Dont these guys have anything else to do ? I dont know where you live but I live in So. CA. there is alot of crime out here, I drive about 200-300 miles a day on my job and most of the time these guys are giving out tickets ! and I do mean most of the time. I think that is why there is a problem with the public and the cops. Anyway fight it, it is worth a try
falsifing evidence
- Thread starter OB_maui
- Start date
Todd, No I didn't take that as being non sympathetic. At least with moving violations you have the sence that you earned them. These were stupid. And your right about having your papers in order. The vehicles that I own are ALL in order. We'll see how it goes, feb 15th is the court date.
Maui, sounds like you got one that is a little hard-nosed, based on what you saying. What's with that guy that owns the bike? Owner not coming back? Is that bike a drug trade-in, or what? A little fishy there.
Laws vary slightly from state to state. Insurance laws are good and valid, but I find it strange that you got cited if you don't own the bike. In some states, it's the owner that gets in trouble for allowing someone to operate his vehicle without proper insurance, not you. An insurance conviction may affect your rates, but other equipment violations will not.
That cite for the tag not being visible is a little "green". A warning would have been fine. Was the tag at the end of the fender, or mounted underneath the fenderwell, in front to the back tire? In my state, the law requires that in addition to being a valid plate, it must be visible in normal conditions from 100 feet back, and be displayed horizontally (no kidding), have no tinted or clear covers to further obstruct view, etc. Any decent cop would not try to convict by getting a picture while standing over the seat. A valid photo should be taken from a height near where someone would sit in a car's driver's seat, behind the bike.
It's great that you were respectful, but that is to be EXPECTED; to be ethical, cites should be based on the violation, not attitude; good cops know this.
Yes, some people do perceive motorcyclists unfairly. That's why we should do all we can to work on our public image, which bolsters our legal position regarding Rider Rights, and protects us from unfair legislation, insurance regulations, etc.
Redelk is right. The judge isn't going anywhere off the bench. Take photos into court. BUT: most D.A.s will drop the lesser charges, for a plea on the serious charges, so don't sweat the tag cite. The insurance cites could pose the most serious threat to your rates perhaps.
Mr9R: Don't buy into the tales of beating radar. Radar is used to corroborate the operator's judgment. The officer interprets the readings, and is trained to know the difference. (Too complicated to address here). Radar is recognized itself as a sound science (Doppler radar), so the only issues that ever will come up in court will be with the operator (what he saw, certifications, etc.) Decent departments ensure that officers show up in court; not showing is unprofessional, unfair to citizens, and good judges don't like it, so in the future, in most places, this isn't going to be a good gamble to getting out of a cite.
Cisco: Covering for each other? I would hope not. If so, shame. Legitimate cops abide by principles, and wouldn't stand for nonsense, but it does happen. And guess what, decent cops would rather get rid of the trash quicker that citizens. WE have to work with the trouble makers, who make our job harder by feeding negative public image.
Maui: I have some problem with your story, though. If you were parked in front of a shop, and this meter-maid came by, why all the charges for insurance? A cop has to see you moving to cite a "moving" violation. Just parked, you might at the most get a parking ticket. Did he see you riding before you parked? This isn't a fish story for our entertainment, is it? If not, don't mind helping out....
Laws vary slightly from state to state. Insurance laws are good and valid, but I find it strange that you got cited if you don't own the bike. In some states, it's the owner that gets in trouble for allowing someone to operate his vehicle without proper insurance, not you. An insurance conviction may affect your rates, but other equipment violations will not.
That cite for the tag not being visible is a little "green". A warning would have been fine. Was the tag at the end of the fender, or mounted underneath the fenderwell, in front to the back tire? In my state, the law requires that in addition to being a valid plate, it must be visible in normal conditions from 100 feet back, and be displayed horizontally (no kidding), have no tinted or clear covers to further obstruct view, etc. Any decent cop would not try to convict by getting a picture while standing over the seat. A valid photo should be taken from a height near where someone would sit in a car's driver's seat, behind the bike.
It's great that you were respectful, but that is to be EXPECTED; to be ethical, cites should be based on the violation, not attitude; good cops know this.
Yes, some people do perceive motorcyclists unfairly. That's why we should do all we can to work on our public image, which bolsters our legal position regarding Rider Rights, and protects us from unfair legislation, insurance regulations, etc.
Redelk is right. The judge isn't going anywhere off the bench. Take photos into court. BUT: most D.A.s will drop the lesser charges, for a plea on the serious charges, so don't sweat the tag cite. The insurance cites could pose the most serious threat to your rates perhaps.
Mr9R: Don't buy into the tales of beating radar. Radar is used to corroborate the operator's judgment. The officer interprets the readings, and is trained to know the difference. (Too complicated to address here). Radar is recognized itself as a sound science (Doppler radar), so the only issues that ever will come up in court will be with the operator (what he saw, certifications, etc.) Decent departments ensure that officers show up in court; not showing is unprofessional, unfair to citizens, and good judges don't like it, so in the future, in most places, this isn't going to be a good gamble to getting out of a cite.
Cisco: Covering for each other? I would hope not. If so, shame. Legitimate cops abide by principles, and wouldn't stand for nonsense, but it does happen. And guess what, decent cops would rather get rid of the trash quicker that citizens. WE have to work with the trouble makers, who make our job harder by feeding negative public image.
Maui: I have some problem with your story, though. If you were parked in front of a shop, and this meter-maid came by, why all the charges for insurance? A cop has to see you moving to cite a "moving" violation. Just parked, you might at the most get a parking ticket. Did he see you riding before you parked? This isn't a fish story for our entertainment, is it? If not, don't mind helping out....
OB_FalconCOP161
Registered
Maui, Fight it,,Cops in Hawai don't have much to do anyway,, And The day I patrol on a chusman is the day I take Packa out for Shrimp on the Barbie & a fosters !!!! Then rub his Fat belly afterwords )))
161 ®
161 ®
Gixx1300R
Registered
Maui,check to see if this guy has any complaints file against him in his file.That should be public record but I'm not sure.The laws vary from state to state.If he has alot of complaints from bike riders,that shows a history of prejudice and bigotry to motorcycle riders.You can use this in court.
Sarge
Yes, he saw me pull in to park. So he did actually witness me operating the bike. The way the law works in Hawaii, is that I got one ticket for operating a vehicle with out insurance. I got another ticket, since I didn't own the vehicle. The second one is issued to the operator acting as an agent of the owner. All I can guess is, this is an attempt to get to the owner. So two tickets for the insurance.
No, this is not an attempt at entertainment, or fish story. Other wise there would have been a helicopter chase, shoot out, fight, etc. I have the front of the cushman in one of the shots taken and would gladly send it to anyone interested. It shows the back of the R-1, with the tag. The tag is not displayed horizontally, and is probably incorrect in application.
To me, there is no other attitude to have when dealing with the police than one of respect. I have too many friends who do that for a living. Some are very good friends, others just guys who know me well enough to say so. As far as hauling *** all over the place, well I may not be a "perfect" citizen all the time, but I endorse racing at tracks ONLY. I always try to convince younger guys (god that sounds like I'm getting old) to go to the track.
Anyway thanks for the observations, I'd be happy to share any other details, or answer any question you have. I really don't need $770 in fines to teach me a lesson.
FC, my understanding is that the guy has been busted down to meter maid. He's not a good cop. I know plenty that are. None of them like this guy. I'm sure you got a guy like this in your dept. Law of averages.
Gixxer
Thanks, I'll check that out too.
Maui
Yes, he saw me pull in to park. So he did actually witness me operating the bike. The way the law works in Hawaii, is that I got one ticket for operating a vehicle with out insurance. I got another ticket, since I didn't own the vehicle. The second one is issued to the operator acting as an agent of the owner. All I can guess is, this is an attempt to get to the owner. So two tickets for the insurance.
No, this is not an attempt at entertainment, or fish story. Other wise there would have been a helicopter chase, shoot out, fight, etc. I have the front of the cushman in one of the shots taken and would gladly send it to anyone interested. It shows the back of the R-1, with the tag. The tag is not displayed horizontally, and is probably incorrect in application.
To me, there is no other attitude to have when dealing with the police than one of respect. I have too many friends who do that for a living. Some are very good friends, others just guys who know me well enough to say so. As far as hauling *** all over the place, well I may not be a "perfect" citizen all the time, but I endorse racing at tracks ONLY. I always try to convince younger guys (god that sounds like I'm getting old) to go to the track.
Anyway thanks for the observations, I'd be happy to share any other details, or answer any question you have. I really don't need $770 in fines to teach me a lesson.
FC, my understanding is that the guy has been busted down to meter maid. He's not a good cop. I know plenty that are. None of them like this guy. I'm sure you got a guy like this in your dept. Law of averages.
Gixxer
Thanks, I'll check that out too.
Maui
Ouch sorry to hear about your troubles. It sounds to me like he must have work the previous night and had an bike run from him. So he just nabes the first one he sees that look like it....
I think its their way of getting closure on the one that got away... He can go home and sleep "THINKING" he nabed that bastard that ran from him.... which is total **** . He did nothing more than harrass an inoccent citzen to satisfy his overblown ego.
Good luck, Go to court if the fines are too high.. That dope probably wont even show up.
I think its their way of getting closure on the one that got away... He can go home and sleep "THINKING" he nabed that bastard that ran from him.... which is total **** . He did nothing more than harrass an inoccent citzen to satisfy his overblown ego.
Good luck, Go to court if the fines are too high.. That dope probably wont even show up.
Sarge
The guy who owns the bike SHOULD go to jail. He did receive his own little stack of tickets (6), one of which was for no license (second offence). Turns out it was second offence on all counts. Some friend huh? If I should be busted for anything, it's being in his company...I honestly did not know this about the guy. Now he's ducking my calls, cause I told him to get his $hit together on the bike!
The guy who owns the bike SHOULD go to jail. He did receive his own little stack of tickets (6), one of which was for no license (second offence). Turns out it was second offence on all counts. Some friend huh? If I should be busted for anything, it's being in his company...I honestly did not know this about the guy. Now he's ducking my calls, cause I told him to get his $hit together on the bike!
G
Guest
Maui - If you didn't have any moving violations then consider yourself lucky as they are much harder to defend against. The non moving technical violations are thrown out in my state once they are corrected and only a small "court cost" is assessed. I don't mean to sound non sympathetic but if all my tickets were like yours I would have a perfect driving record! 
Equipment violations don't effect insurance rates either. (at least not here) Tags, safety inspections and proper equipment (vehicle and personal) should be maintained dilegently so the cops don't have a valid reason to stop you when you aren't violating any moving restictions. Always have proper insurance verification and valid license with MC endorcement ready to present which indicates at least some self responsiblity to the officer. The number of tickets you received could have been easily minimized just by pre preparation before riding the bike in the first place. As many times as I've been stopped (some for valid reasons and some not) in my lifetime I try to anticipate being stopped and have EVERYTHING in legal order as far as ownership and licencing responsibilities. Don't give them easy reasons to stop and/or cite you. Force them to either cite you for something you actually did or be forced to manufacture something you aren't guilty of. In your case the rear tag ticket was questionable but the other offenses apparently were not which could make it more difficult to fight the questionable ticket in court of the valid tickets are taken into consideration.
Equipment violations don't effect insurance rates either. (at least not here) Tags, safety inspections and proper equipment (vehicle and personal) should be maintained dilegently so the cops don't have a valid reason to stop you when you aren't violating any moving restictions. Always have proper insurance verification and valid license with MC endorcement ready to present which indicates at least some self responsiblity to the officer. The number of tickets you received could have been easily minimized just by pre preparation before riding the bike in the first place. As many times as I've been stopped (some for valid reasons and some not) in my lifetime I try to anticipate being stopped and have EVERYTHING in legal order as far as ownership and licencing responsibilities. Don't give them easy reasons to stop and/or cite you. Force them to either cite you for something you actually did or be forced to manufacture something you aren't guilty of. In your case the rear tag ticket was questionable but the other offenses apparently were not which could make it more difficult to fight the questionable ticket in court of the valid tickets are taken into consideration.OB_Cisco San Jose
Registered
Thanks for the insight Sarge and good luck Maui.I know that the right things will come up for you.
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