Da Bugs motor then..... 3 yrs ago

[PaceMaster]

Ugly pic's Bug---I just put 0-40 weight Mobil one in mine and beat the crap of it today during a track day---all i was thinking--please don't blow up. 19 k on her and she held up----Busa Engines are very mysterious----some take a licking and some just grenade.....WHY

and i use 87 octane only.

 

[3rdbusa]

<span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'>That SCARES the crap out of me!! Mine just ran out of warranty and i push her everytime I ride her,

 

 

</span>



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[ks-waterbug]

I also use synthetic oil but never dreamed this would happen to me.... Had less than 5 hours on this oil. Shipping some more parts off today! Going to do the 1397 with J.E. 13:1 pistons. Also having the crank balanced and magna fluxed! Plus, bought a set of cams to bring the beast to life! The head is being completly redone! Bigger valve springs should give me some insurance, don't want to go through this again.........

 

[JINKSTER]

15K Miles and Kapow?

RSD...I think we can rule out the cam chain letting go as there would've been damage in other cylinders as well and I think we can rule out any broken valve springs as that's sumpt'in the bug would've probably noticed right away when he removed his valve cover and head.

Right now I'm wondering about the valve adjust which according to the "Periodic Maint. Chart" which oddly enough should be inspected and adjusted guess when?...EVERY 15K MILES!!!...just when poor bug here decided to goose redline right into the rev limiter and...el boomo.

Ya know...I always hear a lot of stories where folks scorn the recommended valve adjust intervals with claims such as..."I've had a dozen buds pay for that silly valve adjust and it really isn't required because NONE of their valves were outta spec!!!"....well...who's to say that those dozen friends in that quaint story don't ride like a wuss and never got past grandma commuting revs?...meanwhile...back on the farm?...The guys that do ride the he11 outta their bikes are hammering the pi$$ outta THIER valve trains?...to death...literally!

Some might think me all wet here but...it sure is one heck of a coincidence that bugs valves let go during a rev limter event right at the 15K mile mark where suzuki recomends that the valves be inspected and adjusted accordingly...and if nothing else?...this event just convinced me that if I love my busa?...I'll at least take the time too inspect the valve clearances as "Recomended" in the "Periodic Maint. Chart".

L8R, Bill.

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[ks-waterbug]

Hate to admit it...... But, I agree this was my own doing! I had put off the adjustment I thought til summer was over......

 

[JINKSTER]

Hate to admit it...... But, I agree this was my own doing! I had put off the adjustment I thought til summer was over......

Don't feel too bad bug as you're definantly not the first and won't be the last..the good news is you have the mechanical ability to restore it and now a great excuse to opt for the 1397 kit.

Also..maybe through your experience here (as bad as it may seem) you may have just saved many here from suffering a simular experience.

I'm just glad that I'm not the guy at suzuki who hasta come up with these suggested "Periodic Maint." intervals caus there's just no way of telling how easy or abusive the end customer will operate his bike..and while I'm sure they attempt to err to the safe side?..there are still those of us outside the spectrum who may wanna be wise and take heed from this event and actually inspect their valve clearance a tad BEFORE the recommended..for instance...if you know your a real redlining throttle twister you may wanna inspect thos valves at 12K or maybe even 10K miles...as the sinple task of just "Inspecting The Valves Clearances" dosen't require much...just removal of the valve cover and a set of feeler gauges...as it's only the adjustment part that requires cam removal..but at least an "Inspection" would letcha get a good idea of just how critcal (tight) things may be getting in there...in a "preventitive measures" fashion.

Best of luck on the rebuild bug..I know you'll have'er up and running soon and...bigger and badder than ever.

L8R, Bill.

 

[ks-waterbug]

Thanks Bill............

 

[TruWrecks]

1397CC 84MM 13:1 CR #172945 JE $512.00

http://www.hayabusazone.com/pistons.html

This option will put you @ 201HP w/the rest being stock.

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[rubbersidedown]

the valve adjustment... nah. I dont think so Jink.
The valve train wears out,yes, but not too that degree in 15 k. No way. But, dont take my word,call Johonnie Cheese or anybody, most Busa's require NO shim change at the required interval. As the valve train wears,it causes the valves to remain open a tiny bit longer, but not long enuff for them to contact the pistons...

valve adjustment neglected.... burnt valves....

does it have burnt valves Bug ?

 

[JINKSTER]

the valve adjustment...  nah.  I dont think so Jink.
 The valve train wears out,yes, but not too that degree in 15 k.  No way. But, dont take my word,call Johonnie Cheese or anybody, most Busa's require NO shim change at the required interval. As the valve train wears,it causes the valves to remain open a tiny bit longer, but not long enuff for them to contact  the pistons...

  valve adjustment neglected....  burnt valves....

    does it have burnt valves Bug ?

Hey RSD...maybe not..but if not it sure is one he11 of a coincidence..btw...

Valve clearance tolerances are .004"-.008"...a .004 tol. span...if they were on the tight side as supplied oem?...and then no inspection was done after the cams took a seat during break in?...just a few thousandths peening of the "valve/valve seat" interface could see contact with the cam lobe "circle base"...and once it touchs?...viola...HIGH PRESSURE HOT GAS LEAKAGE...and once the edges and backsides of those valves start getting scorched?...it don't take long from there...especially when the riders got a bad redline/rev limiter habit....and hot gas errosion X's 11,000+rpms isn't a slow thing.

I ain't saying I'm dead right..but from what I see of the pix?...I wouldn't bet against it...especially with that "coincidence thing" happening.

L8R, Bill.

 

[rubbersidedown]

the valve adjustment...  nah.  I dont think so Jink.
 The valve train wears out,yes, but not too that degree in 15 k.  No way. But, dont take my word,call Johonnie Cheese or anybody, most Busa's require NO shim change at the required interval. As the valve train wears,it causes the valves to remain open a tiny bit longer, but not long enuff for them to contact  the pistons...

  valve adjustment neglected....  burnt valves....

    does it have burnt valves Bug ?

Hey RSD...maybe not..but if not it sure is one he11 of a coincidence..btw...

Valve clearance tolerances are .004"-.008"...a .004 tol. span...if they were on the tight side as supplied oem?...and then no inspection was done after the cams took a seat during break in?...just a few thousandths peening of the "valve/valve seat" interface could see contact with the cam lobe "circle base"...and once it touchs?...viola...HIGH PRESSURE HOT GAS LEAKAGE...and once the edges and backsides of those valves start getting scorched?...it don't take long from there...especially when the riders got a bad redline/rev limiter habit....and hot gas errosion X's 11,000+rpms isn't a slow thing.

I ain't saying I'm dead right..but from what I see of the pix?...I wouldn't bet against it...especially with that "coincidence thing" happening.

L8R, Bill.

things dont look too bad,'cept for the obvious in 3, and the rich condition 4 was running in. It looks like one of the exhaust valves(the right one)in number 3 hung open. Thats my guess. Check the springs for that bobber,or other contributing factors,maybe the guide...

I hear what yer sayin' thou Jinkster...

I wish I was over at the Bug's garage...

hav a good 1...RSD.

 

[BigBSBusa]

Saw this over at sh.org <a href="http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=47637">1397 Kit<a>

 

[mountainmotor]

Hate to admit it...... But, I agree this was my own doing! I had put off the adjustment I thought til summer was over......

Thats not what caused it though . The motor is shim under bucket . That design stopped loose shims getting spit out of and through a head .
It's all an internet guessing game at this point but for certain the stock valve springs are a little light . The more miles and time spent at high rpm during those miles, the lighter they get " weaker " . I never spoke about a broken valve spring , just a weak one or a head that had been apart possibly and not reassembled properly .

If the closed pressure cannot control the valve during an over rev , you better have mucho axial clearance and there was a collision . Thats what breaks the valves at a location like that .

Also enter cam chain stretch . The more stretch the more it retards the exhaust cam . The more the exhaust cam is retarded , the closer the valve is to the piston during overlap . Factor is a light spring there and POW .

But ,you do still have a good rod bearing on that cylinder... correct ?

It would be nice to check the valve springs but since your gong with all new parts it don't much matter since the damage is done .

 

[ks-waterbug]

Rod hammered, rod bearing? Going to replace everything since she's already apart.... Cheap insurance. Having the crank balanced and checked for true, cracks, etc. Plus, going to do the cam swap, bigger valve springs, big bore! Wondering if I should up grade the clutch springs and supt the slave cylinder? Heard starting can be a bear for big bore motors. Like to eat batteries...

 

[Cuffee]

15K Miles and Kapow?

RSD...I think we can rule out the cam chain letting go as there would've been damage in other cylinders as well and I think we can rule out any broken valve springs as that's sumpt'in the bug would've probably noticed right away when he removed his valve cover and head.

Right now I'm wondering about the valve adjust which according to the "Periodic Maint. Chart" which oddly enough should be inspected and adjusted guess when?...EVERY 15K MILES!!!...just when poor bug here decided to goose redline right into the rev limiter and...el boomo.

Ya know...I always hear a lot of stories where folks scorn the recommended valve adjust intervals with claims such as..."I've had a dozen buds pay for that silly valve adjust and it really isn't required because NONE of their valves were outta spec!!!"....well...who's to say that those dozen friends in that quaint story don't ride like a wuss and never got past grandma commuting revs?...meanwhile...back on the farm?...The guys that do ride the he11 outta their bikes are hammering the pi$$ outta THIER valve trains?...to death...literally!

Some might think me all wet here but...it sure is one heck of a coincidence that bugs valves let go during a rev limter event right at the 15K mile mark where suzuki recomends that the valves be inspected and adjusted accordingly...and if nothing else?...this event just convinced me that if I love my busa?...I'll at least take the time too inspect the valve clearances as "Recomended" in the "Periodic Maint. Chart".

L8R, Bill.

Thanks for the info and advice....Sorry Bug!!!!!! I am sure that all will go well.

 

[rubbersidedown]

Rod hammered, rod bearing?

bearing got hammered because piston met valve...

I'm not sure I understand yer last post Bug.

Sure...replace everything...why not...

If it were me, I would want to know the cause.
What if the cam chain had somthing to do with it,and it doesn't get replaced.

Friendly advice.... if yer not a drag racer....

Why bother.

Find a good motor outa some squid fugwads downed Busa.

Buy it,bolt it in. happy days are here again.

Do you have any idea how much the balacing/blue printing,head,valves,springs,gaskets,cams,chains,rods,pistons,head work,machining,beefed up battery,starter gears,......blah blah blah... its endless...you'll be months gettin' back in the saddle...

just be preparred for a shid-load of expenses...

and the fact that yer now sittin' on a motor that could NUKE easier than the one you had before.


friendly warning.... Rubbah.

 

[NCBusa2001]

Bad news at the start of the season.

RSD does have a point. You will spend way less on a "used" motor and will be back on the road after an afternoon of work.

Although, it would be nice to be able to claim >200 hp. But seriously how much did you truly "use" the 160hp that you had before. Once or twice a week for a few seconds at a time, maybe? Why spend $5-10K and months of downtime for something that you might never get full benefit from anyways?

Either way the point is to get back in the saddle again. Hope it is soon. Good luck, Chris

 

[ks-waterbug]

Thanks guys... RSD, I meant I didn't even think to check the condition of the bearings. Just planned on replacing them anyway.. To late for a used motor mines a work in progress, I'll keep you posted.

 

[Revlis]

Hmmm, Dude sorry to hear about it Bug... Pisser.

Freakin creepy though, but this is the first one I have heard of dying of natural causes in over two years. Most of the failures are the results of turbo or Nitrous.

 

[ks-waterbug]

Rev, good to see ya back.... Natural causes, I like that.