Help with suspension

[Dopey]

Ok so I've read and done the best i can off of jinksters awesome suspension thread. Now knowing I'm too heavy for the stock setup here's the main issue I'm trying to address. On the rare occasion i can get the wife on the back of the bike on these wonderful roads we have here in Michigan every time i hit a bump the rear wants to spring her up in the air. This had been a real issue a few times as i was mid corner and made her feel as if she was gonna come off the bike. What exactly should i adjust to correct this some? I have read almost all the threads on suspension until my head hurts and I'm more confused then when i started so any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bigoltool]

It sounds like rebound damping or lack thereof if it's kicking back off the bumps. Not knowing any of your specifics it's hard to say much. If you ride two up often, a custom valved/sprung shock is likely what's needed.

 

[kml]

Are all the components stock and are the rebound and compression settings set to stock?

 

[Dopey]

All components are stock as is the entire bike aside from slip ons. I have tried setting the sag per @JINKSTER write up as best i could but rough to do with just the wife. I'm thinking i either have to much pre load on the rear spring or rebound setting way out of wack. I'm just not real familiar with suspension and not sure which does what.

 

[Johnnie Phatt]

When you hit a bump the spring compresses. Once past the bump the spring expands back to it original length and/or a bit more. This is the rebound. So you need more rebound DAMPING to slow down the spring as it expands. Now then, because you have too week a spring for riding two up it will compress very easily. So you do not want to go overboard on the adjustments. I would suggest finding a bump that produces the very thing you are trying to avoid. Then dial in more rebound damping one or maybe two clicks at a time when the condition starts to improve add maybe one or two clicks more then stop. Now what you need is balance. So it is time to add in some compression damping to try to slow down the spring compression. Not too much or it will ride like a hard tail chopper. The same with to much rebound damping If it slows the spring expansion to the point of it not expanding it will hop as it rolls over the rock or what ever it is. Try to find a balance between letting the spring compression to quickly and expand to quickly. To much of one or the other is not good. You want the spring to smoothly absorb the shock and then smoothly release the pent up energy in the spring

 

[JINKSTER]

First you're going to want to pretty much max out your rear shocks spring preload...(by doing this you will reduce the amount of compression travel and subsequent inertia of your riders bodyweight rebounding)

Secondly and in accordance with the above?...you're going to want to pretty much max out your rear shocks compression and rebound damping...increased compression damping will serve to aid the spring preload and of course the increased rebound damping will take some of the sting out of the spankings delivered by post compression recovery.

The downside of such settings is when riding one up?...your sport-bike will ride like a hard-tail chopper! LOL!

Best deal?...my wife won't ride with me but even if she would?...I wouldn't want her to and would much prefer she mount a bike of her own and then I'd love to ride together with her.

 

[Dopey]

When you hit a bump the spring compresses. Once past the bump the spring expands back to it original length and/or a bit more. This is the rebound. So you need more rebound DAMPING to slow down the spring as it expands. Now then, because you have too week a spring for riding two up it will compress very easily. So you do not want to go overboard on the adjustments. I would suggest finding a bump that produces the very thing you are trying to avoid. Then dial in more rebound damping one or maybe two clicks at a time when the condition starts to improve add maybe one or two clicks more then stop. Now what you need is balance. So it is time to add in some compression damping to try to slow down the spring compression. Not too much or it will ride like a hard tail chopper. The same with to much rebound damping If it slows the spring expansion to the point of it not expanding it will hop as it rolls over the rock or what ever it is. Try to find a balance between letting the spring compression to quickly and expand to quickly. To much of one or the other is not good. You want the spring to smoothly absorb the shock and then smoothly release the pent up energy in the spring

Thank you sir as that's what i was needing was kind of an explanation as to whatv and why to adjust.

 

[Dopey]

First you're going to want to pretty much max out your rear shocks spring preload...(by doing this you will reduce the amount of compression travel and subsequent inertia of your riders bodyweight rebounding)

Secondly and in accordance with the above?...you're going to want to pretty much max out your rear shocks compression and rebound damping...increased compression damping will serve to aid the spring preload and of course the increased rebound damping will take some of the sting out of the spankings delivered by post compression recovery.

The downside of such settings is when riding one up?...your sport-bike will ride like a hard-tail chopper! LOL!

Best deal?...my wife won't ride with me but even if she would?...I wouldn't want her to and would much prefer she mount a bike of her own and then I'd love to ride together with her.

I've read quite a bit from you in the past few years @JINKSTER and i appreciate your wisdom. I had actually bought my wife a small bike as a bday gift and honestly got so nervous about the way all the idiots drive around me that i just couldn't bring myself to start teaching her to ride. So I'll just make a few adjustments when i can get her on the bike and enjoy a few miles with her that way.

 

[Mr Brown]

I've read quite a bit from you in the past few years @JINKSTER and i appreciate your wisdom. I had actually bought my wife a small bike as a bday gift and honestly got so nervous about the way all the idiots drive around me that i just couldn't bring myself to start teaching her to ride. So I'll just make a few adjustments when i can get her on the bike and enjoy a few miles with her that way.

Teach her how. You'll both be glad you did. There's always a risk associated with this thing we love, but that's part of what makes it so special. Something great about sharing what you love with who you love.

 

[Dopey]

Teach her how. You'll both be glad you did. There's always a risk associated with this thing we love, but that's part of what makes it so special. Something great about sharing what you love with who you love.

I've actually been able to take her out and ride our quads together and she says she's good with that. We had a close call a couple years ago after i sold "her" bike with a lady pulling out in front of us and i had to get stopped real quick and she decided she didn't care to deal with the idiots around us that don't know what LOOK TWICE SAVE A LIFE is all about. And she's pretty good on the quad,likes playing in the mud with it and it makes me a little more at ease not being on the road and when we do get to go it's great fun to share.

 

[Mr Brown]

I've actually been able to take her out and ride our quads together and she says she's good with that. We had a close call a couple years ago after i sold "her" bike with a lady pulling out in front of us and i had to get stopped real quick and she decided she didn't care to deal with the idiots around us that don't know what LOOK TWICE SAVE A LIFE is all about. And she's pretty good on the quad,likes playing in the mud with it and it makes me a little more at ease not being on the road and when we do get to go it's great fun to share.

Gotcha, and I understand your concern. It makes sense.

 

[Johnnie Phatt]

There is a reason the town of Brampton up here pays the highest insurance rate in the country. It's the same reason I do not ride there.

 

[Johnnie Phatt]

honestly got so nervous about the way all the idiots drive around me that i just couldn't bring myself to start teaching her to ride. So I'll just make a few adjustments when i can get her on the bike and enjoy a few miles with her that way.

absolutely positively ask your Wife to take an MMIC or US equivalent riding course. DO NOT teach her yourself You have forgotten how much you know. You know a thousand little things you do not even think about any more You will not understand why she does not get what you are saying. Trust me on this. The courses are designed for rider with absolutely no experience. and build up slowly. Plus you can cash on their bike not yours

 

[sixpack577]

Also, not mentioned anywhere above, chain slack.
Is your chain slack correct with you on it?
Yes? Great...but as soon as a passenger gets on the chain is instantly too tight.
If the chain is too tight, the shock Cannot travel it's entire range of motion properly, and the suspension will never function correctly.
And, if the rear settings are off, but the front is good, or vice versa, the whole ride suffers.
You will need to adjust the sag, chain, and tire pressure Every time you have a passenger if you want it to ride properly.
Add 1 psi to the rear for a passenger.
Braking is also not at it's best when suspension is incorrect.
Alot of variables to play with.
Adding some preload to the rear for a passenger can also help(use a spanner wrench, not a punch).
And, who is close to @Dopey that can help him sort this in person.
I think if someone walked you through it you would find it much easier to understand and adjust.

 

[fallenarch]

Got to a service person who knows how to set the suspension up. It is not too expensive. Watch what they do and get the settings they set the bike too. Some won't want to give you their settings but I told them up front they weren't getting paid until I have them.

This is really the easiest way. You'll find that the suspension needs small adjustments often (once a year and when you do different types of riding), learn what was done and you can do this stuff yourself.

 

[Nastee]

Thank you sir as that's what i was needing was kind of an explanation as to whatv and why to adjust.

All spot on direction that will be helpful. No one has said it directly but you will need to up grade rear shock or it's internals at the very least. Your weight + the wife is catapulting the rear suspension. Spring rate is to low for you but can get by; with 2nd rider it is apparently inadequate. Contact shock company like racetech provide weight level of skill etc. & they tell you what is needed. Adjusting stock components has hard limitations from 230pds & above. Your going to have spend at least a little $ but remember it's to correct a safety issue.

 

[sixpack577]

For any of you that don't have your suspension set, it's adjustable for a reason.
Well worth doing, and will increase your riding confidence and ability.
Check your tire pressure.
Make sure the chain is adjusted correctly.
Little things, that are actually big things, that are often overlooked, but really make a big difference in the handling and overall ride.

@Dopey, is there any shop within a reasonsble ride from where you live?
Since you've been reading, adjusting, struggling...I could almost laugh.
Because, your one light bulb moment away from it working for you.
If you have a suspension guy show you, and walk you through it...you'll get it.
It frustrated me for a long time too, now, I can get it where I need it to be, and know how to get there.
Try writing down your settings, go ride, stop, and turn the fork compression or rebound 2 full turns either way.
You will now notice the loss or improvement in handling. It either got better or worse.
Stop turn it again either way. Same thing, does it feel better, or worse?
This is what you have to after setting sag anyway...fine tune. Fine tuning is usually a half turn at a time too. 2 full turns is to make a dramatic enough change so that you notice it, only now you know why, because you know what did to make it get that way.
The measuring sag gets you as close as it can within a range for Your weight(30-40mm)
Next, is as described above.
Preload, try 3-4 lines visible.
That should take a 10mm box end wrench,
mark a hex corner, count your turns, get the visible lines eyeballed evenly fork to fork.
Measure(a small metric ruler/scale is easist.
Turn one or other until their heigth matches.
The rear needs the spanner wrench.
For a gen2, 170-190lb rider, 3 threads visible above the top lock ring(tight), will get you in the ballpark.
Putting a passenger on will require more preload for similiar handling.

 

[sixpack577]

If you can find an adjustable spanner wrench(I don't what you foreigners call it, since you call all your wrenches spanners, but here n Murica...this is an adjustable spanner wrench).
Worth it's weight in gold, I haven't looked in a couple years, but these aren't the easiest thing to come by unfortunately.
This one was sold by Yamaha, and in Yahmaha packaging.
Notice the 3/8 drive in the handle(so you can put a breaker bar on those bastard locknuts that won't move). Which is also why some penatrating oil is a good idea.
Alot of tension, alot of heat generated as the locknut turns, especially tightening the spring. As well as dry threads that have likely been untouched for a long time.
And, the spring should turn with just the wrench itself, the breaker bar is just that, for breaking it loose, it's not needed for tightening it, they're lock/jam nuts, they don't need the death touch to stay tight.
Unless you just use the breaker bar for reach and leverage.
One of these wrenches fits easily under the seat

 

[sixpack577]

......

 

[Dopey]

For any of you that don't have your suspension set, it's adjustable for a reason.
Well worth doing, and will increase your riding confidence and ability.
Check your tire pressure.
Make sure the chain is adjusted correctly.
Little things, that are actually big things, that are often overlooked, but really make a big difference in the handling and overall ride.

@Dopey, is there any shop within a reasonsble ride from where you live?
Since you've been reading, adjusting, struggling...I could almost laugh.
Because, your one light bulb moment away from it working for you.
If you have a suspension guy show you, and walk you through it...you'll get it.
It frustrated me for a long time too, now, I can get it where I need it to be, and know how to get there.
Try writing down your settings, go ride, stop, and turn the fork compression or rebound 2 full turns either way.
You will now notice the loss or improvement in handling. It either got better or worse.
Stop turn it again either way. Same thing, does it feel better, or worse?
This is what you have to after setting sag anyway...fine tune. Fine tuning is usually a half turn at a time too. 2 full turns is to make a dramatic enough change so that you notice it, only now you know why, because you know what did to make it get that way.
The measuring sag gets you as close as it can within a range for Your weight(30-40mm)
Next, is as described above.
Preload, try 3-4 lines visible.
That should take a 10mm box end wrench,
mark a hex corner, count your turns, get the visible lines eyeballed evenly fork to fork.
Measure(a small metric ruler/scale is easist.
Turn one or other until their heigth matches.
The rear needs the spanner wrench.
For a gen2, 170-190lb rider, 3 threads visible above the top lock ring(tight), will get you in the ballpark.
Putting a passenger on will require more preload for similiar handling.

I've actually talked to the few shops I've been in for tires and such and they are clueless and I had no confidence in letting them touch my suspension. I know as big as I am the stock suspension needs upgraded anyway but I did manage to do just what you said and went out adjusting a couple clicks at a time until now it feels allot better and not quite so much spring effect on the rear.