Could you have avoided this accident

Ok by my evaluation she is moving at 35 seconds. He doesnt hit her till 38 seconds. Thats 3 seconds that he didnt react at all. his breaks dont even sound or look depressed till 37.5. by my math he was doing roughly 45 mph. which is 20 over in a residential like that? Seems the fault is shared for sure. and yes easily avoidable. Slow the heck down in residential area be aware of KIDS CARS PETS. just imagine if that was a kid that ran out in front of him.

This is a rough one to play Devil's advocate on because sure... we all want to be safe and avoid kids and pets, and that kind of pulls at the heart strings...but...

This is simply an accident. If you look close, there is a mild corner just before the car. The woman probably looked in her mirror 4 seconds before pulling out and didn't bother to check again, and the rider was going a bit too quick, and we could all make speculations like the car driver might have pulled out and gone even faster on that road than the rider, or if the rider was doing the speed limit, then it would have been avoided.

However, If the driver had pulled out normally and headed the correct direction, or if a kid would have run out in the road, I think I could have avoided the accident.
The simple fact is though, that the driver blocked most of the road with a very irresponsible U-turn and everything else is speculation.

The rider could be going 10mph and a kid could jump out from between two cars and land on the front fender...who's fault is it then? I say the parents, but hey...

Another example is more to the point...

I ride safely most of the time...really. I even do the speed limit when cars and other bikes are passing me on the freeway. Once in awhile though I lay on the throttle for a few seconds and I'd be lying if I told you that I hadn't blasted through some lights at 80mph in a 40 when the road looks safe in my time.
Now, if I'm blasting through that light and a motorist runs the red and kills me...who's fault is it? Ok... now what if I'm cruising through that light at 35 and the motorist runs the red and kills me?

Think about it.

Most sport motorcyclists run a little high in speed from time to time, and that is balanced with the performance of the machine along with the rider's skill level in operating at that speed... and sure...it's a risk, but not even close to the risk that anyone takes being on the same road with my Mom....that's suicide. See my point?

Sean
 
when i saw the vid i also thought he was going too fast in that area.....whenever your in a neighborhood with cars all around you you wanna slow your roll and look for car pulling out or tuning like this...i dunno how some guys I've ridden with just go out and pay no attention to could be's...im either too skittish or just too damn lame nowadays...lol
 
If the guy was doing 20 over in densely populated residential area he deserves that broken leg. What if it would have been a little kid?
 
Since we all pretty much agree, he was speeding + she was stupid = tough lesson. I must ask, who puts 3 hd hero cams on a 250? For the price of that hardware he coulda put a bigger down on a better bike. (probably woulda had better brakes too)
 
I'd say gear and RPM would reveal how fast he was going. Sounded/looked like more than 30. But no I don't know if I could have reacted either especially on a heavier bike like a Busa.
 
This talk about how we all speed and everything is great, but we don't all speed all the time. The speed limit on my street is 30 MPH, but I never break 20 MPH because I don't feel like I could safely go any faster. The same goes for most of the other streets in my neighborhood. Where I live is all curves and hills with cars parked sporadically on either side of the street. I couldn't live with myself if I hit a neighbor's kid or pet, never mind wrecking my bike because I couldn't avoid an unexpected car door, basketball, or runaway Radio Flyer. We just have to use some common sense about the environment we're riding in.

Since we all pretty much agree, he was speeding + she was stupid = tough lesson. I must ask, who puts 3 hd hero cams on a 250? For the price of that hardware he coulda put a bigger down on a better bike. (probably woulda had better brakes too)

Actually, the 250R is a fairly popular bike in the Motovlog community. Maybe that's what he was up to. Or maybe he was in it for a good insurance settlement. :laugh:
 
Hard to say...my first impression is in that neighborhood, sort of curvy roads, lots of cars parked along each side, I think I'd be extra careful and assume that at any time, someone may pull out on me. I don't live in an area like this, so this is easy for me to say, perhaps not so easy to do :dunno:

I don't see him applying the brakes at all, so my thoughts are that he wasn't looking ahead at all, perhaps just glanced at his gauges or something, and we all do that from time to time. Stuff like this can happen to any of us, so it's really hard to pass judgement on things he may have done wrong or should have done differently.
 
This talk about how we all speed and everything is great, but we don't all speed all the time. The speed limit on my street is 30 MPH, but I never break 20 MPH because I don't feel like I could safely go any faster. The same goes for most of the other streets in my neighborhood. Where I live is all curves and hills with cars parked sporadically on either side of the street. I couldn't live with myself if I hit a neighbor's kid or pet, never mind wrecking my bike because I couldn't avoid an unexpected car door, basketball, or runaway Radio Flyer. We just have to use some common sense about the environment we're riding in.


Agreed. I don't speed except when I want to be speeding... in other words, I'll do 35/40 in a 35, or I'll do 80 in a 35 once in awhile. What I don't do is 45/50 in a 35 consistanty. When I am speeding, I'm very focused and alert for those few moments and don't pick streets like the one in the vid' to do it. I mean really... am I the only one here who admits going over the limit on a bike?

My only point was that I don't think the relatively small amount of overspeed the guy was going was the cause of the accident any more than a dozen accidents I could list that the guy could have been in at 10 under.
The guy probably felt safe at the speed he was going, and I also would adjust down if I felt safety was in jeopardy. The speed limit is rather generic. It is of course the law and designed around some basic parameters, but it does not guarantee safety because it's just a number. The guy could be right at 25 and still have that accident, or...he could be extra safe and do 15 and a cat could run out in front of him. Is everyone really going to get off and push their bikes around because of what could happen at any speed?

This is an accident after all. A series of factors and timing led to an unfortunate meeting of vehicles.

For the sake of argument, one could say that the guy would have been intact if he had been going 10mph faster. I'm not advocating that, I'm just showing that this accident wasn't caused by speed and there is no speed that can guarantee not having one.

Yeah, the idea to go at a speed one feels safe at... we all do it. The video brings to the mind that if he had been going 10mph slower, then it is possible the accident would have been avoided, but if he were going 25 and the same car had pulled out like that 3 parking spaces closer to him, the result would be the same because it was the U-turn that caused the accident.

Sean
Humble opinions expressed.
 
I firmly believe that except in very very rare cases all accidents are avoidable. Every accident is a chain of events that can be broken at any time. I can honestly say that in every close call I have ever had there was some element in which I contributed to or could have anticipated.
 
Yes, I could have avoided it by riding slower in the neighborhood, and even slower around that limited sight distance turn.
 
Seems to me by the lack of reaction there was a bit of panic and really no attempt of any kind of avoidance. Maybe a loss of attention? I expect actions like those of the woman driving. I ride 40 miles everyday to and fro, I have to be on my game and anticipate the bone head behavior. I expect it & look for it. Speed as said before really needs to be in check and you as an operator need to be able to brake at those speeds. What was with the right leg being put out to brace the impact??? I believe this could have been avoided. I think it was his lack of experience, inability to anticipate trouble & control the bike without panic.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
Yes, I could have avoided it by riding slower in the neighborhood, and even slower around that limited sight distance turn.

I'm not advocating speeding here.... The fact that so many people are coming to to the conclusion that speed was a deciding factor in this accident just kind of scares me because I think the randomness of street riding dangers is being overlooked.

Let's do an experiment...

Let's say that we are going to take 5 passes at the same accident, and you're the rider. I get to be the driver and I will intentionally simulate a U turn on that street by someone who is not looking....


Pass 1: 50mph... I watch you in the rear view mirror coming but simulate a random blind U turn..... I'll hit you.

Pass 2: 40mph .... I'll hit you.

Pass 3: 25 mph... I'll hit you.

Pass 4: 10mph... I'll hit you

Pass 5: 5mph.... Likely I can still hit you.

Reverse the situation.... now you're driving the car and I'm on the bike. I bet you can hit me too almost every time. In each case, going slower will cause less damage and that's great, but it didn't avoid the unfortunate timing of the event.

The speed does not change anything other than the force of impact. This is all about timing and trajectory, and the posted speed limit could very well kill a rider, pet, or pedestrian if the timing is unfortunate enough.

Experiment # 2

Let's go to a huge empty parking lot. You ride a bike, and I'll drive a car.
The exercise is that I am the unknown and you are the responsible rider...

I am going to try to hit you. I'm going to point my car to where I think we'll intersect. I can only drive in a straight line to simulate being unaware of your presence. You can turn any way you like.

In the first run you can go as fast as you like.

In the second run you can go 25mph top speed.

In the final run you can do only 2mph.

Think of experiment #2 in terms of timing, trajectory, and target lag time. What strategy will you use to avoid getting hit?

Experiment #3

We are at a 1mi drag strip lined with 100's of identical parked all facing away from you on each side of the strip. There is a single lane between the parked cars. I am hiding in one of these car with the intent of pulling out and hitting you so I'll wait until you're close. What strategy will you use to avoid getting hit?


The point I'm trying to make here is that we are all in agreement that one should exercise safe speeds...especially when there's a greater risk of hitting a pedestrian, but never forget the randomness of what is facing you. The rider in the vid' might have missed that car if he were going slower, but also had he been going faster, or if he had decided to change to a different color of socks just before leaving his house, because ultimately the accident was caused by timing, trajectory, and a really poor driving maneuver that can happen at any time...at any speed.
What speed is it...exactly...that guarantees you can stop in time? 5? The posted speed limit is an illusion of safety.

Apply this to real world riding. If someone blocks your path completely, and you have time to see it, of course being at a lower rate of speed gives you more time to react and less impact force if you cannot avoid it. Makes total sense. If the randomness meant that you didn't have time to see it....then you're either already in the accident, or best case.... past where it would have happened. That's randomness for ya.

On the other hand, I really don't like passing a car on the highway at less than a 20mph speed difference. I don't like being beside along side people on cell phones or whatever. On a 70mph highway, that means I'm going 90 when passing. If I get past the cell phone driver who was about to swerve me into the center green and slam into a deer who just jumped out of the center green that I might have avoided at 70, again...what's the difference?

The randomness in the video is that the rider could have been going exactly 25, checking his same mirrors, sneezing, preparing his excuse for being late to work... and STILL hit the very same car had the driver of the car had one extra puff on her cigarette before pulling out....see? Feeling that this accident could have been avoided simply by going the posted speed is a dangerous illusion.

Sean
 
I'll say maybe. I'm usually pretty hyper aware riding in neighborhoods especially with that many cars parked on the side of the road, eyes up, ride towards the empty side of the road to maximize my chance of seeing and avoiding such things. Thing is she only left him shooting around the front of her car and from his lane position, way he reacted (The foot out is a positive sign of panic reaction.) he simply didn't have time. From my typical riding style, maybe, even probably. The oncoming lane was clear so he had a small escape route.

Bottom line is some could, some couldn't. Depending on the person and their riding experience it's a hard call.
 
I was just referring to the one video. Sure, there can always be another situation where there is 0 reaction time. My point is that going slower is ALWAYS going to give you more reaction time and improve your chances of accident avoidance. That said, I ride fast all the time :laugh:
 
I watch everything when riding... its like a chess game in my head. always thinking 3-4 moves ahead. Trouble ahead > curve> suv's blocking view> Tail Lights> Maybe I should slow down?
Not sure how long she has till she has right of way. With his speeding he may be at fault. I hope she has a copy of this video if it goes to court. and he is a dumba$$ for posting it.

Ride like no one knows you are there and everyone is out to get you!
 
Imo the only problem with the rider in the vid was inexperience........the tell tale signs are written all over that vid. That kinda stuff happens to most riders every time they get on their bike. I have those things happen all the time, drivers just don't see bikes, but after 30+ years of street ridng its a non-issue for me anymore, no drama at all......I just shake my head, let them finish their bonehead move, and continue my ride no problemo.
That video is just a rider learning the needed skills of street riding the hard way. One nice thing is he shared the vid so hopefully others can learn the easier way :laugh:
 
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