Gen3 quick shifter doesnt work like its supposed

Busa3Fan said:
Why do you consider the BMW GS not an established and robust bike?

30 years of GS and “In May 2009, the 500,000th GS was produced, an R1200GSmodel.“ is not enough for the GS to be considered an established and robust bike?

In my opinion it is both, and much more than Hayabusa.

People on GS make hundreds of thousands of km and they run their bikes all over the world, sometimes in very bad conditions, including off-road.

I don’t consider ok what Suzuki did with Gen 3 Hayabusa quickshifter, and the other issues that some of you have have.

But I still love it. :)
Click to expand...
Still apples to oranges, the BMW GS series has been around since the '70s and has gone though many evolutions since it came out. In the beginning it was like a robust "army Jeep" and could take a real beating, only from what I've heard through the old timer BMW owners, the new ones will not take the beating nor are they user friendly when it comes to maintenance or repairs. Both bikes in "Long Way Around" broke in half, which is something the old bikes would not have done.

My brother is a perfect example of BMW ownership where he has a "78 RT with over 500,000 miles on it with no major work done and a new(er) 2000's era RT which has over 150,000 miles on it but has had major issues-he was able to fix it himself but if it had needed to go to a dealership it would have been very, very expensive to repair.

The Suzuki Hayabusa is supposed to be a flagship bike for Suzuki and they SHOULD be taking any issues seriously and issuing a TSB.
 
PeregrineKeith said:
I’ve had my bike dynoed by CM$ and when we discussed the tuning he mentioned that even the QS fix he has isn’t 100%. I don’t believe it’s something he is personally responsible for it’s just something in the tuning that he can manipulate… somewhat..
I was super appreciative that he was honest and upfront that it could or could not fix my issue and I elected to leave mine alone.
I have commented early on about the QS issue and for me I just clutch 1-2 and QS everything else with no issues.
I do run TC 1 but as MonkeyButt mentioned about the TC I’m going to give that a try.
Click to expand...

Definately
Chris Moore is a stand up guy.
He has done alot for the gen3 working with Woolrich.
It says alot that he can improve but not fix the QS...and back to Suzuki we go...
 
sixpack577 said:
No, there is no perfection.
Gen1 and 2 Busas had minor to no issues.
Now several gen3's are basically lemons.
I don't know what you're used to, but when I buy something new...I expect it to work.
If clutch bolts back out from no factory thread locker(gen2), that's an aggravation, but a simple fix.
If the QS won't shift correctly, it doesn't want to restart hot, and the brakes fail...that's some BS...Suzuki is responsible to fix it, and expecting those things to work is Not expecting 'perfection'.
I'm seriously glad your bike works, but am upset for those whose doesn't.
I'de also Really like to go get one...but no way, Murphy's Law says I get the junk bike too.
I know me...and I'm not about to deal with that.
Suzuki's upper management has proven themselves clowns on this one.
F them all.
Click to expand...
I agree,

If someone buys a new bike (or anything) why should the new owner be conducting the R&D? If anything would piss me off and turn me away from a brand, that would be it.

If I bought a gen 3 and had any one of these issues and had the dealership just shrug their shoulders, I'd be more than pissed off and that would go for anything I bought with the expectation of a warranty or servicing.

I think along the same lines as you do, if I had one and got the sort of reception from Suzuki, I'd ride it right through the showroom.
 
sixpack577 said:
If you don't think randomly failing brakes on a 2nd year bike is a catastrophe...I don't know what is.
Again, I do Not want to hear of Anyone hurt in a crash from this, but it seems that's what it may take to get people's attention. But, it will also be very hard to prove.
The whole point of all my griping is that Suzuki has become like so many others...a bunch of care less, do nothing, worthless bastards.
Click to expand...
My comment on catastrophizing was me trying to acknowledge your feelings about all of this. I hear you, I see you, I acknowledge you and your feelings. I don't care about Suzuki management.
TonyM995 said:
I'm rewiring my bike because I am a fan of onboard electronics. I just want ones that will get me down a drag strip vs cruising around comfortably. I'm also looking for complete tuning control so that's not a normal use case.

It feels like you're catastrophizing, I hear you and agree nobody wants to deal with spending a lot of money on new stuff and have issues. I can't comment on Suzuki Management but I do hear you.
Click to expand...

If you guys want to figure this out then follow the data. It can all be reverse engineered.

Maybe it's how the ECU is controlling the throttle valve opening as noted in the Service Manual screehshot below. You can replicate the signals sent for the entire QS process until you determine where the defect is. If it's a defect in the code of the ECU it can be updated. This is exactly what Greg is doing for the MaxxECU stuff. Maybe the delay won't happen with the Maxx which would basically prove it to be the ecu if all of the other components are unchanged.

1672685552943.png


Maybe try Mode 2 first and see if it still happens. If that's the fix then all of the negative emotions and poop talk are for nothing.

Either way I choose to protect my own well-being and not get upset with KTM or Suzuki. Again KTM had way more issues and cost more.

This delay happened so few times to me I never even thought to mention it to my best friends who ride with me.
 
TonyM995 said:
My comment on catastrophizing was me trying to acknowledge your feelings about all of this. I hear you, I see you, I acknowledge you and your feelings. I don't care about Suzuki management.


If you guys want to figure this out then follow the data. It can all be reverse engineered.

Maybe it's how the ECU is controlling the throttle valve opening as noted in the Service Manual screehshot below. You can replicate the signals sent for the entire QS process until you determine where the defect is. If it's a defect in the code of the ECU it can be updated. This is exactly what Greg is doing for the MaxxECU stuff. Maybe the delay won't happen with the Maxx which would basically prove it to be the ecu if all of the other components are unchanged.

View attachment 1659830

Maybe try Mode 2 first and see if it still happens. If that's the fix then all of the negative emotions and poop talk are for nothing.

Either way I choose to protect my own well-being and not get upset with KTM or Suzuki. Again KTM had way more issues and cost more.

This delay happened so few times to me I never even thought to mention it to my best friends who ride with me.
Click to expand...

Well, the QS should work correctly in All of the modes, as it apparently does on most gen3's.
I agree that the ecu settings are a good place to look too, but if that is the case; then why are ecu flashes not correcting all of them?
It makes me wonder if it's mechanical?
As in the tolerances on the transmission gears it out of spec, or interacting parts are at far opposite ends of tolerance?
Similar to, or the beginnings of 2nd gear slipping.
Of course that involves transmission removal to measure parts.
Does the gen3 transmission slide out like the gsxr's does(I don't think it does)? Or is it still old school/you have to split the cases?
Part of me would be irate if I buy a new gen3 and I have these issues. But, on the other hand, like you, I think if I had them that I could figure out why.
I just don't want to have to go to the trouble of fixing things on a brand new bike.
Putting parts on new bikes is supposed to be fun, and I have enough bikes to fix at the moment! lol
 
If it was mechanical, it should happen every time with or without a QS.

All tuning with a Woolich does is give the tuner the ability to map certain tables. The overall ecu program is going to be compiled source code just like any other application. Woolich doesn’t give access to the source code.

I just found this open source ecu so you can see what source code for an ecu looks like.
github.com

GitHub - rusefi/rusefi: rusefi - GPL internal combustion engine control unit

rusefi - GPL internal combustion engine control unit - rusefi/rusefi
github.com github.com

Code for a MAP sensor:
github.com

rusefi/map.cpp at master · rusefi/rusefi

rusefi - GPL internal combustion engine control unit - rusefi/map.cpp at master · rusefi/rusefi
github.com github.com

I promise Suzuki source code is more complex than that open source project.

The Gen 3 ecu code has logic that executes the QS function, which is to cut ignition momentarily. The main goal of regular people like us is to figure out what component isn’t working. The input sensor, ecu, or the output the ecu is controlling. Per the service manual it states “and the ECM controls the ignition timing, throttle valve opening, and the fuel injection volume to be injected”. These are the three outputs that the ecu has a programmed response for based on the QS input.

If changing the input sensor to a Woolich or other brand QS doesn’t fix the issue then the problem is downstream of that sensor. Either in the ecu or the outputs it’s controlling from the QS input.
 
Their electronic throttle has over 1,100 lines of code. This is a cool open source project that’s actively being developed.

It’s interesting to look through and read the comments even if you don’t understand the code.

github.com

rusefi/firmware/controllers/actuators/electronic_throttle.cpp at master · rusefi/rusefi

rusefi - GPL internal combustion engine control unit - rusefi/rusefi
github.com github.com

The more I think about how the lag felt to me it seems like how they control the throttle would be the most likely culprit.
 
On mine, it's either going to N from 1 to 2 on hard acceleration or the engine bogging even with the nannies turned off.

I get an LF indication in 1 or 2 regardless and the engine bogs for a moment and then suddenly goes full power, which is always a surprise and makes me hold on to dear life.

If not, the bike wheelies from 2 to 3 on Mode A. Such an unpredictable bike. I've learned to like it. It's like winning a mini-lottery every ride.

Do I get full acceleration from 1 to 2 or an LF light? Do I stay in gear or go to N and have to slow down to a stop in order to safely engage 2?

Will the bike keep the front wheel down or lift it close to redline from 2 to 3? Ha-ha! At least the front brakes haven't acted up anymore after a week or more of not moving the bike.
 
TonyM995 said:
If it was mechanical, it should happen every time with or without a QS.

All tuning with a Woolich does is give the tuner the ability to map certain tables. The overall ecu program is going to be compiled source code just like any other application. Woolich doesn’t give access to the source code.

I just found this open source ecu so you can see what source code for an ecu looks like.
github.com

GitHub - rusefi/rusefi: rusefi - GPL internal combustion engine control unit

rusefi - GPL internal combustion engine control unit - rusefi/rusefi
github.com github.com

Code for a MAP sensor:
github.com

rusefi/map.cpp at master · rusefi/rusefi

rusefi - GPL internal combustion engine control unit - rusefi/map.cpp at master · rusefi/rusefi
github.com github.com

I promise Suzuki source code is more complex than that open source project.

The Gen 3 ecu code has logic that executes the QS function, which is to cut ignition momentarily. The main goal of regular people like us is to figure out what component isn’t working. The input sensor, ecu, or the output the ecu is controlling. Per the service manual it states “and the ECM controls the ignition timing, throttle valve opening, and the fuel injection volume to be injected”. These are the three outputs that the ecu has a programmed response for based on the QS input.

If changing the input sensor to a Woolich or other brand QS doesn’t fix the issue then the problem is downstream of that sensor. Either in the ecu or the outputs it’s controlling from the QS input.
Click to expand...

Not nesacerily so.
If you have ever ridden a bike with a failing 2nd gear(it's not just a gen1 thing), it can happen gradually, and it takes a while before it happens every time.
It starts out at higher rpms, until the gear(s) wear enough.
They can start with one bad place, not the entire diameter of the gear, so it intially starts only when it hits this spot.
Non factory QS's have been known to cause 2nd, 5th, and other gear failures as well.
The guys having this problem have stated the QS mainly malfunctions when shifting to 2nd, but is ok in other gears.
So they clutch 2nd and QS the rest.
To me, this leaves the door open to the possibility of a mechanical problem.
As if it was electronic(and may still be, or a combination of both mechanical and electronic), then it would seem that the flash reprogramming the ignition kill and actual shift timing would correct all of the effected bikes.
I would really like to tear apart one of these known failing QS bikes and measure all the gears and forks.

As for the abs, and having installed ss lines and bled them on the gsxr1k with abs, tc, and qs, and with zero issues, my money is on the abs pump as the culprit.

I have only sat on a gen3, so I cannot say exactly what the problem is.
But, this is what my many years of riding and wrenching has made me belive.
This is where I would start looking if I had the opportunity...and hopefully not on my own new gen3, lmao, should I eat my words and cave.
I'm just lucky there isn't a black '23 at a good price anywhere close by. I b*tch and complain about their problems...but I still really want one.
Luckily I have my new to me 03 1k to play with in the meantime, and the '18 1k might as well be mine too, lol
 
I had a lot of issues with the QS on my SFV4S, so can totally sympathize with the frustration. I ended up replacing it with an aftermarket and that helped a little.

I picked up my Gen 3 today and it seemed to work flawlessly and better than both my SFV4S and S1000XR. I’ll keep an eye on it and see if that changes.

I’m wondering if it’s a specific flash version on the ECU that causes it or a batch of faulty sensors on the QS linkage.
 
Last edited:
SPECIALFORCESOFGOD said:
On mine, it's either going to N from 1 to 2 on hard acceleration or the engine bogging even with the nannies turned off.

I get an LF indication in 1 or 2 regardless and the engine bogs for a moment and then suddenly goes full power, which is always a surprise and makes me hold on to dear life.

If not, the bike wheelies from 2 to 3 on Mode A. Such an unpredictable bike. I've learned to like it. It's like winning a mini-lottery every ride.

Do I get full acceleration from 1 to 2 or an LF light? Do I stay in gear or go to N and have to slow down to a stop in order to safely engage 2?

Will the bike keep the front wheel down or lift it close to redline from 2 to 3? Ha-ha! At least the front brakes haven't acted up anymore after a week or more of not moving the bike.
Click to expand...
That’s sounds more like a lift control or traction setting issue.
 
Honestly guys I think the brake fade is caused by the abs. I think the valve isn't programmed correctly. It's also like it's in the open position when off so it seems like brake fade but it's not.... Half tempted to unplug the abs and delete the code to see if it stops. Very random when it does happen.
 
GSXRme said:
Honestly guys I think the brake fade is caused by the abs. I think the valve isn't programmed correctly. It's also like it's in the open position when off so it seems like brake fade but it's not.... Half tempted to unplug the abs and delete the code to see if it stops. Very random when it does happen.
Click to expand...

Cool, we need someone familiar with bikes, Busas and the gen3 to figure this out.
My money has been on the abs pump since the get go.
 
smithabusa said:
what I found was that traction control being ON seems to give the weird additional engine kill on QS, usually in the 1-2 change, if you turn TC off an try again you might see it just shifts and goes.
Click to expand...

I thought it was in my head but I’ve found this too. I haven’t used tcs for 3+ months Andy can’t think of a time I had a lag issue. I know I haven’t since I deleted the abs block altogether.
 
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