HD Question

[F=MA]

Can anyone help me understand this?

I couple of years ago my wife finally persuaded me to replace our 19" television with a new 52" Samsung plasma screen...1080p. It's much nicer for watching the four of five hours of television we watch each week (ten hours during football season).

I then learned I needed to get a special converter box from the cable company to allow the television to receive HD channels...so I did. I also bought a HDMI cable to connect the cable box with the television.

Now I have HD channels and non HD channels. I can quickly switch between the non HD and HD version of the same channel, and I am unable to see any real difference between the two.

I have 20/20 corrected vision, and I'm used to critically inspecting photographs pixel by pixel. In other words I can see reasonably well.

I've seen HD television in hotels and it looks so much sharper...I can actually tell a difference.

Anyone have any thoughts why I'm not seeing any real difference?

 

[turbobusa2000]

Apparently your not getting an HD signal. I would contact your service provider.

 

[G-Rom]

^ What he said

 

[F=MA]

Apparently your not getting an HD signal. I would contact your service provider.

Okay, I hadn't thought of that. If I'm not getting an HD signal, why am I receiving HD channels?

 

[turbobusa2000]

Why do you assume its and HD channel, because it says it in the lower corner of the screen. I had a buddy that was paying for HD for a couple of weeks before he realized he wasnt actually getting it. He got on the phone and the sat. company corrected it over the phone with him in a couple of minutes.

Not sure where you are located but you could hook up an antenna to get an HD signal for comparison purposes. I don't pay for cable and live between to major cities and pick up about 40 over the air channels of which about 2/3's are HD. Good luck

 

[F=MA]

I assume it's an HD channel because it's in a special "HD section" of the cable menu. The television also cycles display sizes when I have a HD channel selected and a "non-HD" commercial is broadcast.

The television seems to know when the input signal allows for full resolution and when it doesn't. This also leads me to assume the signal is HD.

I really have no way to know beyond that, and my impression that either something is not right, or HD is way overhyped.

What's an "antenna"? I can't say I've used one of those for thirty years.

 

[F=MA]

BTW I did just fire off an e-mail question to the cable provider. I should have thought to ask the cable technician yesterday when he was out to replace the underground cable I somehow damaged with a Bobcat last weekend.

 

[turbobusa2000]

Well, I know that when watching my brothers HD plasma screen with a non HD dish network signal the picture is crap compared to my over the air signal. I would have to say something isn't right and you should be able to tell the difference.... clearly.

I hear you about the antenna. I tell people I still use one and they look like they don't know what it is, especially younger people.

 

[djsin]

even the hd channels have non hd content on them from time to time so in essence it will have an hd signal with a lower quality picture

check your tv's setting and make sure you are on 1080i or 1080p setting you may have it set in the menu as 720 also on the front of the cable box is a button (farthest one to the right)that allows you to change the picture quality from 480-720-1080 make sure its on the highest setting

 

[F=MA]

I don't have that type of cable box (mine is a Motorola dct6416 III). I don't see anywhere either on the television or on the cable box to select the signal quality.

Guess I'll wait to see what the cable company has to say. It's not that the picture is bad, it's just not perceptably better than non-HD.

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

 

[djsin]

it in the menu on the tv, and may even be in the menu on you rcable box as well if its not a button on the front

 

[TruWrecks]

Samsung DTVs have an 'info' button on the remote. Press that on an HD or non-HD channel and it will tell you what signal and quality it's getting.

Also, I have found that from 46" and up the picture gets bigger at the expense of the sharpness.

 

[zukracer]

so here's the back end of TV stuff (worked for a company that made high end HD tuners for a while)

NTSC - traditional "analog" stations
ATSC - digital "HD capable" stations

When your TV is in the "HD" section its most likely just being broadcast in the ATSC format and still NTSC when in the "regular" section. As most have said, you should check with your provider to determine the source of the issue. Also as suggested, you should get an antenna that will allow for ATSC UHF reception. Your TV will "cycle" as you mentioned when you move between the two types of signal as ATSC is generally broadcast in 16:9 format vs 4:3 of NTSC.

This is an example of one of the better/less expensive antennas on the market Terk HDTVI HDTV Indoor Antenna at TigerDirect.com you can probably find one in the zenith brand at sears, best buy, etc

Once you have one, you will want to check on AntennaWeb to find your local broadcast location(s).

A true HD channel off the air (and possibly on your cable) will have a primary channel and a sub channel (ex NTSC Ch 7 vs ATSC ch 7-1). Also check out the other sources of info for your local stations. Some will use the ATSC feed to do what they call datacast. This is basically sending data across the back side of the TV feed. Most larger stations can blast about 25-40mb/sec of data where HD signals only really need ~12mb/sec (you can see there's some extra room there )

I guess there it all boils down to verification of the signal, validating it at your termination point by the company and if you are up to it, get the antenna and see if you can find a difference that way (plus if might help prove your point to the cable co )

For more than you probably ever wanted to know about all things HD, check the links/info at Welcome to Digital Connection -Home Theater and Multimedia PC Convergence Products

 

[F=MA]

it in the menu on the tv, and may even be in the menu on you rcable box as well if its not a button on the front

I've looked through the menus on both and don't seem to have any options, short of adjusting the picture size to "just scan", which causes the picture to change sizes as I wrote earlier.

TruWrecks thanks for that information. There's something strange I found there. When I pull up the information for HD vs. non-HD channels, all the information is the same. The resolution is 1920x1080i regardless whether a HD channel is selected or not...that almost sounds like it's just showing the native screen resolution. The information stays the same regardless whether I have 16:9, zoom, or "just scan" selected.

Thanks also zukracer. I had hoped there would be a member here who was a cable technician or had other specialized knowledge. Your explanation of ATSC v. NTSC seems like it explains why the picture size changes, and why that may be independent of a true HD signal altogether.

It's tough for me to accept that I may have to buy an antenna for what was a $3500 television, despite paying $100/month for digital HD cable service. That seems like a ridiculous step back into the 1950's. If I don't find a satisfactory response from the cable company I might have to do that to troubleshoot further.

Again, I don't get a bad picture. It's just that there is no discernable difference in picture quality between HD and non-HD channels. I understand some programs aren't broadcast in HD, but I can't believe in two years I've never stumbled across one that was. Aren't network carried NFL games broadcast in HD? That's usually when I start thinking about picture quality...as was the case when I decided to watch the last hour of the Steelers/Titans game last night when I started this thread.

I've heard people who use an antenna say the picture quality difference is huge, but since cable signal quality is (at least from my experience) far superior to reception with an antenna, I wonder if I'm expecting too much?

If in fact I am receiving a true HD signal, then HD is the most ridiculously overrated technology I've experienced to date.

I'm looking forward to hearing from the cable company.

Thanks again all.

 

[madmax]

You say you are using an HDMI cable from cable box to TV? Is that the only connection from box to tv? Make sure your TV "input" or "source" is on HDMI 1 (or 2)

I have seen this oh so many times.

 

[F=MA]

You say you are using an HDMI cable from cable box to TV? Is that the only connection from box to tv? Make sure your TV "input" or "source" is on HDMI 1 (or 2)

I have seen this oh so many times.

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes HDMI is the only source, and is selected.

 

[madmax]

Cool, I know that is obvious but I have seen that scenario many times. When I was a service Tech at Time Warner Cable, our tech calls were always free of charge so I say get them over there becuase you should see a large difference between the two formats. Also, with the Motorola Boxes, I think if you power off the box and then hold in the power button for 5-10 seconds it should bring up a menu, from there you can check the output settings. Good luck man and don't give up, when you get it working you won't be sorry.

 

[madmax]

Also, if you have some RGB component cables laying around, give those a try for the hell of it.

 

[NickSully]

One thing you may want to try is hooking up some rabbit ears to your TV. In most areas you can get all major channels over the air for free in HD and that will tell you if the Cable box is the problem or if your TV is stuck in a 480 SD mode.

 

[F=MA]

Okay, now running out of the cable box with RCA jacks into an AV in jack on the television. HDMI cable is disconnected.

Picture quality has deteriorated to some degree on all channels. Picture appears a little blurry compared to before. HD channels seem to be incrementally better (perhaps 10%...I don't really know how to quantify it) than non-HD. There are also now very faint traces of "visual noise" for lack of a better term.

When I pull up the info window on the television, it no longer displays any information regarding resolution as it did with HDMI cable. I've also lost the ability to select the "just scan" option on the television which automatically adjusts the screen size based on the signal type.

So...it appears the HDMI cable is in fact beneficial for this particular combination of television/cable box. As non-HD channels seem to improve in direct correlation with HD channels during HDMI input, I still don't believe this is HD at it's finest.

Still waiting for contact from the cable company. It will be interesting to see what they come up with. There has to be some reason why no one has joined this thread with a similar "HD is overrated" experience that I'm struggling with.

As I wrote before, overnight we went from a 19", fifteen year old television to this thing...and the initial difference was stunning. My confusion has manifested as a result of not seeing a difference between "hd" and "non-hd" channels...then reading and hearing people rave about how great HD is.

The company hotel in Boston has a HD television service in the guest rooms that make you say "wow". You can really see a difference. That system is probably satellite fed, as most hotels seem to be. That is the benchmark I'm using.

Thanks again for the suggestions all.