--EDIT|JINKSTER
Reason for Edit: None given...|1151861522 -->
"Plinking" is a word that many folks mis-use as a facade to hide their true feelings behind...i mean he11...lets face it...if it were "plinking" we were truely after?...that can be achieved in both safer and far less costly ways with a .22 cal. rifle (such as a ruger 10/22) and still have a blast all the way out too 100yds or so...for a fraction of the cost of the type of rifles being discussed here...and while rare few may proclaim such as "plinking" gear and truely mean so?..the majority of AR, AK, M1, HK98/91 Mini-14 crowd (which btw i'm part of) ain't fooling me or anyone else...just themselves...as subconsciouse a thought as it may be?...the facts are..we live in and are fast approching volatile times...and we all know that.
That said?...after decades of always trying to keep and maintain "the perfect battle/defense arm" thoughout the course of my adult life as an avid hunter from youth...Former U.S. Marine (ranked "Rifle Expert" and high shooter of my platoon in boot)...2nd in the State NFAA/IBO Archery Champ...part time gunsmith...machinist..IPSC/USPSA/IDPA Competitor?...I've been through a plethora of small arms in my life...in my early years I fancied myself a sniper type sporting .300Win./7mmMag Bolt guns w/ Big Glass.....asnd was reeeeal good....best shot ever?....a hole through a quarter at 300yrds....one shot....witnessed...(and yes that was factoring in a good amount of luck) even on that perfectly still day on the outskirts of the mojav'e desert...but somewhere's in my early 30's?..just after having out first child?..I realized that "Sniping" is not a defensive but an OFFENSIVE act...and that any position I might ever be forced to assume would be a defensive one...for the survival and protection of both myself and my family....and that changed my thoughts and patterns...in a big way...as offense and defense are two very different worlds as it relates to small arms...and that's when I went with "Tactical"..based on "Strategic Thinking"...with that stategic thinking being focused on "defensive protection & survival".
I decided the first thing I should become proficient in (since I already had "long range" work down pat) should be the extreme opposite...close shid...real close shid...so I spent several years mastering (and a lot of reloading and practicing and listening and learning) "Tactical Pistol"...which extended into participation in "3-Gun Tactical Matches"...where I built a "Race Shotgun" from a Rem. 11-87 with a 9 shot extended tube and speedloaders and then went through a plethora of Tactical Rifles....and one of the best (for a race rifle) was one of the 1st I put together...which was an M1 Carbine...in .30cal Carbine...set up in a choate tactical pistolgrip stock and a special mount i machined up to accept a compact/tactical 2.5X Leupold fixed power scope...and thanks to the .30carbines puny fast handling size and ultra-low recoil? (albiet too low powered for seriouse tac work?) it made one he11ified fast race rifle to compete with...to the point that other competitors biotched abouut me having an unfair advantage...even though some of them shot even punier AR's chambered for 9mm..but alas I couldn't bare the chastizing i took (along with me endless trophies) and graduated to an AK...actually?...a polytech MAK-90....7.62X39..and unhappy with it's lackluster accuracy?..went to a Mini-14...which also suxed...figured I got a bad one...so sold and bought another...same deal..suxed..then I went to a MAK-91 (longer barreled AK) figuring that "that" might help the accuracy issue..no dice...then finally got it right with a Colt National Match H-Bar....and a match or two later?..I was cleaning some seriouse house...triple taps in a quarter at 50yds....impressive....had it all...high cap..low recoil..and ergonomic perfection.
After getting a firm grip on tactical everything?...my long range roots cried out to me once again as I tried my "Snipetac" project rifle which in my opinion failed miserably by way of doing neither one well....then went with an Bushy Patrolman M4gery CAR....all the same greatness of my old H-Bar but in a smaller and lighter and faster handling package...just a couple pounds more than an appropriate sidearm yet ready to rain death out to 300yrds at the drop of a dime...and silly accurate.
The Long Game" is fun to play..but there's always someone out there with a bigger gun, a far more stable bullet and way better glass than you...and?..it's an offensive act...as if there's boogermen more tha 200yds from me and my family?..we're headed the other way...a it would be defensively irresponsible to give away the position of me and mine..who may look to merely survive..and it's then...when you and tyours are "on-the move" that you are at the greatest risk...as you may run into sumpt'in you didn't wanna run into...and nothing atticipated...and that's when you'll need speed, capacity and accuracy...and in that order.
"Surveilance" is a huge part of taking a defensive stance..and having a great set of binocs never hurts...that with a solid high cap tac rifle and sidearm...and to learn, know and have the capacity to establish a proper perimeter...complete with alarms and booby-traps....ala swiss family robinson.
And the indians had one thing right..only evil spirits fight at night...so when the sun goes down and the sun comes up?...so should you..as only the boys with infra-red/thermal and mylar suits should play at night.
Don't get me wrong...it's nice to have a long gun around but...anymore?...long guns in what we may see in our lifetimes would be like trying to race a Harley at Daytona...and we all know how that works out. LOL!
As always...My best thoughts and experience..and......L8R, Bill.
<!--EDIT|JINKSTER
Reason for Edit: None given...|1151861522 -->
Funny story... A co-worker of mine works with a multi-jurisdictional Interstate Crime Unit (Highway dope boys) and one of the jurisdictions he works has a military base. He was sitting on the Interstate one day when he noticed a military attack helo of some kind fly over. He decided to paint it with the traffic laser unit to see how fast it was going. He said as soon as he hit the trigger on the laser the chopper immediately conducted an evasive maneuver and headed back toward him. He said they flew right to him and hovered not far from the front of his car looking at him. He said he was so scared that he couldn't look up to make eye contact with them. He said he pretended to be reading something until they left!
If I could own ANYTHING I wanted, it would be an Apache with an unlimited arsenal supply and a "test field" with mock targets to fug up at will. That would have to be the coolest toy ever!
Jink, I appreciate your input, seriously. And I undertand your comment regarding "WHY" someone would buy a Black rifle for plinking. Gotta tell ya, your assumption is off just a bit. At least in my case.
Yeah an AR15 for pumpkin/orange/apple duty is a bit of over kill, but I want one because it's fun to own and shoot and it's a platform I have some bit of experiance with so I wont be TOO lost. The Mini-14/30's are ok, but they just aren't "COOL" ya know? They don't have the pedigree or cool factor.
I don't need an AR or other long gun for defense, no one in the country really does I don't think. I can come up with other weapons that could be more practical, and defensible in court if it did come down to killing someone. All the Planning and training for home defense is kind of silly In my opinion. I read A LOT of this kind of thing in Guns & Ammo and such and it allways bothers me, it's the kind of mindset you find at GunShows where reality and these folks diverged LONG ago. Planning for societies break down is kind of paranoid in an exciting new way. Having a home defense plan is a good idea, understanding your field of fire and your backstop is critical for a homeowner. Taking responsibility for the protection of your family, your property, and yourself is something that we all must do certainly. But primarily for the civilian, "black gun" ownership is largely entertainment based not survival based. Be proficient with your weapons, have them near at hand, and be mentally prepared to use them. But preparing for the breakdown of society on a large scale is kinda silly, and leads to living in the woods without electricity.
Simply put I want an AR15 or similar rifle cause they are fun to shoot, accurate, tough, and reliable. Would it be handy if I have to fight off hoards of Zombie Crack Heads? Hell Yeah! But that is not a real consideration, and for home defense/close range stuff I don't think ANYTHING is as effective or as intimidating as a 12 gauge.
Anyway, I am not saying right or wrong and I gotta run, (Have to go look at Furniture)
I am enjoying the discussion because I am learning, and thinking about rifles... Good stuff.
<!--EDIT|Revlis
Reason for Edit: None given...|1151896534 -->
Yeah an AR15 for pumpkin/orange/apple duty is a bit of over kill, but I want one because it's fun to own and shoot and it's a platform I have some bit of experiance with so I wont be TOO lost. The Mini-14/30's are ok, but they just aren't "COOL" ya know? They don't have the pedigree or cool factor.
I don't need an AR or other long gun for defense, no one in the country really does I don't think. I can come up with other weapons that could be more practical, and defensible in court if it did come down to killing someone. All the Planning and training for home defense is kind of silly In my opinion. I read A LOT of this kind of thing in Guns & Ammo and such and it allways bothers me, it's the kind of mindset you find at GunShows where reality and these folks diverged LONG ago. Planning for societies break down is kind of paranoid in an exciting new way. Having a home defense plan is a good idea, understanding your field of fire and your backstop is critical for a homeowner. Taking responsibility for the protection of your family, your property, and yourself is something that we all must do certainly. But primarily for the civilian, "black gun" ownership is largely entertainment based not survival based. Be proficient with your weapons, have them near at hand, and be mentally prepared to use them. But preparing for the breakdown of society on a large scale is kinda silly, and leads to living in the woods without electricity.
Simply put I want an AR15 or similar rifle cause they are fun to shoot, accurate, tough, and reliable. Would it be handy if I have to fight off hoards of Zombie Crack Heads? Hell Yeah! But that is not a real consideration, and for home defense/close range stuff I don't think ANYTHING is as effective or as intimidating as a 12 gauge.
Anyway, I am not saying right or wrong and I gotta run, (Have to go look at Furniture)
<!--EDIT|Revlis
Reason for Edit: None given...|1151896534 -->
Well Yeah I mean .22LR puts holes in pumpkins, 5.56/.223 blows them right the hell up.
Having said that though, I've owned a couple of different .22 target pistols and my very first rifle was a Ruger 10/22. Part of what I was thinking about doing was building my old 10/22 while I am at it here.
New stock, new barrel and trigger group and I have a great plinker there as well. I love .22 cal shooting, it's inexpensive and simply fun to shoot. It doesn't wear you out you know. I used to take a .22 target pistol and the 10/22 up in to the woods and burn through 1000-2000 rounds in a day. Just shooting apples, pine cones, etc. I used to set up lots of empty shot-gun rounds all over the hillside like advancing infantry and pick them off.
OH AND I am going to be buying the wife a Walther P22 when I pick up my rifle. It fits her hand just about perfect and she got a real kick out of that. She has real small hands so all the other handguns just don't really feel all that good. So I fugure heck if I am getting a new toy she should as well.
<!--EDIT|Revlis
Reason for Edit: None given...|1151896788 -->
Hey Rev....I don't worry too much about social breakdown in the conventional stereotypical gun-nut sense...but I have seen people turn into compassionless animals in the aftermath of hurricanes..namely hurricane andrew..and we saw simular after-affects recently with hurricane katrina...I also take pause when our own leadership suggests things like ground assaulting north korea because they fear we couldn't defend ourselves against ICBM nuclear attack...and at times I even wonder how china may respond to not getting paid back the trillions they loaned us to conduct the iraqi war in a timely fashion...but what I have been taught is a motto that echo'ed it's way from cub scout too boy scout too U.S. Marine..that motto being...Jink, I appreciate your input, seriously. And I undertand your comment regarding "WHY" someone would buy a Black rifle for plinking. Gotta tell ya, your assumption is off just a bit. At least in my case.
Yeah an AR15 for pumpkin/orange/apple duty is a bit of over kill, but I want one because it's fun to own and shoot and it's a platform I have some bit of experiance with so I wont be TOO lost. The Mini-14/30's are ok, but they just aren't "COOL" ya know? They don't have the pedigree or cool factor.
I don't need an AR or other long gun for defense, no one in the country really does. All the Planning and training for home defense is kind of silly, planning for societies break down is kind of paranoid in an exciting new way. But really, having a home defense plan is a good idea, understanding your field of fire and your backstop is critical for a homeowner. But primarily for the civilian, "black gun" ownership is largely entertainment based not survival based. Be proficient with your weapons, have them near at hand, and be mentally prepared to use them. But preparing for the breakdown of society on a large scale is kinda silly, and leads to living in the woods without electricity.
Simply put I want an AR15 or similar rifle cause they are fun to shoot, accurate, tough, and reliable. Would it be handy if I have to fight off hoards of Zombie Crack Heads? Hell Yeah! But that is not a real consideration, and for home defense/close range stuff I don't think ANYTHING is as effective or as intimidating as a 12 gauge.
Anyway, I am not saying right or wrong and I gotta run, (Have to go look at Furniture)I am enjoying the discussion because I am learning, and thinking about rifles... Good stuff.
"BE PREPARED"
and i live by that creedo...as waiting until you need a defensive arm is not the time to start shopping for one.
and trust me...i'm far, far from.."paranoid".
L8R, Bill.
I edited some of what I said Earlier jink, I was sounding a bit more like a dickweed than normal. Basically I understand what you are saying ESPECIALLY when it comes to Hurricanes and other sources of unrest. Certainly an accurate long gun is a useful tool in these circumstances and I sorta missed that.
"Be Prepared" Damn good advice, and I cannot argue with it one bit.
Mostly for me though I think it really is about rounding out the collection. I just don't have a decent rifle... Dunno why, just haven't gotten around to it.
I keep re-reading what I've been writing and I sound kinda like a #### and that's not intentional, just sort of a natural ability...
Have a good one man...
"Be Prepared" Damn good advice, and I cannot argue with it one bit.
Mostly for me though I think it really is about rounding out the collection. I just don't have a decent rifle... Dunno why, just haven't gotten around to it.
I keep re-reading what I've been writing and I sound kinda like a #### and that's not intentional, just sort of a natural ability...
Have a good one man...
np...cool...i can accidently come off sounding like a pr1ck as well at times...unintentionally..so i guess i'm a natural as well. LOL!I edited some of what I said Earlier jink, I was sounding a bit more like a dickweed than normal. Basically I understand what you are saying ESPECIALLY when it comes to Hurricanes and other sources of unrest. Certainly an accurate long gun is a useful tool in these circumstances and I sorta missed that.
"Be Prepared" Damn good advice, and I cannot argue with it one bit.
Mostly for me though I think it really is about rounding out the collection. I just don't have a decent rifle... Dunno why, just haven't gotten around to it.
I keep re-reading what I've been writing and I sound kinda like a #### and that's not intentional, just sort of a natural ability...
Have a good one man...
Happy gun shopping and..
L8R, Bill.
not real big into the whole rifle thing (read as: I don't have enough $$$ to get into it), but from the sounds of what yer sayin, I'd say go with the FN.
Not only does it feel good to you, but it also has that unique aura about it.
Not to mention that you can prolyl unload a whole crapload of stuff in a short amount of time.
Not only does it feel good to you, but it also has that unique aura about it.
Not to mention that you can prolyl unload a whole crapload of stuff in a short amount of time.
But, if the RX8 thread was any indicator of your decision-making patterns, I'd be willing to bet dinner at Todai's that you're gonna go with the AR15.
Or Sushi-Zen, if you prefer. No rock paper scissors this time, though.
Or Sushi-Zen, if you prefer. No rock paper scissors this time, though.
Jinks, your a smart guy and I love to read your work.
But.... Always one of those eh?
Anything a .223 will do a .308 WILL do better!
Just like anything a .308 will do a .50 will do better.
Anything a 600 will do a 1300 will do better (ok, that was off topic).
Anything a .41 mag will do a .44 will do better.
Shotguns, same thing, anything a 20 ga. will do a 12 will do better - following me here?
I am not comparing the weapon platforms, the short barelled M1As are a little tough to group with, but cartridge for cartridge the .223 and the .308 are not even on the same planet.
Ask any police sniper. I'lll digress....
Ever deer hunted with a 5.56mm ball cartridge?
Neither has anyone else who ate deer that night! They run around with a ice pick sized hole in them and die from infection!!!
I like the black rifle (and the dinky little .223 it spits out the business end too) and I think everyone should own one (heck my wife keeps one behind her floor mirror), but for shootin pumpkins, I'd tell Rev to go big!
YH2K...I'm ROTF here...as every single "do better" example you just cited couldn't be more wrong...awesome! LOL!...and here's the one that really got me!
"Ask any police sniper. I'lll digress...."
as with the "Police Sniper" cal. preference thing?...the vast majority of PD's and their respective "Snipers" far and away prefer the tighter grouping .223 OVER the .308...true story...as most hostage recue ops require the ultimate in precision...and at the distances PD snipers work at?...(typically 50-200yds w/ 300 being a long shot)...the precision .223 prints group sizes 1/2 that of the .308...for those moments when only a small piece of the perps heads pokes out from behind the hostage...oh the .308 will hollow out quaters at 100yds buuuut...the .223?...will hollow out dimes! LOL! also...the smaller frontal area and far higher velocity of the .223 yeild less deflection when shooting through glass...but don't take my word for it...check around...oh you might find some swat units out in the boondocks deploying .308's but not Police Snipers...as te liability of the larger grouping .308 isn't a welcome virtue.
I got riding buds in south dakota that have invited me and my father up to do some prairie dawg'in...they run 500 to 1,000rds on a good size dogtown..all .223..and most shots nailing dogs at 500+ yards...he11...some of'em are shooting water jacketed barrels...on AR's!!!
Also..I hunt white-tail annually in eufala, alabama...with a police sargents son...his daddy loves his .41 over a .44 annnnd...believe it or not?..I ate white-tail taken with a .223 mini-14 just last season..a 6 pointer taken by his son! LOL!
trust me..."bigger"...isn't always...."better"
L8R, Bill.
TruWrecks
Banned
Unless you talking about HP/torque.trust me..."bigger"...isn't always...."better"
I've fired the AR-15 M1, and M2 (5.56/.223) as a service weapon. I've also fired the M60 (7.62/.308). Both are great rounds, when you use them for the right purpose.
The .223 is a great round from 100 to 600M. The .308 is a great round from 400 to 1200M (with a stable platform). They duty range for these two rounds has an overlap, but they don't perform the same in that overlap area. The .223 starts loosing it's accuracy just over 400M. The .308 is the most stable around the 600M distance. The .223 is desinged for close to medium range combat, and the .308 is designed for medium to long range. They are not apples to apples, so please don't compare them that way.
Rev...If you want a fun plinking gun, with more range than you probably will ever use, go with the .223. It will do everything you'll be able to get away with in the Puget Sound area. I have yet to find a range west of the Cascades that will test the limit of the .300 Win Mag.
If you have the urge to shoot longer range, contact me and I'll let you borrow my FP10T .300 Win Mag. It's slow, heavy, and dead accurate for many meters. I used it at a 1000M range last summer. It was nice, just not as nice as an M1 Grande that I tried while there.
Myself, I'm partial to the FN. It just looks down right sweet! The AR will be easier to get parts for, but the FN may be more enjoyable to fire (shooter's preferrence).
Anywho. Go find a place that you can shoot both, and let your body tell you the best match. You can't go wrong with that.
Doug
Aight Jinks you win, but at least I made you laugh eh?
BTW, none of the sniper classes in SW Bama or Southern MS train with the .223. Something about deviations from point of aim when target is behind plate glass - store / house windows, auto glass, that sort of thing. But if a prarie dog takes down the First National Bank I'll let em know what ya said
Had a gun on my hip for 14 years now and thought I'd insinuate myself on this one, mostly I am here to learn!
Fun thread to read but I thought we were talking about a good rifle to splatter punkins!
I'll hush now!
BTW, none of the sniper classes in SW Bama or Southern MS train with the .223. Something about deviations from point of aim when target is behind plate glass - store / house windows, auto glass, that sort of thing. But if a prarie dog takes down the First National Bank I'll let em know what ya said
Had a gun on my hip for 14 years now and thought I'd insinuate myself on this one, mostly I am here to learn!
Fun thread to read but I thought we were talking about a good rifle to splatter punkins!
I'll hush now!
good post!...refreshing.Unless you talking about HP/torque.trust me..."bigger"...isn't always...."better"
I've fired the AR-15 M1, and M2 (5.56/.223) as a service weapon. I've also fired the M60 (7.62/.308). Both are great rounds, when you use them for the right purpose.
The .223 is a great round from 100 to 600M. The .308 is a great round from 400 to 1200M (with a stable platform). They duty range for these two rounds has an overlap, but they don't perform the same in that overlap area. The .223 starts loosing it's accuracy just over 400M. The .308 is the most stable around the 600M distance. The .223 is desinged for close to medium range combat, and the .308 is designed for medium to long range. They are not apples to apples, so please don't compare them that way.
Rev...If you want a fun plinking gun, with more range than you probably will ever use, go with the .223. It will do everything you'll be able to get away with in the Puget Sound area. I have yet to find a range west of the Cascades that will test the limit of the .300 Win Mag.
If you have the urge to shoot longer range, contact me and I'll let you borrow my FP10T .300 Win Mag. It's slow, heavy, and dead accurate for many meters. I used it at a 1000M range last summer. It was nice, just not as nice as an M1 Grande that I tried while there.
Myself, I'm partial to the FN. It just looks down right sweet! The AR will be easier to get parts for, but the FN may be more enjoyable to fire (shooter's preferrence).
Anywho. Go find a place that you can shoot both, and let your body tell you the best match. You can't go wrong with that.
Doug
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